Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (February 2005 to September 2005):
• Archive 2 (next to start):

• The Flashback Characters section feels like a great big mess to me, and with Season 2 introducing new characters and continuing the tradition of flashbackery, it seems like this section will simply continue to grow. Anyone else think it's time to give it a trim? Baryonyx 19:26, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify, what I believe we need to do is determine which Flashback Characters are critical, and which aren't. If they're there simply for background (like, say Lily in Charlie's "Exodus" flashback, or the couple in Sun and Jin's flashbacks), they don't need to be here. Nor should hypothesized things like "Unnamed woman". IMHO, the MAJOR flashback characters are obvious: (I know all the names of these characters, just not using them to make it clear who I mean) Jack's father and wife, Locke's mother and father, Charlie's brother and lady friend, Jin's father, Sun's father, Sawyer's partner and his target, Sayid's friend and lady friend, Kate's childhood friend, her mother and the farmer, Claire's boyfriend and the psychic, Hurley's psych ward friend and the wife, and Walt's mother and step-father. I realize that's still a steep list, but these are the biggest ones. The way I think we can reformat this is into some sort of tabled list, including Character Name, Actor Name, Related To, and Episodes. We don't need the mini-biographies, I think. Baryonyx 19:43, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this. It is quite a mess and no doubt will continue to get worse. These "extras" are why we link to IMDB most of the time, IMHO. K1Bond007 19:48, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Would it make sense to limit it to characters who appear in two or more episodes? Those who appear in only one episode are self-contained, and maybe they could be mentioned on the major character page for the flashbacker if appropriate. So far we have only five recurring (multi-episode) flashback-only characters: Jack's father, Jack's wife, Locke's father, Hurley's mother and Walt's mother. Ahkond 18:35, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I actually cut this section down that day, under the Be Bold proviso. The table you see now used to be a long list of text. The characters there now are the ones who have pretty strong influences on the lives of the characters. Could it be trimmed down more? Yes... but when making the current list, I had to ask myself which was better: having a longer table, including perhaps a couple more that could be excised, or having a shorter table that will be crufted to death because someone was upset I ignored say... Locke's mother. I went with the longer list. There have been additions to that list that I don't think we're necessary (Jack's mother, for one... she is of minor importance compared to Christian and Sarah). We can discuss which ones can be cropped out if you'd like. Baryonyx 03:23, 14 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm also of the opinion that the information contained in the Non-Televised Characters is of little value and probably falls beyond the scope of what is appropriate for this page (should be fansite material), and with the exception of Dr. Arzt and US Marshal Mars, the Other Survivors section is also unneeded. IMHO, this page should focus only on those characters that have proven pivotal to the plot, be it on or off the island, in some way. No one in the Non-Televised Characters section has, and I'm not of the opinion that most of the Other Survivors have really stood out yet (being a running joke, half of which is dead doesn't count). When characters like Scott, Steve, Tourniquet Man, etc. begin having major speaking roles and influencing action, we can add them back. But for now, I'd say remove those two sections entirely, and move Dr. Arzt and US Marshal Mars to Secondary Characters. Baryonyx 21:30, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I decided to remove the sections I discussed above under the be bold Wikipedia convention. I am not replicating the removed material here to save on talk page space. Baryonyx 04:17, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Time again to remind folks that Wikipedia is not the place to try out novel theories, suppositions or guesswork, all of which falls under the Wikipedia:No Original Research Policy. While some uncited material may slip into the Lost character articles due to its nature as a "mystery show," that shouldn't suggest it's ok to further add one's own ideas of the meaning or nature of characters, without citation from an authoritative source. Thus, I've removed the new speculative "Name Origins" by anonymous editor 70.27.35.171. If someone can provide verifiable and reliable sources that the "meaning" ascribed to the character's names actually reflect the writers' process in naming them (referenced in series' promotional materials, for example), I'd be happy to see the sections re-included. While they may be interesting and thought-provoking, such material is probably best left to fan Web sites. (That's not to say, of course, that they shouldn't be brought up for discussion on the Talk pages, for possible inclusion in the articles.) LeFlyman 15:35, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The section heading indicates that these are people seen ONLY in flashbacks, not on the island. If we wanted to be technical, Desmond is not the only flashback character to appear on the island. Through Boone, Sawyer is both a flashback character and a main character. Similar conclusions can be reached concerning all the main survivors (including Rose, Arzt, and the marshal). I personally do not think we need repetitious information on the same page, and placing an entry for Desmond in Flashback Characters and Secondary Characters does just that. Citing these two reasons, I've removed him from Flashback Characters. Baryonyx 03:57, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that someone has identified by name and possible reference, the symbol on the locker used by Desmond in his underground lair-- although, I did not see it on his uniform. However, there was also a very unusual design on Desmond's shirt in the "stadium running" flashback with Jack, which I've screencapped here:

