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What if TNA uses the NWA title history from TNA's inception in 2002 up til now? Meaning all people who won the NWA title under the TNA umbrella will be considered a TNA World Champion? --  Jลмєs Mลxx™  Msg me  01:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who says they'll do that? WCW didn't. TNA has had no problem refering to their wrestlers as former champions of another promotion (which we must now consider the NWA to be), and I don't expect this to change. Everyone before now was an NWA World Champion, and that'll never change. Mshake3 01:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They most likely will put a break in their world title history and note that the NWA World title was the predecessor to the TNA title. TonyFreakinAlmeida 01:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just to entertain the thought for a moment, if TNA does decide to consider TNA-era NWA Champions as TNA Champions, I think we should still begin the lineage with Cage; TNA may've controlled the NWA World Heavyweight Championship from 2002 through last night, but they don't control its lineage. If TNA does take that stance, it should probably get a mention in the history, but the list of former TNA Champions should only reflect post-May 13 title holders. Jeff Silvers 03:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.tnawrestling.com/info/history/tnaworldtitle.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by MC511 (talk • contribs) 03:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well damn. TNA did it. It also looks like somebody has decided to alter the article to reflect TNA's revisionism. TNA has no authority over the NWA World Heavyweight Championship anymore, and I don't think they have the right to decide that former NWA Champions (even those who won the title under TNA's control) are suddenly TNA Champions. Besides, this brings up a troubling point: the NWA still recognizes the TNA-era title holders. So are they NWA or TNA Champions? We can't very well credit each of them with twice as many world titles as they're due. Jeff Silvers 04:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and there's this little note on the official TNA World Heavyweight Championship history between Cage's NWA reign and his TNA reign:

TNA leaves the NWA; NWA World Heavyweight Title is replaced with the TNA World Heavyweight Title.

It probably sounds like a semantic argument, but I think the wording is important here: the TNA World Heavyweight Championship replaced the NWA World Heavyweight Championship, confirming that they are, in fact, separate titles. Jeff Silvers 05:01, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have a feeling that TNA's uploading of the page may have been premature and based on the spoilers for Impact they may be changing the title history to something that makes a bit more sense. TonyFreakinAlmeida 00:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Title Dates --- Wiki intends for us to use the date that any title changes/vacations were aired and not taped. Seeing as TNA tends to do 2 or 3 tapings per show it's possible for someone to win a title in the first hour, then lose it by the third. TNA would count the person's reign as two weeks, so it can't hurt to make the Wiki page(s) accurate along with the way they count. TakerVersion1TakerV1

Christian Cage was NWA World Champion when he was stripped by the National Wrestling Alliance, TNA still recognized Christian as their World champion, so by default, Cage is the first TNA World Champion.

Cage went into Sacrifice as TNA World Champion, Kurt Angle won the match, thus winning the title.

Then Jim Cornette stripped Angle due to the controversial Pin on Cage/Ankle Lock on Sting.

Do not change this list, TNA credits Cage with 3 World Titles (He has 2 NWA World Titles, so that has to make the other one the TNA World Title) and Angle with 1 World Title (for TNA) so that too must be the TNA World Title. By the by, that gives Kurt 7 World Titles overall.

Ohgltxg 20:54 May 26, 2007 (UTC)

I just watched Sacrifice again and they NEVER announced Christain as world heavyweight champion...what they did do was announce Cage as "The defending NWA Champion" which since is untrue NO title was on the line at Sacrifice, so Cage and Angle had no title wins..But the FIRST time that the TNA world title was on the line was Slammiversary...on the pre-show Jeremy Borash said " tonight the King Of The Mountain match will be to crown the FIRST EVER TNA World Champion" and also it was the first time the TNA belt was on the graphic. So basically this proves that Kurt Angle is the FIRST EVER TNA Champion. I am even watching impact right now and they are reffering to Angle as the First TNA Champion.

