Alticor has been removing negative information yet again. See changes by 167.23.0.90 on 09:48, 26 July 2005 in the history. The IP 167.23.0.90 traces to Alticor.

• ESKog called Alticor's recent vandalism anon blanking :-) it was an alticor ip removing our links164.116.253.65 23:59, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a list of all the dates that 167.23.0.90 (the Alticor IP) vandalized this entry. This will be updated if necessary.

• 28 February 2005
• 4 March 2005
• 20 June 2005
• 14 July 2005
• 26 July 2005
• 8 September
• 21 September 2005
• 8 November 2005
• 17 November 2005
• 30 November 2005

They have also vandalized other entries, including Amway, Google bomb, Pyramid scheme, Corporate crime, and core. That list alone sure tells you something, doesn't it? (DonIncognito 03:33, 18 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]

(Further comments removed for article length. See history for details.

Consensus was to use the term "Multi-level Marketting". See history for details.

hello, i work for quixtar, although i do not know what goes on in the higher levels, i thought that i should point out that quixtar does not accept people to declare personal use on items anymore because of peopole abusing the system.

Discussion on external links. See history (trimmed for article length). Also see breakdown.

Let's look at the links that are there now (and also thisbiznow.com) and try to establish a consensus here as to which should stay to best keep NPOV up. ESkog | ^Talk 21:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

No consensus was reached but this link has remained in the article. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to NOT include this link. See history for discussion

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to NOT include this link. See history for discussion, also, see "Take 2" for inclusion thoughts as well as "Article rewrite"

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Kiyosaki has been verified as an Amway supporter, so he will stay listed in the supporters section. See history for further detail.

This section being discussed in section 14, Article rewrite. See history for comment. Trimmed for article length.

Seems we have reasonable consensus on the ones above. I think we have enough, and don't want that section to get too bloated, but here are some new ones to consider, as added by other well-meaning contributors:

• Gallwapa, settle down a little. This is perhaps the busiest time of the year for most of the world with Christmas and New Year. It is not surprising that there has not been much discussion on these sites.Stones12 06:30, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for discussion.

No consensus on this link. NOT included for time being. See history for comment.

Consensus was to NOT include this link. See history for discussion.

• Gallwapa 00:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I vote keep on this one. Another reputable news source to draw from. Fits and supports the controversy section of the article. Gallwapa 00:34, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WOW, how many other "businesses" have this much drama about whats legit info and not, and how many other buisnesses try to vandalize Wiki?? I'm betting no truely legitimate buisnesses have it this bad... anyway, Quixtar ruined my best friends life, so I guess I'm biased towards negative info myself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.254.113.178 (talk • contribs) 00:13, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

• Quixtar was not founded by Alticor. In September of 1999 when Quixtar launched there was no Alticor. The Mule 23:18, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This section of talk removed for article length. See history. Currently being worked out in Section 14, "article rewrite"

This section of talk removed for article length. See history. Currently being worked out in Section 14, "article rewrite"

Consensus was to INCLUDE this link. See history for detail.

A link to "Quixtar Inside Out" was just added to the article by an anon. I've not seen this link come up before; thoughts? fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 13:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I don't understand why people have to set up their own critic site when there's a few good ones already which they can add to. The Amquix and Quixtarblog are well written websites w/ multiple views of opinion. I haven't been through all of the site, but quixtarinsideout.com seems to be a very opinionated site with very little FACTS. I believe if the creator of the site wants to add his site to Wikipedia, he should start a Wikipedia article for the system he was in. If he was in WWDB, then his site might be applicable to that Wikipedia entry. The Quixtar entry, I believe, should try to stay away from specific systems. The mention of motivational organizations and sites like AmQuix are relevant to this entry, but not sites of former IBOs of specific organizations. With all this, I also believe that the BWW "tape analysis" may also not be relevant to this article. If someone wants to take the time to start a BWW article if there already isn't one, then the BWW "tape analysis" site might be more relevant. Have a fun April Fool's Day!
• A few notes:

1. Wikipedian's dont think the "systems" need articles here and have voted twice by overwhelming consensus to merge that information into the Quixtar article. See the archived article for deletion notes on WWDB and TEAM
2. In 1982, DuVos said that the corporation and the "Systems" were joined at the hip, and I agree that that relationship has become only stronger over the last 24 years.
3. Amquix is not a well written site, in my opinion. Its a mix of rants, facts, and conjecture, mixed in with some reader mail in no apparent format.

