Sasanian Empire is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 20, 2006 Good article nominee Listed February 21, 2006 Peer review Reviewed March 20, 2006 Featured article candidate Promoted May 14, 2008 Featured article review Demoted Current status: Former featured article

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20 August 2008

While making a small edit to this article, I saw a Wiki-generated note about the large size of the article and a reference to WP:LENGTH. I do not feel comfortable taking on this project so I wanted to post a note. --*momoricks* (talk) 02:33, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

how did Sassanid Empire rule kuwait althought the city was Built in 1613...!! --Bayrak (talk) 04:43, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well Kuwait was still a land its like saying that the area of London was taken over.so please research first 79.65.109.98 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:20, 10 July 2009 (UTC).[reply]

I removed the following text, because: (1) The edit was placed at the wrong level of detail in this article, i.e. it did not rate a section. (2) The information belonged in a single sentence in /* Art, science and literature */ where it was already as "college of Gundishapur, which had been founded in the 4th century" (Note it was 489 CE which is 5th Century). (3) Gundishapur (Academy of Gundishapur) was included as a main article in the listing under /* Art, science and literature */. (4) No citation was provided for Gundishapur being "the first university in the world". Gunishapur Academy was after the Academy of Plato and after the Nestorian theological and scientific center in Edessa, which was moved to Gunishapur to create the Gunishapur Academy. Which of course ignores developments in China, for which see University#Early history.

/* University */ in time of shapur 1 he built a university of Gundeshapur.this is the firs university in world.Gundeshapur built in Khuzestan.

I guess that covers it. --Bejnar (talk) 19:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

hey guys,

i just wanted to say thanks for putting together this great article. very informative. i do have a question though regarding the green sassanid map. it shows the coastal indian state of gujarat as part of the persian empire in the early-mid 7th century; however, gujarat at that time was firmly a part of the Indian Emperor Harshavardhana's domain. could someone please clarify this for me if I am in error or correct the map if I am not? if you have any primary or scholarly sources regarding this they would be most appreciated. thank you for your help.

Best Regards,

Devanampriya (talk) 06:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The map is biased crap and makes one question the neutrality and historical accuracy of the entire article. It should be replaced. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 15:44, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This map is incorrect. It shows Transoxiana as a part of Sassanid Empire. Sassanid rule never extended to the north of Amu-Darya river. Under the map it also says that this is the map of Sassanid empire under Khosrou II. Khosrou second never ruled Central Asia. During the times of Khosrou Soghdiana was ruled by Ashina Turks and their Soghdian subjects. The article is great, but the map is wrong. This is not a map of Sassanid empire. It is a map that shows nationalist claims of Pan-Iranists. Those are the same people who classify Armenians, Georgians and many other nationalities as Persian simply because at some point their lands were a part of the Persian empire. QoziKalon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by QoziKalon (talk • contribs) 00:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the Sassanid Empire. As there is only one Sassanid Empire, it is not necessary to disambiguate the name by adding "Persian" in front of it, as a editor did on 23 May 2009. It is known as the Sassanid Empire. --Bejnar (talk) 16:51, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Although I agree with your revert, the problem is that most readers would be unaware that the Sassanid Empire is a Persian Empire. "Persia" is, for better or for worse, very commonly used as a shorthand for the Sassanid Empire just as for the Achaemenid one before, and most users will be more familiar with that term, especially in the context of relations with Rome/Byzantium. Perhaps a sentence to that effect could be added somewhere in the lead? Constantine ✍ 16:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is even necessary to put "persian" to the first sentence. In fact a google scholar search shows that "sassanid persian empire" is common. (note this one too). Also as mentioned by you, in terms of Iran Roman relations, the term persian is most of the time mentioned because of "parthian empire". Also if one looks at one of the series "the cambridge history of .." series one sees the usage of "persian sassanid" or better "sassanid persian" is common (note that we have to add up "persian sassanid", "persian sassanids", "persian sassanian", "persian sassanians",...). I think the article should mention that.--Xashaiar (talk) 19:17, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• The lead sentence used to read:

The Sassanid Empire or Sassanian Dynasty (Template:Lang-fa [sɒsɒnijɒn]) is the name used for the third Iranian dynasty and the second -begin ref- "Ardashir succeeded in creating a "Second Persian empire" which was recognized for over four centuries as one of the two great powers in Western Asia and Europe." "Sasanian Dynasty" Encyclopedia Iranica-end ref- Persian empire.

