Article promoted by Matarisvan (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 18:20, 23 March 2025 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

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Nominator(s): Parsecboy (talk)

Roon-class cruiser (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

• Featured article candidates/Roon-class cruiser/archive1

Another article that has sat, languishing, waiting for me to get back into the A-class game ;) This is part of the Armored cruisers of Germany Featured Topic, and after this one, there'll only be five more articles to feed through ACR (and then FAC) before we get that fun little icon. Another bit of trivia: this article is one of the first articles on German warships I created, way back in August 2007; safe to say the article has come a long way since then. Thanks to all who take the time to review the article! Parsecboy (talk) 21:15, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this soon. Hog Farm _Talk 00:04, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't forgotten about this; please ping me when Pendright's queries have been addressed. Hog Farm _talk 03:43, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, I had gotten sidetracked with overhauling Battleship to keep its FA star last week, and had intended to come back here to address Pendright's comments today. No worries at all. Parsecboy (talk) 17:10, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• "With the rudder turned to its maximum extent, the ships lost up to 60 percent speed." - do the sources indicate how this compares to other designs of the time? It's hard to tell if this is normal or particularly poor; I suspect the latter.
  • Unfortunately, Groner doesn't say - just looking at the figures for other German warships of the period, it seems to have been comparable for ships of this size; SMS Blücher was slightly better at only 55% loss, but the other armored cruisers were the same as the Roons (which makes sense, since they're all developmentally related), as were the battlecruisers. The Bremen-class cruisers only lost 35%, for example, but they were significantly smaller. The Kaiser-class battleships were a bit worse at 66% loss.
• "Steam was provided to the engines by sixteen coal-fired water-tube boilers built by Düsseldorf-Ratinger Röhrenkesselfabrik (Dürr). Each boiler had 4 fireboxes for a total of 48." - I'm a bit confused by this - 4 fireboxes with 16 boilers would be 64 fireboxes
  • Apparently the math wasn't mathing, as the kids say!
• "The design staff projected that the ships would gain 0.5 knots (0.93 km/h; 0.58 mph) in speed over the earlier cruisers" - and we're later told that the Roon class had a top rated speed of knots. But our GA-class article on the Prinz Adalbert class has 20.5 as the highest rated speed of any of those ships. Do the sources attempt to reconcile this at all?
  • Dodson states the intended speed was 22 knots - clarified in the text
• "Design work commenced in 1916 to convert the ship into a seaplane tender; work was planned to last from 1917 to 1918 during a period of 20 months." - this doesn't seem to be quite the same as "In 1918, the design staff prepared plans to convert Roon into a seaplane tender based on earlier conversions that included the light cruiser Stuttgart." If the work has planned to begin in 1917, wouldn't the plans have been prepared before 1918? I can think of some ways that this would be resolved, but I think this could use clarification in the article.
  • Good point - I've clarified what happened exactly

I think that's all from me. Hog Farm _talk 02:14, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Hog Farm! Parsecboy (talk) 14:23, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Since HF has yet to post his review, I'll take the liberty of posting mine. Pendright (talk) 04:53, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Info box

• Wouldn't the 3 × triple-expansion steam engines be better placed under Installed Power?
  • Per the usage guide, the power field is for stuff that generates power (so the boilers in this case), but things that consume power to generate thrust go in the propulsion field.

Lead

• In November, the German fleet made the raid on Great Yarmouth, but on return to port at Wilhelmshaven, the fleet encountered heavy fog and had to stop off Schillig.

The comma after Wilhelmshaven is unneeded because it's one continuous action—they returned and encountered fog.

Removed

General characteristics and machinery

• Like the preceding Prinz Adalbert-class ships, Roon and Yorck were good sea boats; when the fuel bunkers were full they had a gentle motion.

they had a gentle motion -> Under what conditions?

Good question, but the source doesn't provide any clarification

• With the rudder hard over [(to its maximum extent)], the ships lost up to 60 percent speed.

Consider adding the above explanation

Reworded

• Each boiler had 4 fireboxes apiece for a total of....

apiece seems redundant

Good point

Armament and armor

• The ships' primary armament consisted of four 21-centimeter (8.3 in) SK L/40 guns mounted in two twin-gun turrets, one fore and one aft.[a]

mounted on

I think "on" would imply on top, i.e., on the roof of the gunhouse

I miss-read the sentence - my apology! Pendright (talk) 03:56, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• For close-range defense against torpedo boats, the ships carried a tertiary battery of fourteen 8.8 cm SK L/35 guns, which were mounted in individual casemates and pivot mounts in the superstructure.

mounted on

Same as above - the guns were in the casemates

Same as above - Pendright (talk) 03:56, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Service history

• Both vessels made long-distance cruises in the Atlantic in the late 1900s in company with I Scouting Group or the entire High Seas Fleet.

Could you show readers an example or two of such cruises?