 Gallwapa 15:15, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Okay, I'm in agreement w/ you on Amquix. And I believe I wrote the above post before WWDB article was deleted. So what do you suggest on making this article better? Should there be a seperate section in this article w/ brief descriptions of each system keeping it as neutral as possible (I promise I'll do my best) keeping in mind not everyone participates in the systems. Discussing pin levels like the Amway article may be too excessive and unnecessary. Maybe a short bio about Dick DeVos and Steve Van Andel? Contributions from Quixtar to charities like Easter Seals, I believe, is important. Like I said before, the Microsoft article, to me, is a great example of a neutral article. I know many people who dislike Bill Gates and other wealthy business owners. Heck, even President Bush's article is more neutral than this one. So, I've found that one of the reasons why IBOs don't succeed is because they don't do what they have set out to do. They don't put action. Will we be seeing good changes to this article? --Illusion408 00:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• your opinions on why IBO's "don't succeed" arent NPOV though :) Becuase my POV is that the "System" I was in didn't maintain its promises. At any rate, I think that "Quixtar" on the whole may be a bit much for Wikipedia, but I would like to point out that quixtarwiki.com has been becoming more and more robust every day. Perhaps we could a notation in the article, "For more specific information on Quixtar terms, leaders, and organizations please visit quixtarwiki?" (And for what its worth, no I do not own that site, I didnt start it, but I do contribute to that wiki because it attempts to be NPOV and get the facts out there) Your thoughts? Gallwapa 17:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am the author of quixtarinsideout.com and I did not add my site to Wikipedia, nor at anytime did I desire to. If someone added it here because they thought that it belonged, then so be it. Whoever said that my site contained very little facts, I suggest you then go through my site before assuming that it is very opinionated with "very little FACTS". There is quite a bit of content out there, and clearly you have not reviewed very much of it with your off the mark critique.

• The thisbiznow.com (and other related sites) site has been added several times to Wikipedia, but has been taken off everytime. So just because someone added your site, doesn't mean it belongs. I have taken an extensive look at your site for about almost an hour now. And then some time before that reading a few of the posts. Where are the facts? Do you consider taking an IBO quote of the week and "analyzing" it based on your experiences are facts? Stating that someone is "full of crap" because it sounds like what your upline Ruby told you is tapespeak. Is that a fact? I never said your site was a bad site. It is based on YOUR experiences. Your experiences are your experiences and though no one can take them away, it cannot be based on what IS Quixtar because there are people out there who do love what they do. I'm going to assume that by me stating that, you might think that the people who do love what they do are "brainwashed". Again, that's YOUR OPINION. As your site may hold a place in the internet "blogging" community, in MY OPINION, it shouldn't be in Wikipedia. Chances are, it probably will because a majority of people editing this site are critical to Quixtar. But just because there are more critics than supporters, doesn't make it a fact. Take a long look at thousands of Wikipedia entries of various companies and individuals. Take a look at President Bush's article. There are hundreds of hate sites and blogs for Bush. Yet, the Wikipedia article is a VERY FACTUAL account of President Bush. I am not a brainwashed IBO because I'm not even in the business. Well, I guess you can call me brainwashed. From my experiences, I have seen mostly good. Much success to you! =) --Illusion408 21:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well clearly you are either not reading what I write, or you are not understanding it. I never said my link belongs here, and I have said that I have never desired to have it here. I don't even care about the Quixtar corporation, my problem is with the motivational organizations that suck money out of everyone they can. So let me say just to make it clear that I could careless if you deleted it or not. It does not surprise me one way or another.

