This review is transcluded from Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 1988/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Sims2aholic8 (talk · contribs) 18:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: LastJabberwocky (talk · contribs) 13:38, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again! In the past I made a quick review of your Eurovision-related nomination. This time I try to make it more cooperative and longer :). —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 13:38, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@LastJabberwocky: Thank you for the thorough review and for your time in contributing to this GA review! I have reviewed your comments and made several changes to their article; I have also left some additional feedback of my own below, and happy to work with you on these outstanding points when you have capacity. I have checked the refs you mentioned below and I do not have the same issues as you described; the Irish Times refs are behind a paywall, as flagged on the citation, and I do not have issues with accessing Inatheque or the Cyprus links. I have always endeavoured to find references which are accessible to everyone, however it is not always possible as I'm sure you well know.

I think the article is almost ready for promotion. I think we should address warning tags placed on the logo image and the image of Liam O Maolai —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 07:12, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What warning tags are you referring to? Yes there's a crop instruction on the Ó Maonlaí image, but the image itself is perfectly suitable for this article. As for the logo, yes it could be better rendered in SVG, but I do not have the necessary skills in order to do this, and regardless it is still a suitable image for this article, and is tagged appropriately as a non-free image.

I refer you back to point 6 of the GA criteria. If you can please be specific about which of the points below you believe I have not satisfied I can provide a proper response, however I don't believe there is anything I need to do in order for this article to pass GA.

Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:09, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I absolutely agree on both points (the images are perfectly illustative, and GA criteria doesn't require it image cropping and tweaking)! I thiught it would be easy enough to adress them (i.e. most likely remove the warning banners). I'll remove them. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 14:11, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• all green Y
• this image has a recommendation to crop it.
• the logo has cleanup tag
• These appear to be uncategorised (or image categories are hidden on mobile): File:Celine Dion Paris, Bercy 2013-11-25 02 (cropped).JPG, File:Lara Fabian (cropped).png, File:The RDS Simmonscourt - panoramio.jpg All good Y

• All sources appear to be reliable per WP:RSP Y
• All the foreign titles I checked are translated into English Y
• All formatted nicely with notes for clusters of 4+ refs and bibliography Y
• These links don't appear to work for me (half of the internet is regionally blocked for me so they possibly work for you
  • Two Irish times links
  • http://inatheque.ina.fr/doc/TV-RADIO/DA_CPB88005668/33eme-concours-eurovision-de-la-chanson-1988?rang=25%2033%C3%A8me
  • Several pressarchive.cy links

• Space for approximately 1,500 people in the audience was expected following construction of the stage and other technical aspects ---> RDS Simmonscourt Pavilion, following construction of the stage and other technical elements, was expected to accommodate approximately 1,500 audience members
• Several of the artists which competed in this year's contest had participated in previous editions of the event for the same country ---> Several artists who competed in 1988 edition of the contest had participated in the previous editions for the same country
• was Yehuda Tamir and Reuven Gvirtz --> were Yehuda Tamir and Reuven Gvirtz
• A separate musical director could be nominated by each participating delegation to lead the orchestra during its country's performance, with the host musical director also available to conduct for those countries which did not nominate their own conductor. ----> Each participating delegation could nominate a separate musical director to lead the orchestra during its country's performance, with the host musical director also available to conduct for those countries which did not nominate their own conductor.
• and as of 2025 only, fade-out ending. The source confirming this info was published in 2016, so we either need extra source or change to "as of 2016"
• broadcaster Pat Kenny and television announcer and Miss Ireland 1980 Michelle Rocca ---> broadcaster Pat Kenny, as well as television announcer and Miss Ireland 1980 Michelle Rocca
  • I have issues with this suggested wording as I feel it "relegates" Rocca compared to Kenny, when in fact they had equal billing and responsibilities. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • I didn't phrase it to imply that they aren't equally involved, but yeah it can be interpreted that way. My idea was to remedy the repetition of "ands" plus flow; I would consider placing comma before the first "and" for better flow. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 04:49, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Several technical innovations and improvements were introduced to the contest for the first time Several technical innovations and improvements were introduced with the 1988 Eurovision / Reason: I think the fact that we mention improvements/innovations underscores that they are new to the contest
• spearheaded by executive producer Liam Miller and director Declan Lowney, who were eager to make the contest more to a younger audience. ---> spearheaded by Miller and Lowney, whose goal was to increase the Eurovision's appeal for a younger audience.
• replaced by a computer-generated version, displayed on two video walls constructed on either side of the stage, which was provided by Philips ---> replaced by a computer-generated version, provided by Philips and displayed on two video walls constructed on either side of the stage.
  • I have slightly rephrased this, as Philips only provided the technology for the video walls; the actual scoreboard I believe was developed by RTÉ. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • Thanks for catching this! —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 04:49, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• A modern feel was also implemented within the stage design by Paula Farrell and Michael Grogan, and the graphic design by Maria Quigley, aspects which had already been modernised for the previous year's edition If understand correctly, both 1987 and 1988 editions have similarly modernised stage design and graphic design? If so, I would rephrase it into something like this: Similar to the previous year's edition, Eurovision 1988 implemented a modern feel within both the stage design by Paula Farrell and Michael Grogan, and the graphic design by Maria Quigley.
• the second of these rehearsals was filmed as a production stand-by in case the live event was disrupted, with a live audience present ----> the second rehearsal was filmed with a live audience present as a production stand-by in case the live event was disrupted.
• or the 29 April evening dress rehearsal the songwriter of the Swedish entry Py Bäckman performed the entry in his stead ----> the songwriter of the Swedish entry, Py Bäckman, performed the entry in his stead at the 29 April evening dress rehearsal

