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The article addresses the acquisition of slaves, but it does not mention what slaves were used for, or even where they were sold to. Would be good to add something about that if anyone has time.Thedarkfourth (talk) 10:43, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just like there is a massive difference between "a slave" (as understood by the masses) and "a slave in the Muslim world", who could potentially achieve a very high status (eg. Malik Ambar), there is a difference between a sex slave and a Muslim concubine (eg. Roxelana). As to what they did, it depended on their abilities. M.Bitton (talk) 17:13, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No, there is no difference between a sex slave and a concubine. A sex slave is a slave whom her owner uses for sex. That is a sex slave. The fact that some of these concubines was used by royal owners to procreate and thereby got to live in a luxurious enviromnent is certainly no compensation for a life imprisoned in sex segregation and sexual slavery. A slave can not consent. She is abused. She lives in sexual slavery. To say something else is appologetism. And as a woman, I find appologetism for sexual slavery and sexual abuse deeply digusting. It is disturbing. You are, in fact, using the same appologetic talking points - romantization for sexual slavery, pointing out individual male slaves ability to raise in rank - which are normally used in debate by appologists to excuse slavery in islam and make it appear belevolent. That does not give a good impression for a neutral editor. Good day. --Aciram (talk) 21:49, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You forgot three things:
- They are captives first and foremost, taken as a Pows, which means their consent is irrelevent, and per M.Bitton said, they have their uses, in fact, an entire economy was based on slavery since the barbary states were made to wage holy war on Christian nations as did the Catholic Spanish Habsburgs against the Moors. The Catholic Maltese Knighs did exactly the same with Muslim captives they took. It's not about being apologetic, it's about understanding the 17th century Mediterranean world that beleives none of your moralisitic views.
- I don't think your militant attitude has any place in an encyblopedia, especially that we're talking about military history. You're in no place to judge what's good or bad about a 17th century practice that was both common and legal. You read right, legal. Slavery was an absolute economic need for both Muslim and Christian states. Slavery was at some point the very core of diplomacy between these states, and slavery provided for the barbary states few capable sailors and renegade corsairs who raised to become rulers themselves. A Muslim (Or ex Muslim) slave in Europe could never hope to reach a rank of captain in the French royal navy let alone being the hightest administrative figure in the state.
- Being a woman gives you no better position to make a judgement on a history subject. No one said slavery was benevolent, it was just a foreign and internal policy tool that allowed the barbary states (and Malta) to become prominent powers during this period.
At no point did she mention Christian slavery in her argument, though. You are clearly a respected and well-read editor of this topic, so I would assume that this is a slip born from past arguments, rather than an attempt at whataboutism.
How a slave is treated is irrelevant to its status as a slave. As a rational example, Frederick Douglass also rose to a position of prominence within the society that enslaved him. 130.156.141.2 (talk) 17:36, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Binksternet: I agree that it would make sense to merge these articles. "Barbary slave trade" can be the main article covering the topic, and there are already country-specific articles such as Slavery in Algeria, Slavery in Tunisia and Slavery in Libya which can cover more details. @Dr Sachs and Leutha: I am pinging you both since you might be interested in this proposal as you had originally created these two articles. Feel free to tag anyone else who may be interested in joining this discussion. Xwejnusgozo (talk) 13:40, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Please remove the second occurrence of the following repeated sentence in the article:
"On some occasions, settlements such as Baltimore, Ireland were abandoned following Barbary pirate raids, only being resettled many years later. Between 1609 and 1616, England alone lost 466 merchant ships to Barbary pirates."
This is already stated earlier in the same paragraph in slightly different wording. The repetition adds no new information and disrupts the flow. The first instance is better integrated into the historical sequence, so the second one should be deleted.