Also, you say you took an extensive look and that you read a few posts before your hour look. Well reading a few posts out of almost 100 is not very impressive. Not to mention that the best articles you can quote are a weekly IBO rebuttal, and another post where I was responding to a comment left on my blog by an IBO who wanted to get sarcastic with me.

That is what you looked at in an hour? You call that an extensive look? Did you listen to one podcast? Did you look at my posts doing the math of going Eagle? Did you see the other posts where I add up the math of the plan showing where the money is going? Did you look at the Answers to IBO facts series? Did you even bother to look at the Things you should know series? I could keep going here but I think I made my point. While my blog may have several opinionated pieces, thus the nature of a personable blog, there is plenty of reading out there giving factual accounts of the other side that many motivational organizations are not telling people.

• Don't get all worked up truth, because it will always be presented as 'your opinion' on the math on going eagle. :P I think the better point would be to start explaining the Quixtar article that there were 559 new platinums in 2005 and the average income for a Q-12 platinum is $41,970... not the $62,000 WWDB claims a first year Q-12 platinum will make... But no one wants to talk about that here...so put the truth on Quixtarwiki, in a NPOV way, and lets move on from there :-). Gallwapa 21:19, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Hmm..it seems there's a misunderstanding. This discussion started because someone placed the link in the article. To answer your questions, yes I did listen to a few podcasts and read through many posts including your story. You assumed that because I didn't mention it, that I didn't look at it? When I said I had an extensive look, that's what I did, not a skim-through. But, as Gallwapa said, it's your opinion. Is a rebuttal to the IBO Chronicles fact? Is Answers to IBO facts, facts? Again, I never said your site was a bad one. I liked the podcast on the taxes. However, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia based on facts, not opinions. The IBO Chronicles site is also a good site, IN MY OPINION, that is based on the owner's perceptions. 559 new Platinums w/ average income of $41,970 is a FACT. That leaves the reader to form HIS OWN OPINION. Average meaning there are Q-12 Platinums earning more as well as less. I understand you're angry and felt lied (spelling?) to. I've learned that you can determined the type of person someone is by what makes him angry. In my perception, you seemed to be very defensive about something that wasn't meant to be an attack. Whenever someone looks for something wrong, they will always find something wrong. Critics have become very good at presenting EVERYTHING said on stage in a negative perception and putting it out as "fact". Am I saying it's wrong? No, because your perception is YOUR REALITY. In, my perception, you have every right to give out your version of the truth and that you're not a loser for quitting. I truly do wish you much success. --Illusion408 21:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Illusion: Lets get one thing clear: $41,970 is the average Q-12 platinum income, and there were 559 new Platinums. Not necessarily Q-12 platinums. Q-12 platinums make at LEAST $10,000 more simply for the Q-12 bonus alone. (lets not forget the extra performance bonus checks for the other months). Saying that $41,970 is the average platinums income could be GROSSLY misstating the facts. Gallwapa 00:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Thank you Gallwapa, I stand corrected. =) I apologize for the mistype. I'll do my best to reread my entries in the future. The average yearly income for a Q-12 Platinum is $41,970 of which, .2440% of all direct fulfillment IBOs in North America (this would exlude WWDB IBOs and any other standard fulfillment IBOs I don't know of).

