So User:Moxy raises the point that there are too many images in the conflicts section of this article which makes it harder for phone users to access the article.

He proposes we get rid of them all. Personally I am not against his idea as long as it does not affect the usefulness of the article and as long as the majority think it's a good idea.

However User:Dasomm, proposes a compromise. We split the article into 4.

1. One article on the U.S. conflicts in the 18th and 19th century. (There were 5 conflicts in the 18th century so we combine the 2.)
2. One article on the U.S. conflicts in the 20th century.
3. One article on the U.S. conflicts in the 21st century.
4. One article connecting the other 3 called "List of wars involving the United States" with a brief explanation of this connector article and a link to the other 3 articles. This would do a few things: 1. It would still allow us to create images if we so want. 2. It would make it so that it will be easier for phone users can read the articles and find the information they need. For at least 2 weeks barring any opposition we will not do the splitting until everyone has had a chance to discuss. If there is not new discussion after 2 weeks we will split up the article.

Historyguy1138 (talk) 18:18, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Support A split would be best (great idea) - as the pictures are not the main problem - each flag is an image that needs to load from a template that is causing timeout error for some. Most of the world does not get a new phone every year.....in fact the time between buys is getting longer [1]...or internet speeds that will not time out in 10sec.Moxy🍁 18:37, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. Happy you agree Moxy.

Let's give everyone 2 weeks from the last point of discussion to be fair to the other editors and upon common consensus we make the change. (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 18:45, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Support As I said, this article is too long with too many pictures and in following years will be even longer (lets hope not). Lets split the article, I am glad Moxy also agree. Dasomm (talk) 18:43, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Split into the main American eras ? Political eras of the United States Moxy🍁 18:48, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that can be also good. Dasomm (talk) 18:50, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am not opposed to the idea of a further delineation per se Moxy. But I want to be clear in my understanding of your delineation of political era.

You are talking about the 7 party systems in and the pre constitution system of the 2nd Continental Congress and the Articles of Confederation yes?

If so we should definitely consolidate the pre constitution system and the 1st party system.

That being said with that delineation, I'm fine breaking it down that way if we get a consensus from others. Historyguy1138 (talk) 20:34, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear there's only five defined eras.... Just noticing on the linked page that there is a 6th and 7th.... That would be original research in my view. Moxy🍁 02:06, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just checked it. Yeah makes sense to me. The 6th and 7th have no citations, and 7th in particular seems speculative.

Though I think if we do this we should merge the pre party system revolutionary era, 1789[a]–1801: Federalist Era/1st party system, and the 1801–1861: Democratic Era/2nd part system, since the 1st 2 only have a few wars in them. What do you think? Historyguy1138 (talk) 14:34, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think of that set up? Under those conditions? That means we would have 5 articles:

1. One article connected the other 4 called "List of wars involving the United States" with a brief explanation of this connector article and a link to the other 4 articles.

2. A combination of 3 eras between :

a. pre partisan era (1775-1788)

b. Federalist Era (1789–1801)

c. Democratic Era (1801–1861)

We would call the Article List of wars involving the United States in the Federalist and Democratic era.

3. Republican Era (1861–1933)

We would call the Article List of wars involving the United States in the Republican Era.

4. New Deal Democratic Era (1933–1969)

We would call the Article List of wars involving the United States in the New Deal Democratic Era.

5. Divided Government Era (1969–Present)

We would call the Article List of wars involving the United States in the New Divided Government Era. Historyguy1138 (talk) 03:45, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, splitting this article up into categories help organize the duration and timeline of the wars easier. Rager7 (talk) 03:15, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. What do you think of the connector article? I think that would be useful as well. Historyguy1138 (talk) 04:54, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, however I feel that the New Deal era time period should go up the the 1980s and then then 5th era could be about the Reagan Era. Rager7 (talk) 02:19, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with that per se, but it would depend on 2 things.

1. If everyone else is cool with it.
2. Is that what most historians consider those eras? I don't know personally, I have not formally studied how they categorize them.

