Talk:Maoism

Potential Renaming?

I know that Maoism is somewhat of a more common name, but Mao Zedong Thought is the actual, correct term for the ideology, Maoism is somewhat of an incorrect term, as parties supporting "Maoism" properly use the term Mao Zedong Thought. 342rfawrfarefarwf (talk) 17:41, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I know that Maoism is somewhat of a more common name, but

Stop right there, WP:COMMONNAME doesn't usually care about what comes next. But since I dislike leaving things at that:

somewhat of an incorrect term

In public English, "X person's thought" is synonymous with "Xism", I'm sorry. Any further quibbling is based on ideological aesthetics. Remsense诉 17:44, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I second @Remsense's points.
Additionally, parties supporting "Maoism" properly use the term Mao Zedong Thought isn't true. Maosim, Mao Zedong's Thought, and Marxism-Leninism-Maoism are often used interchangeably by adherents of the ideology/ideologies.
FropFrop (talk) 03:58, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peru

There was only one source cited in the section on Peru - the New Fontana Dictionary of Modern Thought, 3rd ed. I reviewed the entry on Pg. 501 - about Maoism - and there was absolutely no mention of Peru, the Shining Path or anything else that was even remotely associated with it. As that was the only citation I blanked the section. I'm not opposed to the material being there but it needs reliable citations to support it. Simonm223 (talk) 15:15, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Frustrating edit if you’re not disputing the underlying claims. But I’ll dig up sources. Prezbo (talk) 08:48, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I hear you. But we really should have sources for these sorts of things. If I have some time today for source research I'll lend a hand. Simonm223 (talk) 12:45, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I found a few sources that might work to begin crafting a decent section on Peru:
  1. Beyond the Gonzalo Mystique: Challenges to Abimael Guzmán’s Leadership inside Peru’s Shining Path, 1982–1992. La Serna, Miguel and Starn, Orin, Latin American Research Review. Dec2023, Vol. 58 Issue 4, p743-761. 19p.
  2. Maoism in the Andes: The Communist Party of Peru-Shining Path and the refusal of history. Starn, Orin, Journal of Latin American Studies. May95, Vol. 27 Issue 2, p399. 23p.
  3. Causing Troubles Elsewhere: The Shining Path and Its International Networks, 1980-1993. Jian Gao, Asian Journal of Latin American Studies. 2021, Vol. 34 Issue 1, p49-75. 27p.
I think that second cite will be particularly useful. Here's the stable link to the article [1] - it is accessible via Wikipedia library (as are the other two). Simonm223 (talk) 13:22, 3 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
How's this for copy?
The Partido Comunista del Peru-Sendero Luminoso, known in English as the Shining Path, was a Maoist revolutionary communist party founded by Abimael Guzmán under the nom de guerre of President Gonzalo in Peru in the 1980s. While Orin Starn describes Shining Path as clearly Maoist in formation, he notes that, while Mao pioneered the "sinification of Marxism", Gonzalo Thought "betrays a conspicuous indifference to Peruvian culture and traditions." This party launched a guerilla campaign that attempted to overthrow the government of Peru that led to more than 20,000 deaths. <ref name=Starn>{{cite journal |last1=Starn |first1=Orin |date=May 1995 |title=Maoism in the Andes: The Communist Party of Peru-Shining Path and the refusal of history |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/158120|journal=Journal of Latin American Studies |volume=27 |issue=2 |publisher=Cambridge University Press |pages=399-421 |access-date=February 4, 2025}}</ref> While Shining Path was highly centralized in organization with a heavy focus on President Gonzalo as a charismatic leader in the popular imagination, La Serna and Starn suggest that Gonzalo's deviations from Maoism were heavily criticized within the party. Lack of training, discipline and armament among the Shining Path's military wing was a particular flashpoint within the party. <ref name=Laserna>{{cite journal |last1=La Serna |first1=Miguel |last2=Starn |first2=Orin |date=December 2023 |title=Beyond the Gonzalo Mystique: Challenges to Abimael Guzmán’s Leadership inside Peru’s Shining Path, 1982–1992 |url=https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/latin-american-research-review/article/beyond-the-gonzalo-mystique-challenges-to-abimael-guzmans-leadership-inside-perus-shining-path-19821992/ED313329C4856BDACC2A9AE0BD3DE8E6 |journal=Latin American Researcy Review |volume=58 |issue=4 |publisher=Cambridge University Press |pages=743-761 |doi=10.1017/lar.2023.25 |access-date=February 4, 2025}} Simonm223 (talk) 13:12, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
My only significant objection is to the death toll--the estimates in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (Peru) article are higher, but it sounds like there's a lot of dispute--so I would say "tens of thousands of deaths" and leave it at that. The Starn article was written in 1995 it looks like so I wouldn't expect it to have a very accurate estimate. Prezbo (talk) 13:28, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a source for the Truth and Reconciliation Commission numbers? Simonm223 (talk) 13:34, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Actually nevermind, I found it. One moment and I'll add that as a source. Simonm223 (talk) 13:35, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
OK revised copy:
The Partido Comunista del Peru-Sendero Luminoso, known in English as the Shining Path, was a Maoist revolutionary communist party founded by Abimael Guzmán under the nom de guerre of President Gonzalo in Peru in the 1980s. While Orin Starn describes Shining Path as clearly Maoist in formation, he notes that, while Mao pioneered the "sinification of Marxism", Gonzalo Thought "betrays a conspicuous indifference to Peruvian culture and traditions." This party launched a guerilla campaign that attempted to overthrow the government of Peru that led to between 20 <ref name=Starn>{{cite journal |last1=Starn |first1=Orin |date=May 1995 |title=Maoism in the Andes: The Communist Party of Peru-Shining Path and the refusal of history |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/158120|journal=Journal of Latin American Studies |volume=27 |issue=2 |publisher=Cambridge University Press |pages=399-421 |access-date=February 4, 2025}}</ref> and 70,000 deaths.<ref name=Truth>{{cite journal |date= July 2001 |title=Truth Commission: Peru 01 |url=https://www.usip.org/publications/2001/07/truth-commission-peru-01 |journal=Truth Commission |publisher=United States Institute of Peace}}</ref> While Shining Path was highly centralized in organization with a heavy focus on President Gonzalo as a charismatic leader in the popular imagination, La Serna and Starn suggest that Gonzalo's deviations from Maoism were heavily criticized within the party. Lack of training, discipline and armament among the Shining Path's military wing was a particular flashpoint within the party. <ref name=Laserna>{{cite journal |last1=La Serna |first1=Miguel |last2=Starn |first2=Orin |date=December 2023 |title=Beyond the Gonzalo Mystique: Challenges to Abimael Guzmán’s Leadership inside Peru’s Shining Path, 1982–1992 |url=https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/latin-american-research-review/article/beyond-the-gonzalo-mystique-challenges-to-abimael-guzmans-leadership-inside-perus-shining-path-19821992/ED313329C4856BDACC2A9AE0BD3DE8E6 |journal=Latin American Researcy Review |volume=58 |issue=4 |publisher=Cambridge University Press |pages=743-761 |doi=10.1017/lar.2023.25 |access-date=February 4, 2025}} Simonm223 (talk) 13:41, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I would still argue against using any casualty figures from a paper published in 1995 when more recent (and probably more accurate) estimates are available. Guzman was captured in 1992. I don't know enough about the war to really understand how far it was still "ongoing" in 1995, but certainly people were still dying. Prezbo (talk) 15:02, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer, when we have contested casualties from expert sources, to present the range. I absolutely contend that the Truth and Reconciliation commission source is reliable but I disagree that sources from the mid-90s did not. They had access to enough information that we can consider their figure as a low-end figure. Remember the Truth and Reconciliation document is 2001. We're talking about a range of 6 years, all after Guzman's capture, and when hostilities were dying down. I doubt anybody thinks the Shining Path killed the majority of the casualties between 1995 and 2001 regardless of which death toll they subscribe to. Simonm223 (talk) 15:48, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Orin Starn wrote a book about Shining Path in 2019 which I haven't read. I wonder whether even he still subscribes to this estimate. The point about the timeline is a good one. I would still suggest saying "tens of thousands" and leaving more detailed estimates to other pages where the topic can be covered in more depth by people who know more about it than I do. But I've made my point and won't revert you if you add this content. Prezbo (talk) 15:55, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Got the bibliographical entry for the Starn book? I'd be interested to see if I can trace a copy. Simonm223 (talk) 15:56, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Starn, Orin, and Miguel La Serna. The Shining Path : Love, Madness, and Revolution in the Andes. First edition, W.W. Norton & Company, 2019.
Prezbo (talk) 15:58, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've heard of this one. Want to read it. Unfortunately all I can find is reviews of it. My local library systems don't have it. Simonm223 (talk) 16:06, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also interested, too many unread books in my house as it is though. Prezbo (talk) 20:39, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW this review of the book (available on the Wikipedia Library), gives a number of "more than 70,000 deaths": https://www-tandfonline-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/doi/full/10.1080/00396338.2019.1688580 Prezbo (talk) 11:09, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"The Wind from the East" -- likely good source on French Maoism

I haven't read this book but maybe it's helpful to mention it here: https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691178233/the-wind-from-the-east?srsltid=AfmBOoopX2TOOG3Wf9XQZpI6qKgafnVVF_NJIJGS88IKmIpmQv3gPPJr Prezbo (talk) 11:24, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Michael Kühnen quoted here?

Michael Kühnen is no expert on Maoism just because he claimed he was a Maoist. His calling Maoism a form of Nazism is meant to legitimize Nazism because he was a Nazi. This is bizarre to me. Drocj (talk) 18:47, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to change "former Maoist" to "self-proclaimed Maoist during his teenage years" for proper attribution before realising how stupid it was to give his opinion any weight. Yue🌙 19:34, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:53, 10 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Maoism