• Okay, this is by NO MEANS final, but I took the liberty to put a bit of rewriting into the article. what do you folks think? Note: the final version will NOT include the NOWIKI tags, they were put in to prevent new sectioning on this article...if you know a better way to do this please let me know! Gallwapa 01:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• NO ONE? - Its been a week and there hasn't been a single comment. Anyone have any thoughts on these revisions? Yes or no, ya or nay? Gallwapa 20:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quixtar

File:Quixtar logo.png
Company type	Private
Industry	Multi-level marketing
Founded	1999
Headquarters	Ada, Michigan
Key people	Steve Van Andel Doug DeVos Jim Payne
Website	www.quixtar.com

Quixtar is a multi-level marketing company, founded in 1999 by the families of Richard DeVos and Jay Van Andel. Quixtar is now owned by Alticor which also owns Amway. While Access Business Group (also owned by Alticor, Inc.) took over the Amway infrastructure in North America, Quixtar still services "Independent Business Owners" (or IBOs) operating in the Amway business model in the United States, Canada and the Caribbean. It completely replaced Amway in 2001 as the marketing venture for products such as Nutrilite dietary supplements, XS Energy Drinks and Artistry cosmetics in those North American regions.

==Business==

People can join Quixtar as "Clients," "Members" or IBOs. "Clients" pay retail price for products and services from Quixtar.com, "Members" pay a reduced price but do not have the ability to receive bonuses from Quixtar, and IBOs pay a registration fee and build their businesses through retail sales (to clients and members), referring business to Quixtar.com, and by helping other IBOs build similar businesses. Their earnings are based on their business' sales and the volume of sales and purchases of IBOs registered by them.

The primary way to join and buy products at Quixtar's web site is with a referral number from an IBO. The buyer is able to purchase Quixtar's exclusive products as well as products from affiliated stores such as Circuit City, Barnes and Noble and Office Depot on the Quixtar web site. The referring IBO then receives a small percentage ("bonus") of the cost of the purchased goods, with Quixtar-exclusive products yielding a higher bonus per dollar. Quixtar offers a wide range of products for its IBOs to purchase and sell through Quixtar.com.

In 2005 Internet Retailer ranked Quixtar as the number one site in the health and beauty category. It was ranked 14th largest e-commerce site (for revenue) in the same survey. Quixtar sales for fiscal year 2004-2005 were $1.058 billion with $345 million paid out in bonuses and incentives. More than 370,000 Independent Business Owners received a bonus in FY 05 and the Average Monthly Gross Income for “Active” IBOs was $115.

==Movational Organizations==

Starting with Amway, various lines of sponsorship's began to produce and distribute seminars, tapes, and books that distributors could buy for a fee. Owned and operated by high level distributors these motivational organizations, such as WorldWide Dream Builders, TEAM, Britt WorldWide, and others, have been in the crosshairs of critics for years. Critics claim that because the CDs are sold for a profit to another IBO, that there is actually no end consumer, making the "tools business" a pyramid, and that a large part of many of the Diamond pin level IBO's income is from the tools business, instead of from Amway / Quixtar. In the late 1990's, a new contract was drawn up to help settle disputes over the tools known as the BSMAA, or Business Support Material Arbitration Agreement. This contract provides a buy back guarentee, and provides for an arbitration process if a dispute cannot be resolved between two individuals. Some alledge that this arbitration is unfair and it has even been struck down in one state court as "fundamentally Unfair and Unconscionable." It is not possible to join Quixtar without agreeing to the arbitration agreement.

Critics charge that the buy-back guarentee is not a fair one, because it only provides for the original seller to offer a "commercially reasonable rate", but sets no definition of reasonable.

There is also a great deal of controversy surrounding the "Amway/Quixtar Motivational Organizations" (AMOs or AQMOs) owned and operated by high level distributors. Quixtar and the AMOs, such as WorldWide Dream Builders and TEAM, claim that the business skills of IBOs are honed by the business support materials (BSM), or "tools", that are sold by the motivational organizations, and that the support material can be of help to an IBO if he wants to build a big business. Furthermore, during the registration process, IBOs are required to accept an agreement that is intended to make the new distributor aware that the BSMs - books, tapes, CDs, informational literature, seminars, etc. - are purely optional and that requires the above-mentioned AMO/AQMO's (also known as LOA, or Line Of Affiliation) to buy back any defective or unwanted business support materials within a reasonable time frame. New IBOs are also made aware that the producers of these "BSMs" are likely to make money selling them. Undercover investigations (like one done by MSNBC Dateline in 2003-04) also suggest that most the money being earned by the top-level distributors was coming from the "tools" business rather than through selling the products of Quixtar. The TEAM line of sponsorship, founded by Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, offer profit sharing of tool money, with those achieving the Platinum level and above. Though Quixtar representatives declined to appear on the MSNBC special, the company did publish an official "Quixtar Response" website.

