Talk:George R. Dale

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by RoySmith talk 20:13, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

George R. Dale (center) in 1926
George R. Dale (center) in 1926
  • Source: [1] He took to wearing a hat with a bullet hole, presumably to demonstrate the poor aim of a trigger-happy Klansman.
    [2] A showman not always committed to fact, Dale wore a hat with a hole he said had been made by a Klan bullet.
5x expanded by Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 36 past nominations.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 22:14, 31 March 2025 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Great hook! I wouldn't run this image with it, though, the hook makes you look for the hat, I had to open it at full size to confirm it wasn't there.

Ref spotcheck nitpick, not enough to hold back the nom: Smith has "He had been editor of weeklies that were credited with closing the saloons in nearby Hartford City and Montpelier.", wheras the article has "his reporting". I'm not sure "his reporting" is a reasonable extrapolation of him being the editor. Rusalkii (talk) 21:51, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

George R. Dale in 1929
George R. Dale in 1929
Eh, the hook really suggests that a hat is going to be pictured, this image is somewhat better but not by that much. I don't fundamentally object, if the promoter wants to run with the image consider it approved, but just my 2c. Rusalkii (talk) 06:20, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Smith (2010) is cited in the article but does not really support the hook. The implication throughout the cited source is that Dale was conflating different forms of corruption. "supposedly inflicted by the Ku Klux Klan" feels like an odd way to put this. The point Smith makes is that the bullet could well have been fired by bootleggers who also targeted Dale. It also seems a bit odd since there are many hard facts in the article about his conflicts with the KKK. If the hook was about the ordeal where he goes to jail for writing critically about Klan members, then the photo could be used. Rjjiii (talk) 23:51, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Rjjiii: I see what you mean about the hook phrasing. In my head, the word "supposedly" was an appropriate way to phrase that it was claimed by Dale. That being said, I agree with you that Dale being jailed would also make for an interesting hook. (My original idea for this DYK was to say that people in jail would applaud his return, but that fact is only in unreliable sources, it turns out.) So I'll propose this hook with the jail angle:
ALT1: ... that George R. Dale (pictured) was sent to prison by a judge whom he accused of being in the Ku Klux Klan?
or maybe:
ALT2: ... that George R. Dale (pictured) was sentenced to prison for accusing a judge of being in the Ku Klux Klan, but received a pardon from a governor who was also in the Klan?
— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 02:20, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Both ALT1 and ALT2 check out. The image is in the public domain. Thanks, Vigilantcosmicpenguin! Rjjiii (talk) 00:17, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]


GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:George R. Dale/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk · contribs) 04:35, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Dumelow (talk · contribs) 14:16, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]


Happy to look at this one - Dumelow (talk) 14:16, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, will pass this for GA - Dumelow (talk) 06:20, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

1. Well-written

Criteria: the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

Resolved
Early and personal life
  • "George Reynolds Dale was born on February 5, 1867, in Monticello, Indiana, in White County."
Is the order "city, state, county" usual in US English? It would be usual to do "city, county, nation" in British English at least
  • "Dale's grandfather, William Dale, had migrated to White County from Virginia"
Do we know if this was his grandfather on his mother or father's side?
Oh yeah, Doh! Good point - Dumelow (talk) 06:18, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Dale briefly worked at his father's law office.[2] He went to school in Monticello, dropping out of twelfth grade due to chronic headaches."
Did he work for his father before leaving school? I would link twelfth grade for international readers.
  • That's a good question. The cited source there (Frank 1977) says that Dale was sixteen when his father died, so he must have still been in high school when he worked for him. But Roll 1931 says Dale's father died in 1886, which means he was eighteen or nineteen. Frank 1977 must have assumed this took place while he was still in school, but without a source being more direct, I'll just leave it as it is. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:49, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he moved to Hartford City, Indiana, to work at his uncle's paper mill. "
Do we know if this was his father's brother/brother-in-law or his mother's?
OK, no problem - 06:18, 17 October 2025 (UTC)
Publishing career
Early career
  • "Dale co-produced the Hartford City Press with Charles Wigmore."
Do we know what date from?
  • " After a dispute with Wigmore, Dale sold his stake the paper and moved to Montpelier, Indiana, where he founded the Montpelier Call. He returned to Hartford City and established the Journal."
Missing "in" after "stake"
Again, can we date the foundations of these papers? Did the Montpelier Call close when he moved back to Hartford?
Yes, the new details are great here - Dumelow (talk) 06:18, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Interest in his newspaper declined"
Presumably this is referring to the Journal? If so, I would name it here.
  • Done.
  • "He moved to Muncie, Indiana, in 1916 at the invitation of mayor Rollin Bunch and his brother, Fred.[5] The mayor, a member of the Democratic Party, was opposed to the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), which motivated him to establish a newspaper with Dale"
Again, did the journal close when he moved?
  • Specified.
  • "He cut ties with Bunch after the latter was imprisoned for mail fraud"
Do we know a date for this?
  • Specified
Establishment of the Muncie Post-Democrat
  • "His paper was the city's first to report on labor disputes, despite resistance from city's chamber of commerce and from the Ball brothers, who owned a jar company that was the city's largest employer"
I think there should be a "the" before "city's"?
  • Done
  • "Dale did not endorse Bunch as the Democratic candidate in the 1921 mayoral election due to a state law barring felons from public office"
If state law banned felons how did he stand as a candidate?
  • "Opponents of Dale said they would start an opposing newspaper; they founded the city's second Democratic newspaper in 1924, which shuttered the same year"
Do we know the name of this paper?
OK, no problem - 06:18, 17 October 2025 (UTC)
Opposition to the Ku Klux Klan
  • "He began to blame the KKK on the 1922 attack, although it had occurred before his KKK reports.[21]"
Doesn't read right to me. Should it be "began to blame the 1922 attack on the KKK" or "began to blame the KKK for the 1922 attack"?
  • Fixed
Mayorship of John C. Hampton

