Talk:2008–09 Premier League: Difference between revisions
Content deleted Content added
El Pollo Diablo (talk | contribs) |
82.240.207.81 (talk) →Table: new section |
||
| Line 561: | Line 561: | ||
::Fair enough! Regardless of the legal situation, there's probably enough consensus anyway. Like I said, bah. I'm off to draw a willy on [[Richard Scudamore]]'s head. --[[User:El Pollo Diablo|El Pollo Diablo]] ([[User talk:El Pollo Diablo|Talk]]) 19:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC) |
::Fair enough! Regardless of the legal situation, there's probably enough consensus anyway. Like I said, bah. I'm off to draw a willy on [[Richard Scudamore]]'s head. --[[User:El Pollo Diablo|El Pollo Diablo]] ([[User talk:El Pollo Diablo|Talk]]) 19:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC) |
||
== Table == |
|||
For you guys... if you want to add a schedule here or in a "Football in England in 2009" article. [[Special:Contributions/82.240.207.81|82.240.207.81]] ([[User talk:82.240.207.81|talk]]) 20:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC) |
|||
{| class="tocccolours" style="font-size:90%;text-align:center;border-collapse:collapse;" width=100% cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" |
|||
|- align="center" |
|||
!width=4%| !!width=8%|July!!width=8%|August!!width=8%|September!!width=8%|October!!width=8%|November!!width=8%|December!!width=8%|January!!width=8%|February!!width=8%|March!!width=8%|April!!width=8%|May!!width=8%|June |
|||
|- |
|||
|1||tue.||fri.||'''mon.'''||bgcolor="darkblue"|<font color="white">Matchday 2</font>||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|11||mon.||thu.||sun.||sun.||'''Ukraine'''||fri.||'''mon.''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|2||wed.||sat.||'''tue.'''||bgcolor="green"|First round||sun.||tue.||fri.||mon.||mon.||thu.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|35||'''tue.''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|3||thu.||sun.||'''wed.'''||fri.||mon.||bgcolor="green" rowspan=2|Matchday 4||bgcolor="firebrick"|<font color="white">Round of 64</font>||tue.||bgcolor="lightskyblue" rowspan=2|28||fri.||sun.||'''wed.''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|4||fri.||mon.||'''thu.'''||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|7||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Matchday 4</font>||sun.||wed.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|31||mon.||'''thu.''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|5||sat.||tue.||'''fri.'''||sun.||fri.||mon.||thu.||thu.||sun.||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Semi-finals</font>||'''fri.''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|6||sun.||wed.||'''''Andorra'''''||'''mon.'''||bgcolor="green"|Matchday 2||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|16||rowspan=2 bgcolor="lavender"|Semi-finals 1<sup>st</sup> leg||fri.||fri.||mon.||'''''Kazakhstan''''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|7||mon.||thu.||'''sun.'''||'''tue.'''||fri.||sun.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|25||bgcolor="firebrick"|<font color="white">Quarterfinals</font>||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Quarterfinals</font>||bgcolor="green"|Semi-finals||'''sun.''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|8||tue.||fri.||'''mon.'''||'''wed.'''||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|12||mon.||thu.||sun.||sun.||fri.||'''mon.''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|9||wed.||sat.||'''tue.'''||'''thu.'''||sun.||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Matchday 6</font>||fri.||mon.||mon.||bgcolor="green"|Quarterfinals||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|36||'''tue.''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|10||thu.||[[Community Shield|Shield]]||'''''Croatia'''''||'''fri.'''||mon.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|21||tue.||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Round of 16</font>||fri.||sun.||'''Andorra''' |
