Talk:Mosman

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved. harej 08:38, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Mosman, New South Wales → Mosman — This article was recently moved to an un-disambiguated name and soon after moved back. The name "Mosman" is unique and does not need disambiguation save for compliance with the guideline at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Australia. I am not convinced that this guideline enjoys wide support given the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)/Archives/2010/August#Australian place name convention. Mattinbgn\talk 08:29, 1 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment And as mentioned above the guideline no longer enjoys anything that could be considered consensus. Is there a reason for keeping an entirely superfluous disambiguation with more weight than "We have always done it that way?" -- Mattinbgn\talk 08:56, 1 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's called status quo bias. While many people oppose the current guidelines, there was clearly no consensus to change the guidelines, either. So, what we tend to do here on Wikipedia is favor the status quo -- which in this case, means pre-emptive disambiguation. Powers T 12:32, 1 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per above comments ***Adam*** 12:38, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Mosman is a surname and "Mosman Park" (2x) and "Mossman" are placenames around Australia - I haven't even checked internationally. A disambig page would, by my count, feature at least 9 entries. Even without the guideline, this is a poor candidate for de-disambiguating. Orderinchaos 00:55, 2 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Requested move March 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Jeffrey34555 (talk) 14:28, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mosman, New South Wales → Mosman – There was a discussion 14 years ago, but time to hold it again. Already a redirect, and it might meet WP:NCAUST's Wikipedia:PRIMARYTOPIC criteria for the name to be used alone, I know it is also a Surname, but I also recommend creating an article on the surname, please vote on this aswell! Also, I know there are places around Australia called Mossman, but it is a different spelling to Mosman. Thank you Servite et contribuere (talk) 19:45, 15 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 11:12, 31 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 02:10, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Sydney and alian Wikipedians' notice board have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 11:12, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is a town in North Queensland called Mossman. According to a number of reliable sources including [1], this town was formerly spelled Mosman, but the was changed to avoid confusion with the Sydney suburb. This alone is probably grounds to keep with convention of listing the state in the article title.The names are close enough that it is conceivable that somebody looking for either of these places could get the incorrect spelling, or be searching based on historic information. Dfadden (talk) 12:05, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Dfadden I honestly don't think that Mossman in Queensland it is notable under its former name. And I also think the Mosman in Northern Sydney has long been more notable. Thank you Servite et contribuere (talk) 12:09, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There are a number of articles from National newpapers from around 1880-1920 that refer to the Queensland town as "Mosman", or interchangable as both "Mosman" and "Mossman" even within the same article. These are available via Trove. One article was particularly notable as a meeting held in the town was commented on by 3 state premiers in 1915 regarding to a trade dispute over sugar prices.[2]. Another article of note is this account of the 1887 trial of Ellen Thompson, the only woman to be hanged in Queensland and referred to in the media as "the Mosman Murderess"[3]. These articles surely confer some notabily to the town under it's former name. Furthermore this article describes the early settlement of the "Mosman valley" and surrounding district along the river of the same name during the 1880s[4]. It is also not simply a question of which town is "more notable". WP:NCAUST only states that a name without a state suffix may be used where it is the primary topic. By convention, the existence of two places with the same name means they are disambiguated. Would you expect a reader who isnt from Australia, or even from Sydney to immediately recognise which of these places is more notable? Dfadden (talk) 12:59, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Kerry Raymond I'd be interested in your thoughts on this? Dfadden (talk) 13:07, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Dfadden My honest expectation is that when most people from outside Queensland, New South Wales (Or even Australia) talk about a place called Mosman, they are referring to the Suburb on the Lower North Shore. Also, very few will know about those events that were reported in the newspapers today Servite et contribuere (talk) 13:29, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Given the similarities of the name Mosman and Mossman (and I am sure many people do not get the spelling right for either of them since there is no difference in pronunciation), it would seem that disambiguation is helpful as the person may know if they are thinking about the place in NSW or the place in QLD. I think suburb names are rather better known by those who live in that city than anyone else so I doubt the assertion that "most people ... are referring to the suburb on the Lower North Shore" extends beyond most people who live in Sydney. How many Melbourne or Brisbane suburb names are familiar to Sydney people? Or are Sydney placenames somehow magically more important than suburbs anywhere else in Australia? The whole point of disambiguation is to serve a worldwide audience of people and get them to the right article. See Wikipedia:Disambiguation. Kerry (talk) 22:44, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Servite et contribuere, I dont doubt you believe most people searching for Mosman are searching for information about the Sydney suburb. However, I'd encourage you to keep WP:BUTIKNOWABOUTIT in mind, or find some data to support your claims. Dfadden (talk) 11:16, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Dfadden I didn't say they were searching for information about the Sydney suburb. I said they are searching about the suburb on the Lower North Shore, which is still Sydney, but you know what I mean, it is better to include Lower North Shore Servite et contribuere (talk) 16:47, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - long overdue, this is by far the primary topic and Mosman has redirected there since time immemorial. Unlike the US, unnecessary addition of state names where they aren't needed for disambiguation isn't encouraged in Australia and this, along with many other Sydney suburbs, should be at its base name.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:12, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support - per WP:NCAUST. I think the different spelling of the Queensland suburb is enough to disambiguate the two places, especially with the hatnote there. GMH Melbourne (talk) 23:09, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support: WP:ONLYTWO applies to overcome the problem with the similarly named Queensland article. Minxlyn (talk) 23:30, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
allikas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mosman,_New_South_Wales