which I thought was quite okay. However, other editors felt that "last pre-Islamic Iranian empire." was less controversial. --Bejnar (talk) 23:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

and why is this comment is a justification for revert? Your reason "As there is only one Sassanid Empire, it is not necessary to disambiguate the name by adding "Persian" in front of it," does not apply as sassanid were part of Persian empire and they saw themselves as heir to previous Persian empire. As said before the term "Sassanid Persian empire" is common in scholarly works and this is all matters. I already gave links to some of books usung the term. Moreover you did not respond to thes points (made by myself and the previous commentator User:Cplakidas on the importance of adjective Persian in almost all works of scholars of Iranian-Roman relations) and gave only an edit summary "I don't think so". The article of EIr mentions explicitly Sassanid as part of Persian empire lineage. This article of EIr and "last pre-Islamic Iranian empire" counts "median, achaemenian, Parthian, and Sassanid" whereas "second Persian" counts "achaemenian and sassanid".--Xashaiar (talk) 23:32, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

IF a name has been used historically, then it is relavant in my opinin. Since relevancy is the main criterion for lead. For example the name of many cities. In this case sassanian in Perso-Arabic has about 1200 years of history and are part of the national consciousness of Iranians. Modern Persian itself being a continuation of middle Persian, with the vocabulary being 80% identical, it is continuation of the language of Sassanids. The word itself is Persian and is not diffeent in either Persian or middle Persian. For example see many Greek related articles. I agree the alphabet of ancient Greek is similar to modern Greek, but the main point is that ancient Greek is the direct ancestor of modern Greek. Middle Persian of Sassanids is also the direct father of modern Persian. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 02:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is the article good enough to have a good article nomination? Warrior4321 20:48, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet.Xashaiar (talk)

I've done some copy-editing to this article, for instance, changing "the last Zoroastrian empire" to "the last pre-Islamic empire" and miscellaneous grammar fixes. However, I'm not sure what the first paragraph is meant to say. The wording as it appeared:

Information is shaky concerning the relationship between Sassan and Ardashir. Sources are not consistent as far as the relationships between the early Sassanids (Sassan, Babak, Ardashir and Shapur) are concerned.

What's unclear? Presumably Sassan is the namesake of the Sassanid Empire, but there's no explanation of what the ambiguity is - or what the significance of the other names is. Although the next paragraph goes on to tell the story of Babak, the way this is written is confusing. Recognizance (talk) 22:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

50 ^ Cite Error: Invalid <ref> tag; no text was provided for refs named iranologie; see Help:Cite errors.

• May someone fix this reference (number 50). --Mahmudmasri (talk) 20:50, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted a self made map. The reason: SHapur I mentions:

I am the ruler of Ērān-šahr and hold these šahrs: Persia,

Parthia, Xuzistān, Mēšān, Assyria, Adiabene, Arabia, Āzerbaījan, Armenia, Geogris, Segan, Albania, Balaskan, up to the Caucasus mountains and the Gates of Albania, and all of the mountain chain of Pareshwar, Media, Gurgan, Merv, Herāt and all of Abaršahr, Kermān, Sīstan, Tūrān, Makrān, Paradene, India, Kušānšahr up to Peshawar and up to Kašgar, Sogdiana and to the mountains of Taškent, and on the other side of the

sea, Oman.

which indicates 1. The map used wrong geographical names. 2. The map did not show the greatest extend of the empire. According to the references above these territories were in Eranshahr at the time of Shapur I and again "continued to the time of Xosraw II in the seventh century CE." Xashaiar (talk)

As I can see from the section above, I am clearly not the only one in having problems with the map present in the infobox, since it has multiple issues. First and foremost, it depicts a supposed "maximum extent" under Khosrau II. No problem with that, except that: territory north of the Caucasus was never ever occupied by the Sassanids, Asia Minor is shown half-controlled by the Persians and half-contested (the Persians did indeed raid it, but never actually occupied and administered any large parts west and north of the Cilicia-Euphrates line for any period of time), and finally, much of Central Asia up to the Aral Sea is shown as under full control, when in fact that control was certainly more nominal than factual in the more outlying regions. No single map (except this one and various obvious derivatives) in any book on the Sassanid Empire shows a similar extent, and even Iranian sites (e.g. [1]). Second, it uses modern borders to delineate Persian influence in Arabia, an obvious fallacy. Third, and indicative of its veracity, its creator apparently had no more than a general knowledge of the relevant history, since he titled it "610 CE". In 610 CE, not even Syria, Palestine and Egypt had yet fallen to the Persians. Frankly, I am amazed that this map has been allowed to stand for so long unchanged. If we want an accurate map of "maximum extent", I'd suggest using these maps which come from actual atlases researched by scholars. Constantine ✍ 09:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PS, Xashaiar, using a ruler's (typically hyperbolic) statement of power, dating 300 years before the date we want to depict, is not the correct way to determine whether a map is correct. The Kings of Spain for instance still claim to be "Dukes of Athens", perhaps we should add Central Greece to the map of Spain? Shapur at some point claimed to be king of the world. By that criterion, let's paint the globe green and be done with it. Constantine ✍ 09:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NO: What a site (In Iran or Aniran) say does not give any reason to replace a "problematic map" with "a more problematic" map. You should also avoid the usual mistakes: geographical Names in ancient time had different meaning than present time. For example: Balkan in the above quote is much different than what you think. Also "africa" problem: Here is a scholarly work] "Altheim-Stiehl“ that indicates "in the early seventh century Husraw II’s forces conquered Egypt and ruled the region for several years, where they even went further west and south, making inroads into Lybia and Nubia." so what more do you need? The current map is not good enough, but the map you included is even more problematic. (I am using the scholarly work here and the references I gave). I wrote the section above to say "why" and not "based on Shapur I", otherwise the map shows exactly what the references above indicate. The point is that at least the current map claims to be "based on a written well preserved book form Sassnid time". The maps on the (Iranian)website you posted are not RS. But I agree that we must solve the problem of map once and for all. Xashaiar (talk)

