The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Inclusion in Encyclopedia Britannica is a very convincing argument. Randykitty (talk) 14:15, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Vorontsov (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Follow-up to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Khilkov (recently unanimously deleted). Relies on WP:ONESOURCE, russianartdealer.com, which is a WP:SPS; WP:OR; fails WP:GNG. Rule of thumb: if a Russian noble family claims descent from Rurik (or in this case "a Varangian nobleman named Šimon") without a source, that's a red flag. (No objection to keeping Category:Vorontsov family for now; this "article" just adds nothing of value). NLeeuw (talk) 11:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Royalty and nobility, and Russia. NLeeuw (talk) 11:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. There are articles about the family in Britannica (1911), Brockhaus & Efron and Nordisk familjebok and that seems enough to pass GNG, although I am somewhat concerned about the fact that all the above articles have a very short introduction about the family in general, and then continue with individual biographies. In any case, they also contain some references, which could be used to expand the article. For example: The family has published very extensive archives: [1] and there seems to be a book about the family: Ogarkov (1892) Vorontsovy. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 13:37, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Verifiably notable noble family in encyclopedias, eg  "Воронцовы" . Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary (in Russian). 1906.. Wiipedians simply don't care. --Altenmann >talk 18:35, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. The article in Russian Wikipedia has a ton of references, if one is interested in improving. As anyone even slightly interested in Russian history knows, this family was the "crème de la crème" of the Russian aristocracy from the reign of Empress Elizabeth until the end of the empire. Ghirla^-трёп- 16:50, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the way, its origins are actually obscure (as was shown in a well-known Paris litigation between Prince P. V. Dolgorukov and Prince Vorontsov). It was the Velyaminov family that claimed (for many centuries) descent from Shimon the Varangian; whether the Vorontsov family is in fact a branch of the Velyaminov family (as they claimed) is a moot question. --Ghirla^-трёп- 16:51, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per above. The family's claims to descend from a certain historical figure is irrelevant to their notability - it's a classic red herring since almost every living person today probably has at least one or two notable ancestors (those khans, philandering kings, and boyars got around). There are several attested notable members, and that's all that counts, pardon the pun. I also note that their palace in Odesa, according to Google Maps, has survived the recent Russian invasion and drone attacks. Bearian (talk) 04:20, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.