Talk:List of tributary states of China

Requested move

Requested move 8 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:27, 23 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]



List of tributaries of ChinaList of tributary states of China – I think that this title would be more appropriate as tributary can mean a lot of different things. When I type tributary into the wikipedia, I get an article regarding tributary of a river, so the current article title creats confusion. 2600:100F:B019:D5AF:4D41:B28:2196:43F0 (talk) 01:23, 8 October 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Sceptre (talk) 18:26, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Goguryeo,Baekje,Silla and Goryeo were not tributary state of China

The Three Kingdoms period consists of Goguryeo, Baekje, and Silla. Goguryeo, Baekje, and Silla were independent countries and had never received political intervention from China. Goguryeo, Baekje, and Silla used their own era names and engaged in independent politics and diplomacy.

Moreover, Goguryeo, Baekje, and Silla continued to wage war with China.

Goguryeo won the war against the Sui and Tang kingdoms.

Silla allied with Tang, destroyed Goguryeo and Baekje, and won the war with Tang. Baekje was also destroyed during the war with China. As you can see, these countries maintained their status as independent countries by going to war with China.

In particular, Goguryeo attacked Manchuria and expanded its territory and received tribute from neighboring countries. The king of Goguryeo called himself the emperor, which caused a lot of friction with China.

Goryeo is also not a tributary country of China. Goryeo fought many wars with China and won.

A tributary country is a client state. However, Goguryeo, Baekje, Silla, and Goryeo paid tribute to China for economic purposes, not because they were politically subordinate or weak.

Most of the evidence that Goguryeo, Baekje, Silla, and Goryeo are tributary countries is not accurate. We need to look at the old records and the magnitude of the force at that time.


ex)Goguryeo–Sui War, 1st conflict of the Goguryeo-Tang War, Silla–Tang War, Goryeo–Khitan War Dreamkid05 (talk) 10:21, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Emperor Taizong of Tang tried to conquer Goguryeo, but he was shot by an arrow in the Siege of Ansi and fell ill. And he died of the disease. Dreamkid05 (talk) 10:32, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ex)+Korean-Jurchen conflicts Dreamkid05 (talk) 11:36, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You must provide sources to back up your claims. The information that you have been reverting comes from a scholarly source titled "Korea: A Historical and Cultural Dictionary" (https://books.google.com/books?id=vj8ShHzUxrYC&q=tribute+korea+china&pg=PA482#v=snippet&q=tribute%20korea%20china&f=false). And if you look at what the source says, on page 482, it is written "Koguryo sent 173 tribute missions the courts of both the Northern and Southern Dynasties in China, Paekche 45, and the most remote, Silla, only nineteen. In return they received eight, six, and two respectively as acknowledgement of Chinese recognition". You must provide reliable sources to back up your claims. You also left out the fact that Goryeo was invaded by the Yuan dynasty and became a quasi-vassal state of the Yuan. In Henthom's work "Korea: The Mongol Invasions", Chapter 5 is titled "Submission and Alliance". On page 150, it describes the Goryeo crown prince setting out for the Yuan court carrying gifts, and that in response to the Mongol demands, the fortified walls of Kanghwa island were demolished (https://archive.org/details/koreamongolinvas00hent/page/150/mode/2up). Akshaysmit (talk) 22:04, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If Goguryeo, Baekje, and Silla were defined as tributary sates of China for their tribute, why not England and Spain? England and Spain also paid tribute. And the kingdom of Goryeo is Mongolia, not China.

