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Although this passage is only a small aspect of his life and the page, I believe that the fact he was condemned by the Belgian justice system for, among other things, criticizing the trafficking of women for sexual slavery, undoubtedly justifies his inclusion in this project. The rest of his biography is very gendered and unrelated, I would say, but this element, which is nonetheless noteworthy, seems to me — in my humble opinion — to legitimize this categorization. Not all men or anarchist militants were condemned for similar actions at the same time, so to speak. Aristoxène (talk) 21:37, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Cameron Dewe The prostitution bit is from myself, what the source says is that he criticized 'white female trafficking', the sexual slavery bit is added by myself to explain what 'traite des blanches' means in practical setting, but it's the concept of 'traite des blanches' that he criticizes, not prostitution per se. The source says : 'Peu après, il quitta Paris pour Bruxelles, où il fut arrêté pour délit de presse, ayant participé à la rédaction d’une brochure de François Ernest contre le bourgmestre Buis et la traite des blanches. Expulsé de Belgique, il se fixa à Roubaix en août 1885, où il devint en peu de temps un des animateurs du groupe anarchiste local.' Aristoxène (talk) 09:34, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Though I must say that if you feel it's not relevant there, no worries, get it out - I added this message somewhat for that too. Aristoxène (talk) 09:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Aristoxène: I am happy to leave the WikiProject banner there, based on what you have explained. But it does seem to be a small aspect of his life. I am also thinking of other editors who might question the WikiProject's relevance. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:48, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, let's leave him outside, if someone writes something more about this sentence or if I can find it, I'll tag you back to discuss but in that state yes, let's leave it outside. Aristoxène (talk) 09:57, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Cameron Dewe I’m taking the liberty of writing to you again because, as you’ll see, the page has developed and progressed quite a bit (although I still need to figure out what to do with the entire first section, since the initial outline isn’t very strong and maybe the Lyz Lanoy case should deserve it's own specific page). That said, I’d particularly encourage you to look at the soup-conferences, a series of events initiated by Martinet and linked (by himself in fact lol, from his introductory text which I was able to find) to feminist struggle. He was connected with Séverine, an anarchist and feminist activist of the time, who co-organized the events with him after one month of hm doing it alone. When Maitron comments on the soup-conferences, he takes the oppenness to sex workers and women struggles and as dedicated and legitimate audiences for anarchist propaganda as one of the examples showing that openness, that you wouldn't find inside and was very criticized by the Marxists. So it's not like everyone at the same period did that, again. Like even inside anarchist circles, this is not automatic - like if you check anarchist companionship you will see that it's often very male-based and male-directed ; and maybe the soup-conferences still are in many ways, but even the fact that he made the men and the women serve the food together and not just the men speak and the women serve the food. I think all of those things together kinda show someone that could be included.
I feel that if we take into account both this initiative/inspiration behind the soup-conferences and the fact that he was expelled from Belgium for criticizing female sex traficking, the project might deserve reconsideration. What do you think? Aristoxène (talk) 09:44, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Aristoxène: The WikiProjects banners that appear on an article's talk page ought to be supported by the content in the article itself, not by the content in other articles. It is this article that needs to satisfy the scope statement of any WikiProject banner that appears on the talk page. Not being a member of WikiProject Women, I haven't previously considered whether articles about men can be included in that project. However, the purpose of the project is primarily to address "the under-representation of content on Wikipedia about women", so it would seem to me that articles about men are excluded, simply because of their gender. However, other WikiProjects, such as WikiProject Feminism, or perhaps WikiProject Sexology and sexuality and its Sex work task force may be a better fit. I recommend you discuss this issue on the relevant projects' talk pages to determine if this article is in-scope of each project. Even so, the guideline WP:OVERBANNER exists to keep the number of WikiProjects that an article is a member of to a reasonable number. This article currently has six WikiProject banners, so adding a seventh needs to have a clearly demonstrated and fairly strong connection to any additional project, whic I don't think the article clearly demonstrates at the moment. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 10:42, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Czar, yes I know but often the book I can't find it and the thesis I can :( / Here the Frayne source for a-b-c it's only supporting the Maitron which kinda says the same thing I feel like, though maybe a bit differently, and d it's alone I agree. But since for a-b-c it's the same as the Maitron or like the Maitron could be left alone to source and d I mean ok, maybe we can remove it. It's fine because this page it's not 'so much' based on a thesis but for Today or Tomorrow I'm sorry but I couldn't do otherwise :( and I feel like everytime Michel does an anarchist text like a truly anarchist-centered text not like poems, the number of sources drops by 10x ; so for that one I couldn't do otherwise and I hope the page will stay but we'll see, I guess :( Aristoxène (talk) 12:40, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I see a few articles by Frayne but no monograph. If it's not needed, Maitron is usually a strong enough source on its own, if you were to remove Frayne. But ultimately it's not dire, just best practice. (If a dissertation is the only place a fact is mentioned, it also can be an indicator that sources don't consider it so noteworthy to include. We can use primary sources sparingly to fill in connective detail between secondary sources.) czar12:46, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Czar Ok, then let's leave it but I keep that in mind and it's sad because I feel like anarchism is not very studied as is should be. I don't know, like it's very strange that in French we don't have a single big work on individualists in France or even the Bonnot Gang we have like small stuff there and there but nothing working as a big reference I would say, or I don't know it yet. And also since I'm looking a lot of newspaper of the period I should say that the Révolté French archives lack in several places the actual declarations and pages that are usefull. Like L'En Dehors is one of the few newspapers that is not publicly avalaible online + the Révolte has a lot of pages missing, often when there is a declaration of Ravachol or an angry anarchist I would say - so it seems like a field that is also kinda understudied (not saying that it's as if we were doing pages on Togolese precolonial history for example, of course, but still) and it makes finding good sources harder :( But yes, I'll keep that in mind ! Aristoxène (talk) 13:06, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Czar The Maitron is bullshit. It's following Grave and it's bullshit. They say that he stopped his militanccy after the newspaper died. I am finding political militancy during the Dreyfus affair linked with massive people of the Dreyfus affair like Pressensé. There is also militancy at least until 1905 because he did stuff during the Church-State separation law. I'm sorry I'm kinda taken by time but just writing it because clearly the Maitron is abusing here. I'll add that in the next days. Aristoxène (talk) 00:22, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