|||
|- |
|||
|11||fri.||mon.||thu.||'''Kazakhstan'''||rowspan=2 bgcolor="lavender"|Round of 16||thu.||sun.||wed.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|32||mon.||thu. |
|||
|- |
|||
|12||sat.||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">3<sup>rd</sup> p. round</font>||fri.||'''sun.'''||fri.||mon.||thu.||bgcolor="green"|Round of 16||sun.||tue.||fri. |
|||
|- |
|||
|13||sun.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|4||'''mon.'''||thu.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|18||tue.||fri.||fri.||mon.||wed.||sat. |
|||
|- |
|||
|14||mon.||bgcolor="green"|2<sup>nd</sup> p. round||sun.||'''tue.'''||fri.||sun.||wed.||bgcolor="firebrick"|<font color="white">Round of 16</font>||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|29||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Quarterfinals</font>||thu.||style="border:2px solid black; border-bottom:2px solid white"|sun. |
|||
|- |
|||
|15||tue.||fri.||mon.||'''''Belarus'''''||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|14||mon.||thu.||sun.||sun.||fri.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|mon. |
|||
|- |
|||
|16||wed.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|1||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Matchday 1</font>||thu.||sun.||tue.||fri.||mon.||mon.||bgcolor="green"|Quarterfinals||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|37||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|tue. |
|||
|- |
|||
|17||bgcolor="green"|1<sup>st</sup> p. round||sun.||fri.||'''mon.'''||bgcolor="green" rowspan=2|Matchday 5||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|22||tue.||tue.||fri.||sun.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|wed. |
|||
|- |
|||
|18||fri.||'''mon.'''||bgcolor="green"|First round||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|8||'''tue.'''||sun.||bgcolor="green" rowspan=2|Round of 32||bgcolor="green" rowspan=2|Round of 16||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|33||mon.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|thu. |
|||
|- |
|||
|19||bgcolor="#ddddff" rowspan=2|Third round||'''tue.'''||fri.||sun.||'''''Germany'''''||fri.||mon.||bgcolor="firebrick"|<font color="white"><u>Semi-finals</u></font>||tue.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|fri. |
|||
|- |
|||
|20||'''''Czechia'''''||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|5||mon.||thu.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|18||rowspan=2 bgcolor="lavender"|Semi-finals 2<sup>nd</sup> leg||fri.||fri.||mon.||bgcolor="green"|<u>Finale</u>||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|sat. |
|||
|- |
|||
|21||mon.||thu.||sun.||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Matchday 3</font>||fri.||sun.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|26||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|30||tue.||thu.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|sun. |
|||
|- |
|||
|22||tue.||fri.||mon.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|15||mon.||thu.||sun.||sun.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|33||fri.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|mon. |
|||
|- |
|||
|23||wed.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|2||rowspan=2 bgcolor="lavender"|Third round||bgcolor="green"|Matchday 1||sun.||tue.||fri.||mon.||'''mon.'''||thu.||sat.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|tue. |
|||
|- |
|||
|24||thu.||sun.||fri.||mon.||wed.||bgcolor="firebrick"|<font color="white">Round of 32</font>||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Round of 16</font>||'''tue.'''||fri.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|38||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|wed. |
|||
|- |