Added one

World War I

• Roon continued to operate with the main fleet, taking part in the raid on Scarborough, Hartlepool and Whitby in December.[18][20]

Add a comma after Hartlepool

Good catch

• This was followed by several sweeps into the central Baltic in May and June to try to catch Russian vessels, which culminated in the Battle of the Åland Islands in early July; a group of Russian cruisers attacked several German vessels on a minelaying operation and Roon sortied to reinforce the German ships.

• This sentence has over 50 words - suggest breaking it into two sentences.

• Done

• Design work commenced in 1916 to convert the ship into a seaplane tender; work was planned to last from 1917 to 1918 during a period of 20 months. [Instead] The ship was stricken from the naval register on 25 November 1920 and scrapped the following year at Kiel-Nordmole.[27]

Add a transition word or phrase between these two sent6ences-> Transition (linguistics)

Probably worth mentioning that the war ended too, eh?

This is it - Pendright (talk) 04:53, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Pendright, I think I've addressed them all. Let me know if anything is still outstanding. Parsecboy (talk) 17:19, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

All good! Happy to support - Pendright (talk) 03:56, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Alt text?
  • Added
• All of the images seem a little small to me. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:01, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • They're all set to default - I generally don't like to force them larger if they're just regular images. Parsecboy (talk) 14:39, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• There is a sandwich between the Prinz Adalbert image and the bottom of the infobox.
  • Removed, unfortunately
• "As was customary for warships of the period, the ships were also equipped with four 45 cm (17.7 in) torpedo tubes." Maybe something like 'As was customary for warships of the period, the ships were also equipped with torpedo tubes; four 45 cm (17.7 in) tubes each.' or similar?
  • Good point, reworded
• "six 8.8 cm Flak guns". Why the upper-case F?
  • Probably too much German for me ;)
• "the Schillig roadstead outside the port to avoid running into the defensive minefields laid outside the harbor." Is it possible to avoid "outside" twice in one sentence?
  • Good catch, trimmed the last few words as probably redundant.

Well up to your usual standard. Just the trivia above. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:41, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Gog! Parsecboy (talk) 14:28, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Parsecboy, I will review 6 refs (~20% of the 28 refs here). My comments:

• Link to Holger Herwig?
  • Done
• Volume 8 of Hildebrand, Röhr and Steinmetz needs an ISBN.
  • Oddly enough, I haven't been able to track one down - for whatever reason, they didn't include ISBNs in the paperback books, and Worldcat doesn't have an entry for Vol. 8 (you can see Vol. 6 and Vol. 7, for example, but they don't have one for Vol. 8) - I think the hardcopy verion only had 7 volumes in total, and only the paperbacks went to 10 (though I don't know that for sure). Amazon.de doesn't provide an ISBN either.
• Link to [1] as the URL for Pavlovich 1979?
  • Done
• Remove the "ltd." from Scheer 1920?
  • That I can do
• Add registration to the URL access parameter for Campbell & Sieche 1986?
  • Done
• #21: ok.
• Please provide quotes here of refs #6, #10, #15, #19 and #24.
  • I got Greger (ref #15) through my university library 10+ years ago and don't have it anymore.
  • For the rest:
    • #6: Fisher's "Committee on Designs" had yet a further surprise in store. Project HMS Unapproachable had reached fruition by 1906 with the "E" design of a special class of large armoured cruisers. The series was launched with the Invincible, built between April 1906 and March 1908 by W. G. Armstrong at Elswick under greater secrecy than even the Dreadnought. Designed to displace 17,000 tons, Invincible was driven by four Parsons turbines, and her eight 30.5cm guns were arranged in twin turrets (one fore, one aft, and two side diagonally offset). The increase in firing power and speed was accompanied by a reduction in armour. The "all big gun cruiser" during the Great War vindicated her armament at Falkland...Fisher's Dreadnought and Invincible "leaps", coupled with the other reforms affecting personnel, training, gunnery, tactics, and fleet concentrations, effectively blunted the German naval challenge on 1900.
    • #10: this is in a list of abbreviations: SK L/45: Schnellfeuerkanone Kaliber 45
    • #19: On 22 May 1913 she was commissioned with the crew from Yorck and following trials...
    • #24: another one I don't currently have, and Google Books snippet view is only partially useful with what I can now see: ...minutes the Bayan opened fire on the Roon from a distance of 62-64 cables as the two ships closed. The Roon returned the fire while the Luebeck engaged the Oleg. The Admiral Makaraov and Bogatyr were still out of range. Vice Admiral Bakhirev at once summoned the armored cruiser Ryurik to the battle zone, and some time later the battleships Slava and Tsearevich when he...

That's all from me. I would be much obliged if you could review this recent FAC nom of mine, Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of Mycale/archive1? Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 18:51, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Parsecboy, the spot checks are ok, and the source review is a pass. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 18:13, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The nomination now has 3 supports and has passed both the image and source reviews. It is thereby promoted. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 18:15, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]