Can anyone identify what this is, as it was shown repeatedly and clearly in multiple shots while Desmond was holding up Jack's ankle? Is it just me, or does it seem to be reminiscent of the "Anarcho-punk" symbol, such as this one: http://www.ahherald.com/images/news/2004/anarchy.jpg ? There's even what looks like an "A", in black, on the right of the design, turned on its side -- LeFlyman 16:55, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• The two-headed eagle is an old symbol for various things. It was introduced by Charlemagne as a symbol for his kingdom (the original Holy Roman Empire) with the two heads signifying Rome and Germany, but it was also used by the latter Byzantines. It was later used as a symbol for the Holy Roman Empire and for Austria and/or Germany, as well as imperial Russia (which saw itself as a successor to the Byzantine empire). It is also a symbol for a type of high-level Freemason; see http://scottishritemasons-can.org/eagle.htm. Similarly it was used as a symbol for the Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, Knights Hospitaller (see http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/gms/eagle.htm). Ahkond 17:59, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• It's a pentagon surrounding what looks to be a representation of a phoenix. The pentagon is significant because its interior angles are 108°. Beyond the mythical symbolism of rebirth, I'm not sure why the phoenix would be significant at this time. I'm ignoring the bar at this moment, since it is perfectly horizontal, does not conform to the contours of the shirt, and looks to be overlaying the entire image. I'd need a bigger screencap including the bar before I'd consider it part of the image. On another note... that looks exactly like a lightened version of an image on The Fuselage. Did you post it there too? If not, there's a thread there about this as well. Baryonyx 18:06, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Double-headed eagle... hadn't thought of that one. Good call Ahkond. Makes it seem even less likely that this is meant to reflect the anarchist symbol to me then, given the heritage of the symbol. Baryonyx 18:10, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • File:Smallscreen.jpg

    I did a screencap and clipped out the symbol from the shirt. I increased the contrast in order to improve the visibility-- thus it appears lightened. The horizontal bar is actually a design element on Desmond's knit shirt... but the double-headed eagle-phoenix and strange pentagon shape are clearly "overlayed" on the shirt. Here's a reduced version of the full screen cap.

In looking at the larger one Baryonyx pointed out on The Fuselage, I think it may be as likely to be a phoenix/firebird-- with the second "head' looking more like a crown-- than a two-headed eagle, particularly as it is colored red, Plus, the symbolism of a phoenix is more appropriate. Compare, for example to this: http://www.singaporerooms.net/images/phoenix-logo.jpg --LeFlyman 19:49, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• • • For those interested, the German version is known as a Bundesadler. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I removed information claiming that Desmond appears in an as of yet unaired episode. Even if the contributor does have advance knowledge of episode information, the cite is not verifiable, and therefore does not meet Wikipedia guidelines for inclusion. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Ana-Lucia listed in the "Deceased" section? The section serves as a running headcount total, where we keep track of how many survivors of the plane crash are on the island. I would propose that the section be renamed "Headcount", where additions like the tail section group and the birth of Aaron would fit more sensibly. Ana-Lucia already has a separate page, but we should list other members of her party (Libby, Bernard, etc.) above in the Secondary section. If they take on strong roles, they could then be promoted to primary characters with their own pages; either way, a "headcount" section could simply refer the reader elsewhere. Ahkond 16:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Headcount section, as opposed to deceased sounds better, given what the section is becoming. As for Ana-Lucia, Michelle Rodriguez is listed as a cast regular this season, which is why this character has earned a separate page already (as we've discussed on the main talk page). Everyone else from the tail section (including Bernard, and other guests with sizeable roles), should be listed in Secondary Characters or left for the IMDB Guest Stars page. Baryonyx 19:20, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks. I'll plan to make this change in a day or so to give people more time to comment here. Ahkond 21:49, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Section changed to "Census" and has counts both flight 815 and people already on the island. Rillian 01:47, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think that "Writers Assistant Matt Ragghianti" shouldn't be deemed a more reputable source than Locke in Orientation, saying there were 43 in his group. Ethan was part of the count when it was declared there were 48. Also, when Hurley did the census after Marshal Mars died and another girl drowned, he says this:

Hurley: We've got a problem. The manifest, Jack, the census, the names of everyone who survived, all 46 of us. I interviewed everyone. Here, at the beach, got their names. One them, one of isn't... Jack! One of them isn't in the manifest. He wasn't on the plane.

Hurley counted Ethan, and thus Ethan was part of the 48. That means there's presently 43 mid-section survivors, with 4 who went rafting, and Locke was correct in Orientation.--Trypsin 20:13, 14 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]