|||
|25||fri.||mon.||thu.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|9||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Matchday 5</font>||thu.||sun.||'''wed.'''||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|34||mon.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|thu. |
|||
|- |
|||
|26||bgcolor="#ddddff" rowspan=2|Third round||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">3<sup>rd</sup> p. round</font>||fri.||sun.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|19||mon.||bgcolor="green"|Round of 32||'''thu.'''||sun.||tue.||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|fri. |
|||
|- |
|||
|27||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|6||mon.||bgcolor="green"|Matchday 3||sat.||bgcolor="lightskyblue" rowspan=2|23||fri.||'''fri.'''||mon.||bgcolor="darkblue"|<font color="white"><u>Finale</u></font>||style="border-left:2px solid black; border-right:2px solid black"|sat. |
|||
|- |
|||
|28||mon.||bgcolor="green"|2<sup>nd</sup> p. round||sun.||bgcolor="lightskyblue" rowspan=2|10||fri.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|20||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|27||'''sat.'''||bgcolor="darkblue" rowspan=2|<font color="white">Semi-finals</font>||thu.||style="border:2px solid black; border-top:2px solid white"|sun. |
|||
|- |
|||
|29||tue.||fri.||mon.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|16||mon.||thu.|| ||'''sun.'''||fri.||mon. |
|||
|- |
|||
|30||wed.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|3||bgcolor="darkblue"|<font color="white">Matchday 2</font>||thu.||sun.||tue.||fri.|| ||'''mon.'''||bgcolor="green"|Semi-finals||bgcolor="firebrick"|<font color="white"><u>Finale</u></font>||tue. |
|||
|- |
|||
|31||bgcolor="green"|1<sup>st</sup> p. round||sun.|| ||fri.|| ||wed.||bgcolor="lightskyblue"|24|| ||'''tue.'''|| ||sun.|| |
|||
|- align="center" |
|||
!width=4%| !!width=8%|July!!width=8%|August!!width=8%|September!!width=8%|October!!width=8%|November!!width=8%|December!!width=8%|January!!width=8%|February!!width=8%|March!!width=8%|April!!width=8%|May!!width=8%|June |
|||
|} |
|||
{| class="toccolours" style="font-size:90%;text-align:center" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" |
|||
|- |
|||
|width=8%|sun.||width=12%|Day without any match||width=8%|'''sun.'''||width=16%|International fixtures break||width=8%|'''Andorra'''||width=12%|[[England national football team|England's]] international fixture |
|||
|- |
|||
|Ukraine||Home match||''Kazakhstan''||Away match||<u>Finale</u>||Neutral venue |
|||
|- |
|||
|bgcolor="lightskyblue"|1||''[[Premier League]]'' matchday||bgcolor="firebrick"|<font color="white">Round of 64</font>||[[FA Cup]]||bgcolor="lavender"|Round of 16||''League Cup'' (possible dates) |
|||
|- |
|||
|bgcolor="darkblue"|<font color="white">Matchday 1</font>||[[UEFA Champions League]]||bgcolor="green"|First round||[[UEFA Cup]]||bgcolor="#ddddff"|Third round||[[Intertoto Cup]] |
|||
|- |
|||
|style="border:2px solid purple;"|'''''sat.'''''||[[Gold Cup]] 2009 (juin)||style="border:2px solid black;"|'''''sat.'''''||[[FIFA Confederations cup 2009]] |
|||
|}<noinclude> |
|||
[[fr:Modèle:Calendrier English Premier League 2008-2009]] If there's a copyright on this schedule, don't forget you can still watch it in French here : [[fr:Championnat d'Angleterre de football 2008-2009]]... |
|||
</noinclude> |
|||
Revision as of 20:45, 15 July 2008
 | Football: England Low‑importance | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
Confirmed Teams
A club's survival in the premiership is confirmed NOT by whether or not the club in 18th place can theoretically finish above above the first club, but by whether or not ALL but the bottom 2 clubs can finish above them. This is as of 5th April 2008 true of the following clubs:
Arsenal, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Portsmouth and West Ham United.