Xashaiar, please do not make the mistake of taking me for an ignoramus. I know the history of the period quite well, and yes, the Persians conquered Egypt (I even rewrote the relevant article), but in 618-619, not in 610. Read the well-referenced Roman-Persian Wars article or any book on the period and you'll see that I am right. I also know the locations of almost all the names in Shapur's list, and can also spot a nice reference "up to the Caucasus mountains and the Gates of Albania" there, which confirms that Persian authority did not extend north of the Caucasus. The Balkans I never mentioned, you did. And the extent of control in Arabia, with the modern borders, is just silly. The maps I linked to come from researched atlases, and are hosted in the site of a respected university. They are very accurate from what I can tell. According to you however, they are not reliable or accurate. What are their problems, then? I am also quite amazed that you dismiss these clearly sourced maps (to clarify: I don't mean the Iranian one here, but the others) and at the same time advocate using a 3rd-century inscription to verify a 7th-century map... The map I used to replace the current one may not depict "maximum extent", but it is a good approximation of the core of the Sassanian Empire. As another editor said above, the present map is so ridiculous that it makes one question the entire article. To resolve the problem, I suggest we put a request at the Graphic Lab for a map, using the maps I linked to (as the only ones with sufficient detail and from a scholarly source). Constantine ✍ 10:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not misunderstand me. I did not dispute the date of conquering Egypt. What do you mean by "the extent of control in Arabia, with the modern borders, is just silly." Do you dispute the Sassanid control over "Arabia"? The maximum extent of the Eranshahr is "better" depicted in the current map than your map. This map is the best choice we have for 1. Geographical names are not used, whereas "your" maps use wrong ones. We need a map with correct geographical names. 2. The map is a better approximation of Xusro II's empire, at least based on the "book" cited above. 3. The maps on the (ecai)website are copyrighted. 3. please be very specific and tell us "what is your exact problem". Is it Albania or Arabia or Africa or ...? Africa and Arabia are also in the maps in the (ecai)website your posted. D you want this map? I am amazed that you did not point to real problem of the map: Eranshahr had more territories eastward than what the map shows. Xashaiar (talk) 11:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, using the modern colonial-era borders of Oman and Yemen to depict the extent of control of the Sassanids in pre-Islamic Arabia is patently wrong. The maps I linked are more accurate, since they limit the area and show it fading into the hinterland, which was the case. The Sassanids had garrisons on the coasts, but they did not control the country inland in the way a modern state does. For the rest, I explained myself pretty clearly above. As for your fixation with names, the current map uses no names at all. In addition, the maps I linked use the proper names for the period depicted, so I really don't understand this objection of yours. So far, you have not explained what exactly is wrong with any of these maps, just provide generalities. Please point out in detail what you object to in each of them. As for copyrights, I never said import them wholesale. I said, let's go to the Map lab, and they'll make us a map based on them. This map is actually the most detailed map of Sassanian Persia ever produced, but it is a bit too complicated for an infobox. I'd suggest combining it with this one, since you want "maximum extent". Constantine ✍ 11:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By non RS I meant your reference to "even Iranian websites" which was a mistake when arguing. My objection to those come from the fact that "Africa" should be included. (check out this form Sasanian studies or the other references I gave) Give me some time, I will see if sites like the one you gave include "maps with discussions and references". But for the moment I agree with your proposal to combine those maps. Xashaiar (talk) 11:53, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, OK, it appears we were arguing about different things. It was apparently a mistake for me to include the Iranian map, but I only did so by way of comparison. See what you can find and we'll work on it further. Regards, Constantine ✍ 12:13, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]