Tony— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.46.185 (talk) 04:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is the third freaking page you have posted this on. Cage is the first champion, then Angle twice in a row. End of story. Learn to sign your posts. TJ Spyke 04:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tony, Kurt Angle is the first "undisputed" TNA World Champion. Cage was the first champion, and Angle the second.— Preceding unsigned comment added by MC511 (talk • contribs) 20:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the match at Sacrifice was promoted as a NWA Title match— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.1.71 (talk) 05:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

a lot of this is not true. TNA clearly state Angle to have held the title twice. See for yourself: http://www.tnawrestling.com/roster/kurtangle/index.html (86.153.189.238 14:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Please continue your discussion on Talk:TNA World Heavyweight Championship. --Aaru Bui ^DII 00:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Today on iMPACT! at the end they stated this: "The next step in the evolution of the World Heavyweight Championship will be decided this Sunday in King of the Mountain at Slammiversary." While this was being said they showed clips of their first champion, Ken Shamrock, and others such as Ron Killings, Jeff Jarrett, AJ Styles, Raven, Rhino, Christian Cage, Sting, Abyss, and former TNA World Heavyweight Champion, Kurt Angle. This definitely spells it out that the World Heavyweight Champions in TNA are all under the same lineage. It's just that from June 19, 2002 to May 13, 2007, all World Champions in TNA were recognized by the National Wrestling Alliance (NWA). After that, the recognition was dropped and the title was replaced with the TNA World Heavyweight Title, continuing the lineage of World Champions in TNA Wrestling.

Here is what the title history should look like: http://www.cygywrestling.com/titlehistories/tnaworldheavyweighttitle.html MC511 02:20, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong. The NWA and TNA World Titles are 2 completely different entities. Here's another way of putting this: On RAW, Coach said that John Cena would face any former World Champion on the RAW roster at Vengeance. So post-draft that left us with Mick Foley (3 WWE Titles), Bobby Lashley (2 ECW Titles), King Booker (5 WCW, 1 World Title), and Randy Orton (1 World Title). All are considered World Championships, but they all have completely different lineages.

Same theory for TNA, they consider Christian Cage as a 3 time World Champion (2 NWA, 1 TNA), I don't think the intent of the promo was to show that Ken Shamrock on down all held the same title, but merely to show that they were all former World Champions, and that a new name would be added to the list at Slammiversary. Basically, TNA has promoted 2 World Championships, The NWA belt (which they no longer have) and the brand new TNA belt. Both are considered World Titles, but they have different lineages.

Ohgltxg 20:49 15 June, 2007 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.110.150 (talk) 20:52, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It counts, scroll to the bottom of this page to read all about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:TNA_World_Heavyweight_Championship MC511 02:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's too bad that they consider Cage a 2 time champ, not 3. That would be 2 NWA. Says as such on his profile. Projectmayhem44 04:56, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

At the main page of the TNA_World_Heavyweight_Championship

It says that Christian Cage is the first holder of the TNA World Heavyweight Championship.

It's not mentioned here and Kurt Angle is listed as the first. One article needs to be amended. As I understood it, Christian Cage had it, but 'lost it' to Kurt Angle. Now, we can't have both articles saying that Cage was the first TNA champion if he wasn't as the above discussion. Some explanation needs to be put in there.White43 20:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, and I notice it's written here. Why isn't Cage in the table? White43 20:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No Angle is the first TNA Champion— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.1.71 (talk) 05:31, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, no - he's not - it's already been discussed that Cage is. 87.127.178.28 09:43, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cage became the de facto Champion immediatly when he was stripped of the NWA Championship. He was first, even if never announced. -TakerV1— Preceding unsigned comment added by TakerVersion1 (talk • contribs) 03:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Check this out: http://www.tnawrestling.com/news/fullnews2.php?all=1415 MC511 01:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That was just Banks' opinion, not TNA's official stance.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohgltxg (talk • contribs) 17:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Until TNA comes out with an official title history again, we might be forced to use his reasoning, being that's it's official. Mshake3 17:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See the TNA profile of Kurt Angle: "TNA Title History: World Heavyweight Champion (2)"