• Each participating broadcaster submitted one song, which was required to be no longer than three minutes in duration and performed in the language, or one of the languages, of the country which it represented. ---> Each participating country submitted one song limited to three minutes or less and performed in the language, or one of the languages, of the country which it represented.
• A maximum of six performers were allowed on stage during each country's performance. Each entry could utilise all or part of the live orchestra and could use instrumental-only backing tracks, however any backing tracks used could only include the sound of instruments featured on stage being mimed by the performers. ---> During each performance, only six musicians were allowed on stage, permitted to use live orchestra and instrumental backing tracks, however any backing tracks had to include all the instruments featured on stage and mimed by the performers.
  • I have slight reservations about this wording as well, as the six people on stage don't have to be musicians of any kind, they could be dancers or any other kind of performance artist; "musician" is a very specific term in my mind, and not every person on the Eurovision stage would necessarily fall under that definition. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • We can rephrase performances as "concert" and switch "musicians" with "performers" —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr)
      • I dislike using the word "concert" here given this is a television production first and foremost and I just don't believe it fits with how the song contest works. I've attempted to rewrite this sentence to better align with your suggestions. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
• The votes of each member were collected following the country's performance and then tallied by the non-voting jury chairperson to determine the points to be awarded. In any cases where two or more songs in the top ten received the same number of votes, a show of hands by all jury members was used to determine the final placing. ---> Following each performance, participating countries placed their votes, which were then tallied by the non-voting jury chairperson that determined the points distribution. In cases where two or more songs in the top ten received the same number of votes, a show of hands by all jury members was used to determine the final placing.
  • This suggested wording I believe confuses countries with jurors; the votes awarded by each country's jury as a collective (the 12, 10, 8-1 points) happened after all songs had been performed, but the members on each jury assigned their votes for each entry after the performance that entry had finished. While there was a voting scrutineer present in Dublin, this is a different role to the jury presidents, who were based in each country and oversaw the votes of only that jury. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • I see! Can we switch "participating countries" with "the juries"?
    • which were then tallied ----> which, eith the conclusion of the final performance, were tallied}} —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 04:49, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've added my own alternate wording to the article for this section which should hopefully satisfy your ask in a slightly different way? Sims2aholic8 (talk)
• The results of the 1988 contest were determined through the same scoring system as had first been introduced in 1975: each country awarded twelve points to its favourite entry, followed by ten points to its second favourite, and then awarded points in decreasing value from eight to one for the remaining songs which featured in the country's top ten, with countries unable to vote for their own entry.[38] The points awarded by each country were determined by an assembled jury of sixteen individuals, who were all required to be members of the public with no connection to the music industry, split evenly between men and women and across four age groups: 15–25; 26–35; 36–45; and 46–60. ---> The results of the 1988 contest were determined through the scoring system introduced in 1975: each country awarded twelve points to its favourite entry, followed by ten points to its second favourite, and then allocated the rest in decreasing value from eight to one for the remaining songs, but prohibited to vote for their own entry. The points awarded by each country were determined by an assembled jury of sixteen individuals, who were all required to be members of the public with no connection to the music industry, split evenly between men and women and across four age groups: 15–25, 26–35, 36–45, and 46–60.
  • and then allocated the rest in decreasing value from eight to one for the remaining songs makes it sound like every song gets points, which is not the case; I've taken some of the suggestions from this paragraph but have retained the original wording for this sentence. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • for the remaining songs which featured in the country's top ten ---> for the remaining eight songs. Reason: Simplified version and clarifying that there are eight remaining songs
      • I've trimmed this sentence a little, but I feel that "in the country's top ten" is needed here to avoid confusion over the number of songs in the contest; "the remaining eight songs" by itself I believe could be misread to mean that there are only eight songs left in the whole contest, and not just to receive points. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
• I think the tiebreaks process is duplicated or unclear how and why it's different: In cases where two or more songs in the top ten received the same number of votes, a show of hands by all jury members was used to determine the final placing and ..in the event that two or more countries finished in first place with the same number of points, the artists representing these countries would perform their entries again...
  • One tie-break is for a scenario where two countries get the same number of votes among an individual jury (i.e. the sixteen members from the Belgian jury), the other tie-break is for if two countries get the same number of points after all countries had voted (the 12, 10, 8-1 points awarded by all 22 juries). Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • Fai enough! —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 06:19, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• If after all countries had determined their favourites and there was still a tie for first... --> If all countries had determined their favourites and there was still a tie for first...
  • I think the "after" here is an important differentiator, because it signifies a process, i.e. each country has to individually announce their favourite of the two or more entries tied for first place. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • Fair enough! —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 04:49, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• It also remains as of 2024 the last time that a song in the French language has won ----> It also remained, as of 2024, the last by a song performed in French
  • Changed to 2025 as no French song has yet to win the contest again following the 2025 contest; added new ref.
• while playing the piano. --> while playing piano
• The music video, featuring performances of the song by the band in eleven European countries ---> The music video, featuring Hothouse Flowers performing the song across in eleven European countries

