The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.‎

The result was No consensus to delete, default to keep. Carlossuarez46 18:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Klein ISD Vistas High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Another spam non-notable school. Jmlk17 06:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep as a somewhat useful article, at least potentially if not currently. It might not have the name recognition of Chuck Norris, but if I were considering sending my kids there I'd appreciate an informative description of the place. Remember WP:SENSE and WP:IGNORE. --
  xDanielx
  ^Talk 07:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "I'd appreciate an informative description of the place"... for which the school's own website should be appropriate. In its current form, which is a simple duplication of what the school's website should be, while showing no notability outside existing and no sources independant of the school itself (let alone at all) the article would best be redirected with possible weak minor merge to an article on the district the school is in, if identifiable. Not-a-keep not-a-vote. -- saberwyn 11:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - just about any academic organization that was a Wikipedia article has a website. "This information could exist somewhere apart from Wikipedia, therefore this information should not exist in Wikipedia" is a non sequitur. In any case, the website likely has a very small handful of administrators, while the article can be edited by several thousand knowledgeable editors, the latter collective having much more neutral intent. You won't find commentary on such things as overpopulation, drugs, violence, etc. on the school's website. --
  xDanielx
  ^Talk 20:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletions. -- Bduke 11:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete WP:N: No claim of notability whatsoever. WP:DIR: Wikipedia is not a school catalogue--Victor falk 13:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. I've sort of gotten used to the idea of high schools being "inherently notable", but until someone wants to write an actual article instead of spam, please delete. This is not a "keep and cleanup" vote. --Fang Aili ^talk 14:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC) Still delete. The edits are good, but I can't find a reference that refers to the school specifically, rather than a particular program. --Fang Aili ^talk 14:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with the school district that this school is part, it doesn't have enough elements for a single article.--JForget 23:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - specialized high school within district for "at risk" students. I have tried to improve the article but it will grow better over time. -- DS1953 ^talk 02:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep High schools are notable. No reason to pick on this article. The spam allegation is a mere slur. LukeHoC 02:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy Delete - No such school name (see comment below). No significant coverage apparent in reliable sources, appears to be very non-notable. Google search comes up a bit short on the exact name. – Dreadstar † 02:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Unlike the other high schools in the district, this is a specialized high school, with no notability Corpx 05:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - per nom. To exist is not enough when there are an uncounted number of other things just like it; it is the very example of not being notable. --Storm Rider ^(talk) 08:46, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep if it is a specialized high school, it has at least some notability.DGG (talk) 07:13, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with Harris County, Texas article. — RJH (talk) 19:36, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the vote is decided as a merge, it should be merged to Klein Independent School District, as that agency operates Vistas. WhisperToMe 04:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - this is a specialised High School that will take a small number of students with special needs. This school is notable as an experiment in educational methods. TerriersFan 00:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - a school with a revolutionary concept for the district. I think that it is notable just because of the concept which is an extreme departure for this district which in the past has not been on the cutting-edge and very conservative. I should know, I went to Klein High School.-MBK004 01:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• It can be considered "revolutionary" if reliable sources think so, but as of now, no such sources are found Corpx 01:40, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per MBK004, DGG, et al. "Specialized" high school for "at risk" students is sufficient for me. Has at least one verifiable source. Bearian 20:48, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question: is it a school or a program? – Dreadstar † 15:17, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep well written neutral pov stub w/ references... regardless of subject that alone merits a keep.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 16:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What? I can think of lots of non-notable things on which I could write a NPOV stub with references. --Fang Aili ^talk 16:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Having multiple verifiable references is Wikipedia's definition of notability. See Wikipedia:Notability Truthanado 23:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please go read that link. Notability is much more complicated than a "definition". Even if we were to accept the theory that multiple verifiable references=notability, there is still only one independent reference in the article. --Fang Aili ^talk 23:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - District as a whole is notable and this is the district's alternative education school, which makes it individually notable. Since it's only been open for one year, is it reasonable for us to expect a lot of notable activities with references? I suggest we keep it. It has been tagged a stub which should encourage improvements. As the school ages and has more opportunity to do something truly notable, I believe it will improve. Truthanado 23:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as this is a notable specialized school for at risk students which meets WP:NOTE easily. Burntsauce 18:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - If this is kept, the article needs to be renamed. From what the sources say, there is no high school named Klein ISD Vistas High School. There is a potential for an article named either Vistas high school program or Klein ISD Vistas high school program, and under that program there are four different high schools that fall under this program: Klein High School, Klein Collins High School, Klein Forest High School and Klein Oak High School. It seems to be locally notable according to a google search Vistas high school program, but I still think it fails WP:Notability due to lack of significant coverage in sources independent of the school or program. Fails under the now degraded Wikipedia:Schools essay. Delete or merge into an area school-district-related article.– Dreadstar † 18:33, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A little more research turns up this umbrella organization: Klein Independent School District. – Dreadstar †

Good shout about the article name. The correct name, as can be seen here, is Vistas High School to which I have moved the page. TerriersFan 20:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your taking action on my observation, but I still don't think there is a "Vistas High School", here is a listing of their high schools, and the closet thing is the "Vistas High School Program". I will contact Vistas to clarify. I should know more by tomorrow. – Dreadstar † 21:30, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at that list, the Klein ISD covers a lot more than just a single, or even four high schools. A whole list of schools. – Dreadstar † 21:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, curious. OTOH if you go here and then follow the links on the left: Campuses->High Schools it lists five schools, the bottom one of which is called Vistas and leads to a website entitled Vistas High School. I await with interest the outcome of your enquiries :-) TerriersFan 23:04, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I saw that. It's kinda weird, isn't it? For a high school to have the word "Program" as part of its name is unusual, (Vistas High School Program - 12550 Bammel N. Houston) then the address on Brammel seems to be a sort of hub for several different schools (Klein Iintermediate, Wunderlich Intermediate, Eiland Elementary, Eppa Island Elementary, Greenwood forest Elementary, Kaiser Elementary, Kienk Elementary, and Nitsch Elementary). I tried calling them today but they were already gone for the day. I'll try again tomorrow - I also sent an email. – Dreadstar † 23:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep with a rename to Vistas High School which is part of the Klein district. Silensor 07:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Update: I just received confirmation back from Vistas: "Vistas is a stand alone program." There is no high school named Vistas High School, it is a program. – Dreadstar † 14:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • We all appreciate the great lengths you're going to try and see this article deleted, including but not limited to the invalid use of speedy deletion criteria, but whether or not this is called "Vistas High School" or "Vistas High School program", the subject remains to be notable, and verifiable through multiple reliable sources. Happy editing, Silensor 17:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.