If you want to find out whether or not a club's survival is confirmed, download a spreadsheet that calculates league standings Funkyduncan (talk) 09:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- You're right, of course, but I'd thank you to look at all the evidence first - Man Utd and Arsenal, even when I editted the article before the last round, could not be caught by the teams in 19th and 20th, which meant the deciding factor over whether any team will for certain still be in the Premier League next season is, ignoring all the effects of the 19th and 20th placed teams, could all other teams finish above any one team in the league. In the case of Arsenal and Man Utd, it was, and still is (obviously) impossible for the 18th placed team to finish above either of them, for the reasons given. Thus, Arsenal and Man Utd are guaranteed 17th or higher, and thus, they are guaranteed to survive relegation this season, thus validating my decision to edit the article. Falastur2 (talk) 21:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Personally, I don't think any teams can be guaranteed “safety”, even the three mentioned above. What happens if one of these teams gets a points deduction, or kicked out of the League for some breach of rules? Unlikely, but possible! Just a thought, glennb28 t/c 17:13, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
- You could mention an assumption of no points deductions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Funkyduncan (talk • contribs) 22:04, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
- Technically you're right, yes, but there's been cautious and there's going to far (no offence meant, of course). Yes, you're right that something might happen, but the chance is so small, and the situations where this kind of assertion helps Wikipedia are so numerous, that I can't help thinking it would be foolish to leave out everything that may be invalidated thus. If you follow that line, you can essentially dismiss all future events as uncertain, and to do this I believe would hinder Wikipedia and its goals rather than helping them. To all intents and purposes, these teams have qualified for Premier League football next year. I agree with Funkyduncan's idea, though. Falastur2 (talk) 22:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
- Personally, I don't think any teams can be guaranteed “safety”, even the three mentioned above. What happens if one of these teams gets a points deduction, or kicked out of the League for some breach of rules? Unlikely, but possible! Just a thought, glennb28 t/c 17:13, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Portsmouth are mathematically safe because although all the teams from Bolton Wanderers up to Aston Villa can finish above Portsmouth individually, they cannot all do it simultaneously Funkyduncan (talk) 10:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Aston Villa's survival was confirmed when Newcastle drew with Birmingham City; a result that rendered it impossible for Bolton Wanderers, Birmingham City, Newcastle United, Reading and Sunderland to all simultaneously finish above Aston Villa. Funkyduncan (talk) 22:14, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Manchester City's survival was confirmed when Bolton Wanderers lost 2-0 to Manchester United, rendering it impossible for the teams that as of 19th March 2008 occupy 11th to 18th spots, to simultaneously finish above Manchester City in the league Funkyduncan (talk) 22:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Why does it say Derby are guaranteed survival?83.104.60.60 (talk) 15:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
- Almost certainly graffiti, it's been changed back now. Falastur2 (talk) 23:37, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
West Ham United's survival was confirmed when Bolton Wanderers lost 4-0 to Aston Villa, rendering it impossible for Bolton to catch up with West Ham Funkyduncan (talk) 19:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Both Tottenham Hotspur and Newcastle United are save when Birmingham City lost 1-5 to Aston-Villa on April, 20, so it is mathematically impossible for Birmingham City to catch up those teams.
Championship teams
As of 28th March 2008, 22 teams can theoretically be promoted from the championship. All except Scunthorpe United and Colchester United. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Funkyduncan (talk • contribs) 10:19, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- Leicester cannot as plymouth and ipswich still have to play each other, thus causeing them to get at least one point between them, and so they cannot be caught. MotorSportMCMXC (talk) 14:45, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- No they don't, Plymouth's remaining fixtures are Coventry, Charlton, Sheff Wed, PNE, Blackpool and Wolves. Funkyduncan (talk) 14:27, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
why is it not possible for Southampton to finish in the top 6 when Sheffield Wednesday can? - oahiyeel talk 09:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
- Because of the number of games left to play. Southampton have five games left - a maximum of 15 points. Wolves are the only team in the top 6 they could catch with 15 points - Wolves are exactly 15 points above. Wolves also have to play both Ipswich and Plymouth, who are one and two points beneath them respectively. If Wolves get even a single point from those two games, then they become uncatchable by Soton. If Wolves get no points from those games, then it means both Ipswich and Plymouth score three points, overtaking Wolves and thus being uncatchable themselves, meaning Soton can't reach the top 6.