• The announcement of the results from each country was conducted in the order in which they performed ---> The results were announced in the order of the performances
• one of the closest margins of victory ----> one of the closest margins of victory in Eurovision's history
• Broadcasters were able to send commentators to provide coverage of the contest ... These commentators were typically sent to the venue to report on the event, and were able to provide commentary from small booths within the venue. ---> Broadcasters sent commentators to Dublin, where they provided coverage of contest ... The commentators provided coverage from small booths located within the venue.
  • Not every broadcaster sent a commentator to Dublin though, it's known that some commentators worked from their own countries, and some broadcasters didn't even provide commentary, so I would prefer not to change this into an absolute statement. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • I also misrepresented the cited sources that describe general rules for all Eurovision editions not the report on 1988-specific broadcasters. I think we should make this sentences about general rules into 1988-specific report. Or cut the general information, and start the first paragraph with something like: Some of the broadcasters worked on-location, accommodated by the venue with 33 commentators booths. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 06:19, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have rewritten this section now to make it a bit more "generic". Sims2aholic8 (talk)
• 33 commentary booths were constructed for the event ----> A total number of 33 commentary booths were constructed for the event Reason: To not start a sentence with a number

• This contest is notable as being considered a launchpad to global notability and success for two of the competing artists, namely Switzerland's winning artist Céline Dion and Luxembourg's Lara Fabian. ---> The 1988 Eurovision is considered to be the launchpad for Switzerland's winning artist Céline Dion and Luxembourg's Lara Fabian, contributing to their global notability and success.
• While Dion had been known in her native Canada and in France before the contest,[18] and although her winning song "Ne partez pas sans moi" was not a major commercial success in singles charts across Europe, winning the contest provided... ---> While Dion had been known in her native Canada and in France before the contest,[18] her winning song "Ne partez pas sans moi" was not a major commercial success in singles charts across Europe. Her victory in the contest provided...
  • I don't really understand the reason behind splitting the sentence as you suggested; the point I was trying to make here is that although the song wasn't her success her victory in the contest still provided a boost to her career, and not as you seem to be suggesting with this wording that because she was well-known before that the song should have been successful. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
    • The presence of both "while" and "although", I think, confuses the sentence; plus I would put emphasis on "already famous" and "still provided boost". For this purpose, I would remove the information about unsuccessful single, because it's a separate idea: Her song wasn't successful, but her Eurovision brought it to success (in comparison to the previous idea—her career was already successful, and Eurovision boosted it even further). —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 06:19, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • Can you drop books quotes that source this sentence? —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 06:19, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've removed the part about already famous; I think the narrative that although the song wasn't a big success at the time but her Eurovision win still contributed to her global success in the following years is more relevant here. Sims2aholic8 (talk)
      • O'Connor: "The winning entry did not fare very well in the charts around the continent [...] However, in the next decade Céline Dion emerged as the biggest female artist in the world, her albums selling hundreds of millions of copies around the globe."
      • West: "It is sometimes said that Eurovision did little to boost Dion's career. But she had just turned twenty when she won the contest. Her win enabled her manager to renegotiate the budget for her first anglophone album, Unison, quadrupling the record company investment in her. That album went platinum in Canada and the USA, and she hasn't looked back since."
• Belgian-born Fabian subsequently moved to Quebec in the years following the contest ---> Belgian-born Fabian moved to Quebec in the years following the contest
• compete in Congratulations: 50 Years of the Eurovision Song Contest, a special broadcast to determine the contest's most popular entry of its first 50 years as part of the contest's anniversary celebrations. ---> compete in Congratulations: 50 Years of the Eurovision Song Contest, a special broadcast organised as a part of the contest's anniversary celebrations held to determine the contest's most popular entry of its first 50 year run.