The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Additional discussion regarding the article and its content can continue on its talk page if desired. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:10, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Zulfi Hoxha (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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non notable TeeVeeed (talk) 14:21, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 14:29, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 14:29, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 14:29, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iraq-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 14:29, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Syria-related deletion discussions. Lepricavark (talk) 14:29, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, not notable and contains WP:OR and trivial. Wikipedia is not a newspaper. Kierzek (talk) 14:48, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Article needs improvement, however subject is covered in depth for his allegedly senior role in IS. Assessing WP:SOLDIER for IS is difficult (though he allegedly is in a senior role and possibly the top American officer), however subject has in-depth coverage meeting GNG, e.g.: A New American Leader Rises in ISIS, Atlantic, Is Zulfi Hoxha – or Abu Hamza al-Amriki – ISIS’ new American leader?, Al-Arabiya, The ISIS 'Senior Commander' Who Grew Up on the Jersey Shore, NBC Phili, ISIS Video Shows New Weapons, ‘American’ Urging Attacks in U.S., NBC.Icewhiz (talk) 15:02, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete (AFD nominating editor) Non notable BLP one instance of alledged notariety based on mention in one Atlantic arcticle. (all other news refs are based on this one recent article). The main character involved in the FBI investigation who was sentenced to prison is not even mentioned. Guy allegeddly joined isis and appeared in propaganda video. At the very most merge with another article or stubify.TeeVeeed (talk) 16:02, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nope - Also Covered in May 2017, well before the Atlantic article in 2018 - see - NBC, Newsweek. Propaganda exponents may be quite notable (e.g. Iva Toguri D'Aquino or William Joyce), and in any event it would seem that openly broadcasting your identity would seem to preclude most BLP concerns.Icewhiz (talk) 16:08, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hmm-good job searching with his other name but this is still the alleged one and only propaganda video incident. Do we have articles for every actor in every commercial for instance? I had an article deleted about a local figue who appeared on 3 seasons of the NJ Housewives and had multiple years worth of news mentions for example. The fact that he is "allegedly" notorius for "alledgedly" one thing still makes me say that this is a non notable BLP, but again I would agree with a merge to another topic or stubification. The use of "alledged" in all articles/sources affects this as well.TeeVeeed (talk) 16:42, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • Per multiple source (including the Atlantic and subsequent reporting - which is basing these on US government statements) - he is allegedly a senior commander in IS, and a major recruiter. This is well beyond "appearing in one video" (he actually seems to have allegedly appeared in several).Icewhiz (talk) 17:00, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User:TeeVeeed You can't vote twice you already voted when you proposed it for deletion.--Shrike (talk) 12:50, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Struck duplicate !vote from the nominator; the nomination itself is considered as the delete !vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:09, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I added a May 2017 story about him from La Stampa to the article. After reading La Stampa and The Atlantic, I confess to being genuinely shocked. Margate City, New Jersey is, after all, the tamest beach town in the entire world. More to the point, this is WP:SIGCOV of a notable jihadi.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:24, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Another subject written about because of the news; we get it, terrorism sells papers/earns subscribers but editors are supposed to know better and be above that. Of course, I predict a few editors will automatically !vote keep regardless of the policies we must apply to such an individual because of their emotions on this topic. Regardless, this is yet another case of a BLP being fueled by speculation and the same ol' rehashed story that shows no indication of encyclopedic value. Go figure.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 18:33, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Also Note Hoxha's connection with the culprits in the 2015 Boston beheading plot, detailed in The Atlantic article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:37, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes noted. I would be in favor of merging this guy to that article. They alledgedly recruited him and sponsored his trip overseas to join isis, but he really has not done anything except alledgedly appear in propaganda. Also yes emotions, and no real notability here.TeeVeeed (talk) 19:37, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The sources in the article and those identified and / or added by Icewhiz and E.M.Gregory all establish notability. Alansohn (talk) 18:56, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • No-that link doesn't even work haha.TeeVeeed (talk) 19:42, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• This is upsetting and I am just going to go ahead and say that I have a COI here and every other LOCAL editor here does too if they really think about it for a minute. I am not editing this topic from this point on. TeeVeeed (talk) 20:06, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• User:TeeVeeed, It is exceedingly bad form not only to WP:BLUDGEON the process as you are doing, but to delete well-sourced, relevant information from the page as you did here: [1]. The source was an article in La Stampa, translated and republished by the BBC, it was linked to Proquest - which is paywalled. I hate paywalls too. But a paywall is no excuse for deleting a source and accuse an fellow editor of OR.