The title history is Angle, Vacant, Angle (2). --KingOfDX 20:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's been discussed. my opinion is that we should recognize the NWA world title win that TNA claims through this page as it served as a transition to the creation of the TNA World Title, and it is a title no matter who had the rights to it at the time, at this time that's how it is. TonyFreakinAlmeida 02:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Right now I don't have time, but an image of the current champion should go into the lead. The table should be formatted so it can be sortable, see the coding for List of WWF Light Heavyweight Champions in order to add the sortability function for some of the columns. Remove the small text in the tables, add proper templates, external links, and catergories. The TNA World Title page itself should be formatted to something similar to World Heavyweight Championship (WWE). This list should also try to be modeled after other FL's, like the one mentioned above.--Truco 20:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

That unofficial Kurt Angle reign should be listed under the NWA World Heavyweight Title, not TNA World Heavyweight Title. The TNA Title debuted on May 14th, 2007, not May 13th, 2007. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.139.248 (talk) 06:28, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Angle was stripped of the belt and was called TNA World Heavyweight Champion the next day after the event. It makes it an unofficial reign.--WillC 06:30, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Watch the footage. That reign was NULLIFIED! We don't count Super Eric & Kaz on the TNA World Tag Team Titles. We don't count ERIC YOUNG's fucking X-Division Titles, so don't give me this BS now PLEASE! 70.68.139.248 (talk) 21:40, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Remain WP:CIVIL (civil) in discussions please.--Truco 21:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the Title was stripped and the victory was still recognized. This archived page from TNAwrestling.com taken before Slammiversary showed that the title was indeed stripped. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 02:23, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It might sound complicated, but I think there should be a combined page for the belts. It's an unusual situation TNA is in here, but I don't think you get a complete belt history for TNA unless you do this. These belt pages exist to tell a story of the Fed, right? I'm not sure on what to name it and everything, and I do believe it existed at some point, but I think, if it doesn't exist somewhere, it should be remade.

And if it does exist somewhere, it should be linked here. List of World Heavyweight Champions in TNA, maybe. Or maybe edit this page slightly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 02:34, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We had discussed this in the past. We did come close to doing that but never really went through with it. However, I'm still open for discussion. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 02:38, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If we decide to do it I have the article almost finished in a subpage.--WillC 02:40, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I know it's been discussed, but it SHOULD happen. I can't imagine an argument against it. Like I said above, belt histories are important to a company, and to fans doing research. We can keep a "List of TNA World Heavyweight Champion" section separate, but the combined page should be the MAIN one, linking to the TNA World Heavyweight Championship AND NWA World Heavyweight Championship page, and explaining why it's split. TNA considers their wrestler's reigns with the NWA belt as former TNA champions, so the page should exist. In fact, during the PPV tonight he said that Storm held the most Tag Team gold in TNA History. He's counting his reigns as AMW, including Beer Money. The page should get made. 71.230.214.207 (talk) 07:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)The guy from the first one that I forgot to sign.[reply]

I totally agree. 70.68.139.248 (talk) 23:50, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to agree as well. Where's Jeff Jarrett? Where's Christian Cage? Where's AJ Styles? The NWA World Heavyweight Title was recognized as the TNA World Heavyweight Champion too. Once the NWA initials were gone, the TNA initials just came in and resumed the history in TNA. Canamerican (talk) 23:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How many more people need to agree? 71.230.214.207 (talk) 02:38, 14 January 2009 (UTC)First Guy[reply]

A lot. I'm neutral for the record. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 03:09, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well then, I agree too that we need to include the entire history. MC511 (talk) 07:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We would have to create a new page to include the entire history then. We can't on this page because that would be incorrect and against certain policies.--WillC 07:50, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry hold on... before we go any further, does anyone have an actual source from TNAwrestling.com that states their TNA title includes NWA title reigns of TNA? ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 07:56, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No.--WillC 08:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