- The Wednesday, on the other hand, have two extra games more than Soton - a maximum of 21 points left to win - and are only one point beneath them - that in the case of mathematical possibility makes them five points higher than Soton (six points for two theoretical wins, minus one point for being beneath Soton) which just about precludes them from any of these slightly-complicated "where will points have to be awarded" games that I just played with Wolves, Ipswich and Plymouth. Falastur2 (talk) 14:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
- Ok, I understand now. Thanks for the clarification :) - oahiyeel talk 15:36, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Wikinews invitation
Wikinews needs people to write news and match reports for the FA Premier League. To sign-up, please go here. Please let me know if and when you sign-up here. Kingjeff (talk) 14:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Fixtures
THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS Template:Fb r2 header
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r PPD Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r 13/01 Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r Template:Fb r
Managerial changes
There's been a bit of a dispute over what belongs here. I'd just like to point out that the season starts on the 1st of July, and so the Chelsea job in my opinion does not belong in this article - it didn't happen in this season. Also, the Blackburn job has not been resolved yet but there's no certainty - in fact there's a high likelihood - that it will be filled before 1st July. Unless we reach the 1st July with that vacancy still unfilled, then it doesn't yet belong to this article. If anyone disagrees, especially in light of the edit war last night, I'd very much appreciate them speaking up and hearing their reasons for disagreeing, because I'm not really sure why those edits would be left in otherwise. Falastur2 (talk) 13:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Well, Scolari doesn't actually take up the post of Chelsea manager until 1 July, so that one definitely does belong in this article. However, the Man City post has already been filled, so that one doesn't belong here and, like you said, the Blackburn one doesn't either. – PeeJay 14:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Well, if the new Blackburn manager is appointed after 1 July, then we need to add that into this article. Hughes' appointment from Man City is actually post-season I think... Raymond "Giggs" Ko 04:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- Is it not easier just to mention managerial changes since the close of play of the previous Premier League season? Mark hughes may now be City manager from before 1st July, but I still think he deserves a mention.--El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 11:55, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I hear you, I really do, but we had to set a point for splitting the different season articles (not just for managers, but transfers, etc.) and we came up with the July 1 deadline a few years ago on another article. It seems as though the FA or some other body considers July 1 to be the split between one season and the next, so we stuck with that. Unless there is significant reasoning to change the date, we'll just stick with this. -- Grant.Alpaugh 16:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- Is it not easier just to mention managerial changes since the close of play of the previous Premier League season? Mark hughes may now be City manager from before 1st July, but I still think he deserves a mention.--El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 11:55, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that actually adds to the article though, or more rather, it contributes to what the section is supposed to be about. If you take that stance, then it indicates that what you are doing is listing all the relevant information about managers' appointments as of this season. If that is your aim, then you're almost setting a precedent for adding anything about managers relevant to this season - we might as well add the appointment date of all managers all the way back to Alex Ferguson because they are "relevant" to this season, and that would be to change that mandate of what the "managerial changes" section is about. What the section is supposed to be about is charting the points during the 08-09 season in which managers were replaced, and the thing is that neither the sacking of SGE nor the appointment of Mark Hughes happened during this season. Falastur2 (talk) 15:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'd disagree with the statement that it adds nothing to the section, but mainly because I disagree with the 1 July start date for this season. If Man Utd sacked Alex Ferguson and replaced him at exactly 11:55pm 30 June, as far as I can see that's just as notable to the 2008-09 season as if he was sacked and replaced five minutes later. It's still a major change for the start of this season (when the first whistle is blown on 16 August 2008) compared to the end of last season (when the last whistle was blown on 11 May 2008). I appreciate that the July 1 changeover has been agreed, so it needs to be stuck to for as long as it's agreed between everyone, but I don't think that it's the right way to handle it. --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 21:09, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- Just to add to my previous comment, looking a bit deeper, the transfer window is open from 1 July (I think its a UEFA thing rather than just the FA), so I guess that's the main reason for that date to be the changeover point. If that is the official date, then fair enough. Guess I was wrong - apologies! El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 21:16, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- According to FIFA, all winter seasons (that is, seasons which run over winter instead of during summer months) begin on 1 July, and end on 30 June, although the month of June is regarded to be a close-season