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This 1823 church replaced the 1792 building and was constructed on Hayden's land.
This 1823 church replaced the 1792 building and was constructed on Hayden's land.
Created by Maximilian775 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 11 past nominations.

Maximilian775 (talk) 16:19, 26 February 2025 (UTC).[reply]

  • The hook is complicated and I don't see how the mention of Basil Hayden whiskey adds to the hook (and in any case that part may not meet WP:DYKINT anyway since readers may not be familiar with that brand and the mention seems non-essential). Suggesting some trimmed versions:
ALT1 ... that the construction of Holy Cross Church, the first Catholic church west of the Allegheny Mountains, was organized by an alcoholic priest?
ALT2 ... that the construction of Holy Cross Church in Kentucky was organized by an alcoholic priest?
ALT3 ... that the Holy Cross Church in Kentucky was built on land donated by the namesake of a whiskey company?
I've also taken the liberty of changing "building" to "construction" to avoid confusion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:47, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's playing on irony, making the hook more interesting. Maximilian775 (talk) 18:51, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It probably wouldn't fly per WP:DYKTRIM, and the extra details are likely to only make the reader more confused or disinterested than interested. The original hook has been struck. Each of the details could probably work as standalone hooks (I've also proposed an ALT3 that mentions just the whiskey company), but combined together the hook seems unwieldy and complex. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:10, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
ALT4 "... that Holy Cross Church, the first Catholic church west of the Allegheny Mountains, was built on land donated by the namesake of Basil Hayden whiskey?" How's this Maximilian775 (talk) 23:37, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A bit on the wordy side (and I'm not convinced that Basil Hayden needs to be mentioned by name), but I guess we can let the reviewer decide. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:52, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Considering that Hayden not only donated the land, but also was functionally the leader of the early Kentucky settlers, along with the cultural import that the bourbon industry has in this part of the state, I find it appropriate. I appreciate your -- if grudging -- allowance for at least two of the three connections I wanted to make in this DYK to remain. Maximilian775 (talk) 16:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
To make things clear: the mention of Hayden (by name) for you is non-negotiable? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:22, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't nessecarily say that. I'm working to compromise, and this revised hook is substantially shorter than my initial one. ALT3 natually raises a question of "who", and per WP:DYKINT's statements of "we want people to see the new articles our volunteers have put time and effort into crafting" (which I think easily applies not just to DYK articles but articles concerning the topic / related items more broadly) and "Make sure to provide any necessary context for your hook; don't assume everyone worldwide is familiar with your subject" -- having a mention and a hyperlink of Hayden does also provide more context for the hook.
If the shortening of the hook at the expense of the above is a non-negotiable to you, then I suppose I could be fine with ::ALT5 ... that the Holy Cross Church in Kentucky was built on land donated by the namesake of a brand of whiskey? (Slight modification in that BH is a brand owned by a company, not a company itself. I think I made that typo, my apologies. Maximilian775 (talk) 18:29, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have two concerns about it. Not only do I think that the mention of the brand itself is unnecessary in this case, but I feel that linking might divert readers away from the church's article. I understand that you seem to really want the mention of the whiskey brand to be there but it might not be the safest option in this case. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:38, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I acknowledge that you have personal concerns about it. However, I don't see how any part of alt5 (edited and re-numbered for our clarity) violates any part of WP:DYK. Unless there is an express violation of those guidelines in alt5 (Which, mind you, is verbatim a hook that you yourself proposed, with the simple addition of a hyperlink), I see no reason for my version of alt5 to be modified. Maximilian775 (talk) 16:28, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just curious: is there a particular why you want Basil Hayden's to be linked or mentioned in particular and why you don't seem to be fond of the other options that aren't about it? Narutolovehinata5 (talk ·contributions) 08:22, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I believe I've explained that upthread -- and besides, this hook is 100% written by you, every word of it. I'm not sure what the issue is, but if there is one it's concerning the hook that *you* made. Maximilian775 (talk) 15:44, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Holy_Cross_Church_(Marion_County,_Kentucky)
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