Historyguy1138 (talk) 02:28, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I say personally, the New Deal Era lasted from 1933-1981 and the Regan Era started from 1981-2016. People debate that we are under a new system under Trump but to be safe. We could say the Reagan Era goes from 1981 to the present. Rager7 (talk) 03:03, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I mean that's fine by me if we want to do that, but just so it doesn't look like we are organizing these articles arbitrarily do you think you can adjust the Political eras of the United States, so that we have somewhat of a baseline/ precedence for organizing these articles? Historyguy1138 (talk) 03:20, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

By adjusting, do you mean by re formatting the time periods in the Political eras of the United States article? Rager7 (talk) 03:22, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps. Whatever you feel is necessary to get the message to the readers, as long as it has verifiable citations.

If there is more than one way to categorize these eras that historians have used, then maybe you can create a separate category in that article that shows a different way of organizing American political eras.

However you want to do it. Again I feel you are more knowledgable in this area than I am. (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 03:30, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we should split it by centuries as I said at the beginnig, will be more easy to understand it for visitors outside the US and for people who lack knowledge or understanding of American eras. Dasomm (talk) 21:18, 7 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm personally fine with either as long as we are consistent and clear. Historyguy1138 (talk) 18:17, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am thinking that for the connector article it should say this:

These are a series of

dynamic list

s and may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by

adding missing items

with

reliable sources

.

These are list of military conflicts, that United States have been involved in. There are currently 123 military conflicts on this list, 5 of which are ongoing. These include major conflicts like the American Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Mexican–American War, the American Civil War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II and the Gulf War. It also includes US involvement in widespread periods of conflict like the Indian Wars, the Cold War (including the Korean War and the Vietnam War), and the War on Terror (including the Iraq War, the War in Afghanistan, and others).

Five military engagements encompassing four wars, all of which are interventions, currently involve the US: the Yemeni Civil War, the Somali Civil War, the Syrian Civil War, and the Gaza War.

Then there would be links to each article.

For each article it would say this:

This is a dynamic list and may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by adding missing items with reliable sources.

This article is part of a wider series of articles concerning the various military conflicts involving the United States.

Then there would be a link to the connector article.

What do you guys think?

Historyguy1138 (talk) 19:33, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, good, I agree. Dasomm (talk) 21:55, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If we do this should we leave this article alone and craft 4 draft articles and then delete this one? Historyguy1138 (talk) 00:59, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello wiki editors. Thank you all for your input. I think we have so far we have more or less civilly reached a consensus that this article should be split.

Here are some questions to consider on where we go from here and how we should do it?

1. Should we give people more time to respond to this and/or should we put a notification on this page? ----
2. If we do this should we leave this article alone and craft 4 draft articles and then delete this one when we are ready to launch? ----
3. For the split page should we come up with a list of criteria for inclusion on these articles as a guideline for future inclusions? In the past more or less how the criteria as it has been explained to me before is more or less as followed: ----a. Technically speaking the United States has only declared war 5 times in the American Revolution, the War of 1812, the Spanish American War, WW1, and WW2. This would leave the Vietnam, Korean, Afghanistan, the Native American Wars, Banana Wars, Civil War, and Iraq wars in addition to other smaller conflicts out of the equation if we went by that criteria. So we focus on military conflicts involving the United States Military, even small ones. ----b. There are other separate, but related articles such as List of rebellions in the United States, List of massacres in the United States, and list of Family feuds in the United States. The User:WeatherWriter is also spearheading a series of draft articles on attacks on the united states. There's also a list called List of conflicts in the United States, but that list is more of a broad list of any type of violent action in the U.S. larger than a generic murder. ----c. Broadly speaking we don't focus on rebellions, single terrorist attacks on the U.S.A., riots, assassinations, labor wars, state wars, gang wars, as much as military conflicts involving the United States military (U.S Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Airforce, Coast Guard (when acting in a military capacity), Space Force, the United States Intelligence Agencies (when acting in a miliary capacity [for instance the Special Activities Center]), the United States Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, NOAA Commissioned Officer Corps, Merchant Marines, and U.S. private military companies (PMCs). ---- ----As a few examples for criteria we do not include: We do not include the Whiskey Rebellion, the Bundy Standoffs, the slave rebellions, the Waco Siege, the Ruby Ridge Siege, or the Bonus Army protest and the Business Plot, (the civil war and Bleeding Kansas taken together were on a whole other level so that is a notable exception) (also territorial rebellions such as the Philippine–American War, Moro War, Mormon Wars, or the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party insurgency are exceptions). No terrorist attacks like the Black Tom Bombing of 1916, the Preparedness Day bombing, Weather Underground bombings, or the 1983 Beirut barracks bombings. No riots the L.A. Riots (which including the use of the military, but was a riot, and single attacks) or the Battle of Liberty Place. No labor wars such as the Great Railroad Strike or the Coal Wars which can be considered a type of rebellion, even if the United States military were involved. No state or local wars such as the Toledo War or the Battle of Athens. No Feuds like the Hatfield's and McCoy's. No gang wars like the Tong Wars or the Castellammarese War. ---- ----
4. Should we keep the format the same in terms of the body of the articles (except of course that we are splitting the articles up into centuries)? ----
5. Just to be clear are we are all in agreement to split the article into 4 based on the centuries, combine the 18th and 19th centuries, and create one connecting article that brings the other 3 together? What are your thoughts friends? (:

Historyguy1138 (talk) 19:53, 14 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Dasomm, Rager7, .Moxy🍁

What do you guys think? (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 19:07, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Historyguy1138 No.1, I prefer letting others having more to time to fully form their opinions before doing consensus on this article reformatting. Rager7 (talk) 23:58, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How much time do we give? Historyguy1138 (talk) 02:54, 19 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As much time as possible. Rager7 (talk) 00:44, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes move forward..... as of now many people can't access the article. Moxy🍁 00:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, as Moxy said, lets move forward, there was enough time for discussion. As you said @Historyguy1138, (4) keep the format same and (5) lets split the article into 4 based on the centuries, combine the 18th and 19th centuries, and create one connecting article that brings the other 3 together. It will be more easy to understand it for visitors outside the US and for people who lack knowledge or understanding of American eras. I think. you also agree with this @Historyguy1138, so you can start with editing. Dasomm (talk) 12:03, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree yes. But I do suggest we leave this current page up while we are working on the drafts of the other 4 articles.

@Dasomm can you please leave an edit on this page notifying everyone that we are working on splitting the page into 4 and to come to this page so they can get the links to the new draft articles as we build them.

We will archive this article when we are readying to launch all 4 articles. Sounds good?

Also I have created 4 sandboxes that anyone here is welcome to work on with me:

User:Historyguy1138/sandbox4 (Future connection/Main Article for List of wars involving the United States)

User:Historyguy1138/sandbox5 (List of wars involving the United States from the 18th and 19th centuries)

User:Historyguy1138/sandbox6 (List of wars involving the United States from the 20th century)

User:Historyguy1138/sandbox7 (List of wars involving the United States from the 21st century)

I will personally start with the connector article and I will not publish any of them till we reach a general consensus that we are all generally satisfied with the results for those of us who are participating in this enterprise.

Rager7, .Moxy🍁

Thank you guys I think this will both be fun on a personal level, a good compromise that generally meets all of our desires, and will be a useful and perhaps interesting tool for our readers to use. Historyguy1138 (talk) 13:49, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ok guys I think I am more or less finished.

Please review each article and let me know what you think. Please use the articles talk pages if it is about a particular aspect of that article or if it is about this project in general talk about it here.

Let's make sure we are all satisfied before we publish and time it so we try and do everything more or less simultaneously.

Where do we go from here? Do we delete this List first or label the connecting list temporary as (List of wars involving the United States) and then delete the old version? Historyguy1138 (talk) 20:14, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Moxy, can you give us the green light? You are the most experienced editor here. I think Historyguy1138 did a good job and he is ready to publish it. Dasomm (talk) 01:12, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree good job done thumbs up. Moxy🍁 01:27, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks guys.

Moxy

🍁

Should we publish 1st and then delete the old version? I can just title the connector article List of wars involving the United States (New Version)

Historyguy1138 (talk) 01:50, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's up to you :) Dasomm (talk) 10:57, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. I will publish them first and then label the new article the (New Version) and then we can delete this article.

If you can though if there is some type of notification or template we can use to let people know this article is going to be deleted soon, please put it there. But I will leave that to your prerogative. Historyguy1138 (talk) 13:35, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]