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:14, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, obviously notable subject.--Zoupan 01:41, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The coverage is shallow and passing. Not every person appearing in a propaganda video is worth having a seperate article on.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:35, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• WP:HEY, there is INDEPTH, WP:SIGCOV in articles in The Atlantic, The Star-Ledger and The Philadelphia Inquirer now on the page, a quick gNews search brings up more reported coverage with journalists digging up the details of his childhood and young adult years. This in addition to his connection with the 2015 Boston beheading plot and the international coverage of his jihad videos in May 2017.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:52, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• More manipulation of the sources. There is no connection to the Boston plot. The Boston plotters helped fund his trip to Syria; Hoxha in no way, however, participated in their plan.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 17:34, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• The "connection" is that the plotters were in contact with Hohxa to the extent that, according to the article in The Atlantic, they raised money to fund his travel to Syria via Turkey, helped make the arrangements, and he accepted the money they raised and the arrangements for travel and contacting ISIS.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:11, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• That accurately summarizes what I just said with more words, yes. You can't make the claim This in addition to his connection with the 2015 Boston beheading plot when he never planned, funded, participated, or (to the best of our knowledge) even knew about the plot. The most you can accurately say is he knew the plotters for an unrelated reason which equates to absolutely nothing notability-wise. But, please, push another narrative that doesn't represent the sources faithfully.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 23:23, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete:- All of this article's sources are based on a single article of The Atlantic. Some of the top newspaper are yet to publish his story, editor could hold NYT as example. I know and agree that he got deepth coverage from media. But think once, if his story turned false tommorrow then it will hardly have any notability. So, I think the topic needs further confirmation and verification. Until then, it doesn't deserve a separete article. Bests Ominictionary (talk) 20:56, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Fact check Ominictionary is mistaken. There was a round of international coverage in May 2017 - 8 months before The Atlantic ran its story. Also note the INDEPTH stories in the Philadelphia Inquirer, the The Star-Ledger and other media that were inspired by the story in The Atlantic to dig into Hoxha's childhood and youth.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:07, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:TOOSOON / WP:NOTNEWS. This is based on the story in the Atlantic and local coverage, also driven by Atlantic. Such as: [2], with routine soundbites from his coworker (yes, he was weird) and his mum (we are very upset). I would argue that domestic “terrorist” James Alex Fields is more notable than this guy, but Fields does not have a stand-alone article. When it comes to Hoxha, no apparent lasting significance just yet. There’s no suitable redirect target so it’s a “delete” for me. --K.e.coffman (talk) 03:00, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• K.E.coffman fails to mention extensive coverage of his video appearances in the spring/summer of 2017, in European media in several languages. Also, the coverage in the Philadelphia Inquirer, the The Star-Ledger, and local papers researched and verified the sort of biographical facts (birth, family, schools attended, and work history) that makd a subject pass WP:ANYBIO.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:33, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• ISIS releases a lot of videos and they get covered. I don’t see a need for a bio in this case. Yes, the subject exists, but he’s not encyclopedically relevant just yet. I don’t see in-depth, significant coverage here, hence my “delete” vote. Hope this clarifies my position. K.e.coffman (talk)

• Keep: When your sources are worldwide and multilingual and include among others
  • The Atlantic
  •The Star Ledger
  • NBC 10 Philly
  • NBC News proper
  • Newsweek
  • BBC
  • La Stampa, and the
  • Philadelphia Inquirer,
  to say that something is "not notable" is untenable. Meets WP:GNG. XavierItzm (talk) 12:57, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.