Eric Schiebeler, a former Emerald IBO, wrote about his experience in a free e-book entitled Merchants of Deception. In his book he exposes what his opinions on what really happens within the motivational organizations.

==Outreach== The Quixtar corporation and its associated IBO's often perform acts of outreach. During the numerous natural disasters in the US and abroad in 2004 and 2005, Quixtar IBO's have donated hundreds of thousands of dollars of Quixtar products for relief. Quixtar is also a large supporter of the [http://wwm.easterseals.com/site/PageServer?pagename=WWM_04_homepage Easter Seals "Walk with Me" program]. <nowiki>==Supporters==

John C. Maxwell, a famous Christian book author, supports Worldwide DreamBuilders. Paul Harvey, a radio broadcaster, known for his 'The rest of the story' tagline has been an ardent supporter of the Amway program for years. Og Mandino, author of The Greatest Salesman In The World and The Greatest Miracle In The World, has also been a supporter of the Amway program, as well as Robert Kiyosaki [1], author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad and Cashflow Quadrant. Kenneth Copeland and Charles Stanley, well known Christian pastors and authors, have endorsed and spoken at various functions for some of the Motivational Organizations. Former President Ronald Reagan has also spoken at such a conference. Other supporters include MTV's Jeannie Mai, renowned chef and culinary specialist Jason Roberts, heavyweight boxer Evander Holyfield, and motivational author Zig Ziglar.

==Information Control==

In the summer of 2004, Quixtar launched a sophisticated Web initiative designed to manipulate search results. The "Web Reputation Task Force" tried to influence search engines in such a way that links to sites critical of the Quixtar business would be replaced by links to Quixtar-controlled sites. The Task Force's primary tactic was a form of Google bombing that vigorously exploited blogs. Reporter Mark Glaser explained how companies, like Quixtar, "subvert search results to squelch criticism". Greg Duncan, a high ranking distributor in Quixtar and a member of the WWDB organization, openly admitted that WorldWide Group supported Quixtar's effort to Google Bomb at a convention in Portland, Oregon in October 2004 stating, "We have hired our own propeller head geeks, to tell the truth on the Quixtar opportunity and drown out the negative lies on the web with the facts!" This comment was met with thunderous applause and cheering from IBOs.

On several occasions, users operating from IP addresses belonging to Alticor, Quixtar's parent company, have made changes to Wikipedia entries for Quixtar, Amway, and Google bomb in order to remove information pertaining to the company's Google bombing attempt.

==External links ==

Official Quixtar Sites

• Quixtar's Official site
• Quixtar's "Official Facts" site
• Informational website on Quixtar exclusive Vitamin Brand
• Income Statistics, Partnership info, and Testimonialsa

In The News

• Online Journalism Review article about Quixtar
• Dateline NBC report on Quixtar
  • Quixtar's Response to Dateline Story
• Quixtar's Tool Trouble in the Grand Rapids Press

Other Sources

• QuixtarWiki - For all terms related to Amway, Quixtar, or Alticor
• FTC's Ruling on Amway
• Archive of Quixtar information
• Quixtar Blog
• Merchants of Deception, a free eBook about Amway/Quixtar by a former Emerald IBO
• Detailed Analysis of Britt WorldWide Motivational Tapes

Category:Amway Category:Multi-level marketing