"Federal agents raided Muncie bars in November 1927 without informing the mayor's office or police department, and their reports implied the mayor did little to enforce Prohibition."

Would be better linked to Prohibition in the United States and I would consider explicitly stating this was prohibition of the consumption of alcohol.
  • Done
Mayor of Muncie
  • "He then called for the resignation of the chair of the Muncie Democratic Party, J. Wilbur Sims; after he refused to resign, Dale's faction held an election for a rival chair"
Do we know the outcome of this election? Did they replace Sims or was it for a separate position?
  • The source doesn't specify. I can find some contemporary newspapers saying that Sims refused to step down, but I might be missing something and can't conclude that that was the end of it—I think "rival chair" is enough detail for us. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:49, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
OK, no problem - Dumelow (talk) 06:18, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ten council members, including six Democrats, generally sided against Dale ... Dale generally had tepid support from a seven-seat majority of the council."
Seems a but contradictory to say the majority of the council generally sided against him but he also generally had tepid support from them?
Later life, death, and legacy
  • "When Dale left office, both of Muncie's Republican newspapers wrote that he had some positive contributions"
I think "had had" is needed here or "had made", also consider adding "during his term" to the end of the sentence
  • Done.
  • "Historians and sociologists have praised Dale's resistance of the KKK" and "Some scholars have credited Dale with limiting the political power of the Ball family"
May fall foul of MOS:AWW, consider attributing these opinions
  • Smith 2010 says, "These tales of the Klan’s retribution against Dale’s editorials have been repeated by sociologists, historians, and other writers." and Frank 1977 uses the phrase "some scholars have suggested", so this phrasing is accurate to the sources. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:49, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
OK, not much we can do then - Dumelow (talk) 06:18, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

2. Verifiable with no original research

Criteria: it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline; reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose); it contains no original research; and it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.

Resolved
  • I am not familiar with all of the sources used but the appear to be reliable
  • Article is fully cited inline throughout
  • Spotchecks for verifiability:
"According to historian Carrolyle M. Frank, the existence of a political machine may have largely been Dale's invention." checks out to p35 of Frank 1977
"The aviation department was abolished after Johnson and other members resigned." checks out to Frank 1979, p. 329.
"The media also reported on gunshots at Dale's house in 1926, attributing this to the KKK. However, Dale blamed this attack on bootleggers, and the KKK's presence in Muncie had declined" checks out to Smith 2010, p. 389
"He described KKK members as "kookoos"," checks out to Madison 2020, p. 111. Your citation and three others are to p.384, can you check if these should all be p.111?
  • Fixed the page number.
  • I didn't pick up any overly close paraphrasing in my spotchecks and Earwig flags no issues (it's % score is skewed by the quotes, which are properly attributed in the article) - Dumelow (talk) 15:32, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

3. Broad in its coverage

Criteria: it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

Resolved

I am not an expert on historic US politics but there was nothing obviously missing. The level of detail looks to be appropriate for the topic - Dumelow (talk) 07:23, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

4. Neutral

Criteria: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.

Resolved

I think the article presents neutrally for what could be a contentious (though historic) topic - Dumelow (talk) 07:23, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

5. Stable

Criteria: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Resolved

Article has been expanded in March/April this year and no significant changes since. No evidence of content disputes in history or talk page - Dumelow (talk) 07:23, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

6. Illustrated

Criteria: media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

  • File:George R. Dale in jail in 1926.jpg is stated as PD because it was published before 1930 in the US. I couldn't identify a date of publication from the source page (which asserts it is still in copyright), only the year it was taken. Can you confirm? - Dumelow (talk)
allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:George_R._Dale