In addition, the journal submitted as evidence on this page is a journal from an inaccurate source. Dreamkid05 (talk) 23:22, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Once upon a time, Korea was an enemy to China and never a tributary state. In Korea, a tributary state of china did not exist in ancient and medieval times. Dreamkid05 (talk) 23:36, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Once again you have provided no sources to back up your claims. I'm not sure what you mean by "the kingdom of Goryeo is Mongolia, not China". I don't recall ever saying that Goryeo is either Mongolia or China. Akshaysmit (talk) 08:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Suzerainty state of Goryeo is Mongolia, not China. Dreamkid05 (talk) 09:46, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Don't ignore me. The United Kingdom sent tribute to China, but tell me why it's not a tributary country. Dreamkid05 (talk) 09:56, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why isn't England a tributary country in China? Dreamkid05 (talk) 09:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The journal you've presented as evidence is an obscure and unreliable journal.


Why isn't England a tributary country in China? Dreamkid05 (talk) 09:59, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

'Northeast Project of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences'...plz shut down the Northeast Project. Dreamkid05 (talk) 10:45, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The source used regarding Silla, Baekja and Goguryeo is a book (not a journal) titled "Korea: A Historical and Cultural Dictionary" by scholars at Durham University (https://www.amazon.com/Korea-Historical-Cultural-Dictionary-Durham-ebook/dp/B00HDE2VXA) which does not strike me as being particularly unreliable. You have not presented a single source to back up your claims and are instead continuously removing this sourced content. Akshaysmit (talk) 18:43, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You can't say that if you know Korea well. I've never seen such an argument in my life. It's a ridiculous false claim. The evidence you've submitted has not been certified in historiography. You don't have the authority to judge like that. This document requires the consent of Korean and Chinese historians and historians from third countries. You keep posting false information and suppressing people's freedom of information.I explained it well as an history.Go and search Goguryeo–Sui War, 1st conflict of the Goguryeo-Tang War, Silla–Tang War, Goryeo–Khitan War, and Korean-Jurchen conflicts . Korea has won all the wars with China. I'm not lying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreamkid05 (talk • contribs) 09:24, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You claim that the sources cited in this section are unreliable, but haven't provided any alternatives so far. This won't help to advance your claim. As for the claim that "Korea has won all the wars with China", this is demonstrably false. The state of Gojoseon was destroyed by the Han dynasty's invasion during Han's conquest of Gojoseon. Akshaysmit (talk) 05:36, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We are not talking about Korea's B.C. history. We are talking about Goguryeo, Baekje, Silla, and Goryeo. As you all know, Goguryeo, Baekje, Silla, and Goryeo were victorious countries. china was a defeated country Dreamkid05 (talk) 10:14, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Goguryeo–Sui War(Korea won) 1st conflict of the Goguryeo-Tang War(Korea won) Silla–Tang War(Korea won) Goryeo–Khitan War(Korea won) Korean-Jurchen conflicts(Korea won)

The Tang Dynasty destroyed Goguryeo, but it was possible because of Silla's participation. After that, the Tang Dynasty was defeated by the Silla in the Silla–Tang War. And the Mongol Empire was Mongolia, not China. Therefore, the only war that China defeated Korea was the Han conquest of Gojoseon. Dreamkid05 (talk) 10:29, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think Goguryeo, Baekje, Silla, and Goryeo are tributaries of China? That's impossible.These countries fought a lot of wars with China, but they have never been defeated by China before they were destroyed. Dreamkid05 (talk) 10:34, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The evidence you've submitted has not been certified in historiography. You don't have the authority to judge like that. This document requires the consent of Korean and Chinese historians and historians from third countries. You keep posting false information and suppressing people's freedom of information. Dreamkid05 (talk) 10:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Remaking this article to represent each era better

I have been reading the book Day of Empire by Amy Chua and using it mostly for religious-related citations. However, after reading it, I know that articles about Chinese tributary states could be remade better.

For instance, in 1818, the naivety of the Qing Dynasty led them to mark European countries like Russia and the UK as tributaries alongside Kelantan, despite them having little to do with each other. However, if I were to cite this (which I want to), I would put it near a section about Kelantan as a Qing Dynasty tributary. But no such section exists, and most of the tributary relationships are extremely sparsely described. I think List of tributary states of China needs a major update. GoutComplex (talk) 17:17, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]