The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. A redirect to Military of Bangladesh as a plausible search term seems appropriate, and I will create such a redirect after deletion.--Kubigula (talk) 03:35, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bangladesh Forces (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Pretty much a hoax. There's no such thing as a Bangladesh Forces as presented in the article. Bangladesh Army, Bangladesh Navy and Bangladesh Air Force are called Bangladesh Forces, of course, just like any other military force in the world. Also the first of Bangladesh forces, the Mukti Bahini is called by that name, like all other military forces from Bangladesh. A pretty generic name, not an official designation, and obviously not material for an encyclopedic entry. Clearly violates WP:OR and WP:SOAP. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 08:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bangladesh-related deletion discussions. —Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 08:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Delete - this is just a POV fork from the articles Mukti Bahini and List of Sectors in Bangladesh Liberation War. The creator of this fork, Muraad Kahn (and his anon IP 98*), has similarly created other POV forks when he was unable to put his unreferenced/POV info into existing articles. According to Banglapedia and other print encyclopedias, the pro-liberation resistance forces in the 1971 war was known as Mukti Bahini. [1]. --Ragib (talk) 08:31, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. —Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 09:45, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Delete In addition to the above, the article appeares to be redunted to the Bangladesh Army, Navy, and Air Force articles. We really do not need this article. TomStar81 (Talk) 09:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. —Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 09:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. —Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 09:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• DeleteMerge with Military of Bangladesh: The author himself has mentioned in the talk page that the views in the article are substentiated by "official documents" which have never been published. This makes the article an original research. Arman ^(Talk) 10:37, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After analyzing a bit a Merge with Military of Bangladesh seems to make more sense. Some part of the current article may be retained as a "History" section under Military of Bangladesh. Arman ^(Talk) 08:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After analyzing the article and its talk page, as well as Help:Merging and moving pages and other policy pages, it looks like a good idea to delete this article and incorporate any redeemable information, as in supported by secondary sources in publication, into relevant articles (which may include the military of Bangladesh article but need not to stick to exclusively). Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 13:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Military of Bangladesh of Bangladesh as a plausible search term unless reliable, published sources confirming the accuracy of some or all of this information can be found. If that occurs, I would suggest merging to Military of Bangladesh and any relevant subarticles, including but not limited to Mukti Bahini and Military history of Bangladesh. -- saberwyn 11:06, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing to merge or redirect. Every last bit of reliable and credible information in the article already is included in the articles you suggest. Threst of the article has not an aorta of credibility, has zero support from published documents and is very much a hoax. On top of that this term, Bangladesh Forces, has no existence as an official/formal boy/term. According to WP:NOTDICDEF, this entry shouldn't even exist as a popular term for Bangladesh Military (in Wiktionary may be, but not here). There's nothing to merge or redirect. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 11:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I will concede that there may be nothing to merge. However, "Bangladesh Forces" is a generic term that is used (correctly or incorrectly) to refer to the Bangladeshi military of the present (current Army, Navy, Airforce) and the past (the Mukti Bahini). By redirecting to Military of Bangladesh, people using this generic term (correctly or incorrectly) will be taken to where they can find the information they want. -- saberwyn 11:38, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmmmmmm... good point. Shall I go forward with the last suggestion (redirecting to Bangladesh Military)? Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 11:43, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It can wait until the end of the discussion. -- saberwyn 07:22, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, i'm trusting aditya and ragib on this issue. --Soman (talk) 15:00, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as WP:HOAX --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 05:24, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep the article has merits and ample scope for independent expansion and would not constitute a POV fork. The real problem with this article is that it lacks sources. The creator of this article is a long time (and occasionally disruptive) editor with a history of productive edits on this and allied subjects. The Mukti Bahini article itself has the following comment in the intro "Subsequently by mid-April 1971 the former members of East Pakistan armed forces formed the "Bangladesh Armed Forces" and M A G Osmani assumed the command of the same." from which we may infer that the article in question is limiting itself to the EP Armed Forces which were then in a loyalty transition phase, and which were not part of Mukti Bahini which was an irregulars outfit (and had a significant Indian Armed Forces component) as opposed to these forces which were comprised of the regulars. This article is therefore necessary to distinguish the Bangladesh Armed Forces sections from the Mukti Bahini (which was essentially an Indian Armed Forces) operations. A comparable analogue would be between the Indian National Army and the Indian Army during WW-II Annette46 (talk) 11:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for quoting from the Mukti Bahini article. But, I am sure that you realize - the armed forces of Bangladesh was never officially called Bangladesh forces. It is just a general term to connote all forms of Bangladesh military forces according to the context. What you perhaps do not realize is that Indian National Army or the Azad Hind Fauz was identified by that name by both the members and command of that Army, as well as numerous other bodies, inclduing their friends and enemies. The same cannot be said of Bangladesh Forces. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 18:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have also reviewed the TalkPage of User:Murad_Kahn and most of his edits. He may not play by Wiki rules <understatement> :-) but he knows his subject and his (unsourced) opinions should be taken into account given the hostility of a cabal (events of Sept 2007) formed against him. I also see that nobody is taking offence to the usage of the term Bangladesh Armed Forces on many BD-1971 pages, so this article could be a Rename/Move considering that the term Bangladesh Armed Forces is a generic and not limited only to BD Army/Navy/AF but also paramilitaries like BD Rifles etc. Annette46 (talk) 11:56, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The use of the words cabal and offense are both interesting and worth noting. The former looks like a deliberate slander, the latter may be addressed here. Perhaps you wanted to mean that no one is "objecting" to the use of Bangladesh Armed Forces. But, does that really mean anything? No one is objecting to the use of "US Forces" in various articles (see: Iraq War, Enduring Freedom - Abuses by US Forces in Afghanistan and more), but the article on US military is titled Military of the United States which is pretty much an official designation, and is recognized as so. Try the find the US Forces and you'll be redirected to 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

So which article do you want this to redirect to? Mukti bahini? Military of Bangladesh? Bangladesh Army/Navy/Air Force? It can't possibly redirect all of them, and a redirect page would probably be equally useless (unless we plan to create disambiguation pages for every misconception in thw world). Finally, please, note that using inconsistencies in the Wikipedia is really not an argument. It only shows where we need to iron out the inconsistencies. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 18:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't gone through the user's historical edits but Wikipedia is not a place for giving one's own opinions (whether the editor is knowledgable or not) especially if they are unsourced. → AA ^(talk) — 09:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong delete - It seems like a creative imagination of someone who even doesn't have enough knowledge on Bangladesh. A pure case of WP:POV. I do agree that this article tries to link back to Mukti Bahini but that is again a violation of WP:NOR. So, overall a WP:HOAX. Cheers. -- Niaz^{(Talk • Contribs)} 19:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete after merging any sourceable info into the appropriate articles (e.g. Military of Bangladesh, Mukti Bahini, etc.). I have waited a while before commenting in the hope that some (one?) source would be added to justify its existence but in the absence of that would tend to agree with others who suggest it is a hoax. → AA ^(talk) — 09:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I got my dad to read this and the related articles, He confirmed the Indian Army's role in Mukti Bahini and the called this absolute bunkum. But using his word for it would not be allowed, why should it be when the shoe is on the other foot. ChiragPatnaik (talk) 19:27, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment It is difficult to decide« PuTTY^SchOOL 14:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not much difficult when you consider that it's just a common noun that denotes "all" Bangladeshi forces and has no official status as a term. The article in its current form says it's an alternative term for Mukti Bahini, which seemingly is a pure hoax, unsupported by any published source. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Delete If this document exists, then it can confuse readers to think that there was an org with this title which had crtitical contribution in Indepedence of Bangladesh. As far as my knowledge goes, and since the document does not list any verifiable references, I consider this as a hoax/OR. Also, since this article is practially unreferenced, I do not support merging. --GDibyendu (talk) 19:42, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.