...I don't want to sound like a Hole...but... Then???^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 08:06, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, you and me have talked about this before, I don't got much of a reason but have a reason. I know having no source is going to stop us from doing this but I'm still for it. It is apart of TNA's history, though having the NWA Championship history will do fine I still think a List of World Heavywieght Champions in TNA article would be useful.--WillC 08:37, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it will have to be a new page, I said that. Read my post. BUT, I am sure proof would be easy to come by. On television they always mention anyone who was a NWA Champion as a former TNA champion - I gave an example above. Tenay also called Rhino a former champion on that show as well. The list goes on, it'll only take a little research to find something on the site that says it. But yeah, read my posts, because a lot of what is being criticized is what I have already gone over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 22:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.tnawrestling.com/content/view/243/37/ This is a link to Rhino's page. It contains a Youtube video of him giving an interview. In the Interview, around 1:30, he says "My most memorable moment would probably be winning the TNA World Heavyweight Title." I believe we can put this to rest now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 01:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We can't credit them as TNA World Heavyweight Champions though. It is clear that TNA recognizes Angle as the first official champion. So then finding a source that says TNA believes that the TNA Title continues the NWA Championship history is needed. Not a seeming statement.--WillC 01:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What I am looking for is a specific source from TNAwrestling.com that contains a list ot the reign history of the TNA World Heavyweight and World Tag Team Championship. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 02:54, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well that is completely unrealistic. TNA isn't going to do that. They don't have such a page up. But when they talk about their champions, they talk about them all as TNA World Heavyweight Champions. That Rhino clip is an example. And, TNA recognized Angle as the first TNA World Heavyweight Champion when they brought the belt in. That was a storyline part. That's well in the past now. I don't think you can use that as a reference. The fact is, any wrestler in TNA who was around for the NWA Belts is referred to now as a TNA Champion. It's out there, there's plenty of examples. If you are waiting for an official from TNA to come here and say "IT'S OKAY GUYS" or a page on www.tnawrestling.com to go up saying "This is for Wikipedia", it'll never happen. This should be more than enough proof for you. It's something produced by TNA, and they wouldn't let something like that go by without notice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 04:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

completely unrealistic? Really? ...Really? It is completely unrealistic for a wrestling promotion to list its history of champions on its website? I could believe that for an indy promotion, but TNA? Hell, even then, I have yet to see an indy promotion that does have a website that doesn't have a list of its previous champions somewhere on it. Now while I am 110% aware that TNA refers to all of its previous champions as TNA Champions, where have they specifically, and I mean specifically, stated that they acknowledge previoius NWA title reigns within TNA as having composed part of the histories of the current TNA titles? Other than verbal references that can also very well be argued to only be alluding to something else, there is presently nothing that can be used as a legitimate source to support your argument in this scenario. Now, as for a reply to this ... "If you are waiting for an official from TNA to come here and say "IT'S OKAY GUYS" or a page on www.tnawrestling.com to go up saying "This is for Wikipedia", it'll never happen." ...you have no idea do you? What if I told you that TNA did just that in the past? What if I told you that in the past TNA has done things to conform to Wikipedia specifically? ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 05:21, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If TNA bows down to Wikipedia's power, then ask them to make their pictures copyright-less. But seriously dude, it IS completely unrealistic. There is enough proof, there is no reason to wait for a "List of TNA World Heavyweight Champions" page from TNA itself, and then copy it. Yes, I know they did it in the past, but these mini-biographies are here to replace the old site's design, and you don't think the mini biographies are enough proof. My point is it is unrealistic in the kind of proof that you want. Sometimes you just can't get the perfect source. But the sources we have are fine. They're from TNA, they refer to NWA Champions as TNA Champions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 09:01, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By your logic, I guess its ok, but not by Wikipedia's. As far as Wikipedia is concerned, No source, No can do. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 09:11, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dude. You are not Wikipedia. TNAWrestling calls all the NWA Heavyweight Champions from TNA TNA Heavyweight Champions. I have provided proof. You acknowledged the proof. It is not something anyone denies. What more could anyone ask for? Shall we petition Dixie Carter to make you happy? Shall we mass-email TNA to get them to admit it? What if I find an iMPACT Preview that refers to someone as a former champion? In text? Or will you ONLY be satisfied with a list of champions? Because this is getting insane. Why don't we take a vote and just see the votes for against your vote against and decide that way? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 06:28, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sure... I'm not Wikipedia. Take it to WP:PW's talk page and see what happens. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 06:42, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Someone is on a bit of a power trip. Do you really think you are being a good Wikipedia Editor if you see everyone disagreeing with you over something, but you stand firm? What is your issue with this? We have all agreed TNA calls their former champions TNA champions. I don't even understand what more is needed. But arrogance and attitude because you have more power than others on this website will just make you look like the typical Wikipedia editor stereotype that is plaguing this site. You really want to be like that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 08:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying I'm being or wanting to be like anything. I'm just telling you straight up that If you want to get anything done regarding this, take it to WP:PW's talk page and present your proposal. I'm just telling you right now that I've been through this up and down long enough to know what's going to happen. Seriously, take your proposal to WP:PW. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 22:47, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah sorry, I misinterpreted. I left a note on there. I don't see why this is taking so long, this discussion has been going on since the belt was formed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 02:26, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

People may not have seen your note. Try posting a new topic at the very bottom of the page. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 02:30, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with adding the NWA Champions to this page at all. It is widely known that TNA says Angle is the first TNA World Heavyweight Champion. There is no source that states TNA believes the NWa Championship history moves over into the TNA Championship history. They believe it starts with Angle and goes to Sting.--WillC 02:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

TNA made a big deal out of the new belt, as they wanted people to understand what was going on and make a storyline out of it. When was the last time they mentioned Kurt Angle as the first TNA Champion? They have consistently referred to wrestlers who won the NWA Belts as "former TNA champions". I don't think you can overlook that. And they will continue to do that, and they will never mention Kurt as the first TNA belt holder again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.214.207 (talk) 08:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

They announced Kurt as the first champion just a little more than a month ago. When Angle was fighting Rhino at Final Resolution with his job on the line, TNA showed the top 5 moments in TNA that Kurt has done. One of those was winning the 2007 King of the Mountain at Slammiversary 07 to become the first official TNA World Heavywieght Champion. TNA Champion can mean many things. TNA World Heavywieght Champion can mean world champion in TNA. In this case common sense is used since TNA has yet to state that the TNA Title continued the NWA Championship history. Since Shamrock held the NWA Title, he is credited as a NWA Champion and not a TNA Champion since he held and won the NWA Belt before the TNA Title was ever in consideration to be made or even in the forseeing future. TNA's history is revisionism and on here we have guidelines to obey. No source that the history is continued it can't be added. The only thing that can be made is a new list of world champions in TNA. TNA has contridcted itself. They state Angle is the first champion. It is known he is the first champion, nothing can change that.--WillC 09:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I will be okay with this mess if we don't include that unrecognized reign from Sacrifice with Kurt Angle. That win was nullified by Jim Cornette, just like Eric Young's X-Division Title reigns. Canamerican (talk) 22:06, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Angle's reign is true. It was determined by a consensus and Young's second reign exist. He was stripped of the belt which means it was a reign.--WillC 22:09, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The title was stripped and Angle's victory was still recognized. This archived page from TNAwrestling.com taken before Slammiversary showed that the title was indeed stripped. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 22:27, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why are we even fighting over Belt History? I clearly said we should make a combined page of TNA World Heavyweight Champions, separate from the TNA World Heavyeight Champion Belt Page and History.71.230.214.207 (talk) 00:45, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]