appended to the season before. I see your point, and to an extent I agree with it, but as Grant has said above, my issue is that if we allow small circumventions then we increasingly lose our ability to say that large circumventions of the rules shouldn't be allowed, and you find yourself in danger of being pushed back and back until the section loses its original identity. If you want to propose a change to the nature of this section, then feel free and the issue (and perhaps my opinions) will change, but under the present circumstances I find myself feeling that we should stick rigidly to the 1st of July cut-off. Hope that makes my position clearer. Falastur2 (talk) 23:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that actually adds to the article though, or more rather, it contributes to what the section is supposed to be about. If you take that stance, then it indicates that what you are doing is listing all the relevant information about managers' appointments as of this season. If that is your aim, then you're almost setting a precedent for adding anything about managers relevant to this season - we might as well add the appointment date of all managers all the way back to Alex Ferguson because they are "relevant" to this season, and that would be to change that mandate of what the "managerial changes" section is about. What the section is supposed to be about is charting the points during the 08-09 season in which managers were replaced, and the thing is that neither the sacking of SGE nor the appointment of Mark Hughes happened during this season. Falastur2 (talk) 15:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Map
Just had a quick look at the current Serie A and La Liga pages to see how they compared to this (they're nothing in comparison, I must say!), but one thing they do have is a map showing each club's location, something which this article doesn't. I was just wondering if it would be worth doing something like that? I think it would help to see where clubs are based; help to see why based on location there are rivalries, and see where newly promoted, and lesser known teams, are based in England. Would this add to the article in any way, or not? Pullshapes (talk) 17:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- didn't see the discussion on this above, sorry 'bout that. Pullshapes (talk) 17:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
The current map put in by Chandler disrupts the dimensions of this article. I would advise to create a Location map template based on Image:BlankMap-EnglandSubdivisions.svg, and then put the coordinates on this template. I would further suggest to revert the article in the meantime. The map created by El Pollo Diablo was not good quality-wise, but better than nothing. Hockey-holic (talk) 11:40, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Both are 400px wide, I dont know what you're complaining about... If you think it's too tall, edit the map down to a 300px size or similar — chandler — 11:46, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry if I didn't express my concerns clearly enough. The problem is not the map itself but rather the blank space created by the used template (thumb?) on the left-hand side of the page. This space could be used for content. The map itself is a quality upgrade. :-) Hockey-holic (talk) 13:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Hmm... I don't see any extra space used on the left... could you screen it? — chandler — 18:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- You need to not use the Thumb template, and make a template like this one which is at template:MLS Labelled Map -- Grant.Alpaugh 19:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- You need to not use the Thumb template, and make a template like this one which is at template:MLS Labelled Map -- Grant.Alpaugh 19:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Hmm... I don't see any extra space used on the left... could you screen it? — chandler — 18:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry if I didn't express my concerns clearly enough. The problem is not the map itself but rather the blank space created by the used template (thumb?) on the left-hand side of the page. This space could be used for content. The map itself is a quality upgrade. :-) Hockey-holic (talk) 13:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm making an alternative, you can see it here. It's a work in progress, but I intend to complete it in one go, so keep refreshing if you're that interested. I'm using the map seen on the SPL's main article as a base. But that's not my point though. My point is that it works quite well as you can see, but not very well. I'm having some considerable trouble making the text show up well. I almost feel that the best way to proceed would be to use Chandler's map image (which has the dots placed on but not the writing) and use my/the SPL article's code to place the text. As we saw earlier, text shows up far easier on that map (and it would save me half the work). Falastur2 (talk) 20:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- (ec)What are you talking about "not take up the whole top of the article". For me it doesn't change the article at all. It doesn't change until you get to under 1000 px wide, at which 1 word, the last one of the beginning is wraped. Image:Pl faultymaps.png That's how it looks for me, and as you can see, the only think that differ is that some rows are 1 px higher up... At lower resolutions the text would only be longer and therefor matter less?... — chandler — 20:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Image:Borked Map.JPG Here's my screenshot of the problem. -- Grant.Alpaugh 20:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- (ec)What are you talking about "not take up the whole top of the article". For me it doesn't change the article at all. It doesn't change until you get to under 1000 px wide, at which 1 word, the last one of the beginning is wraped. Image:Pl faultymaps.png That's how it looks for me, and as you can see, the only think that differ is that some rows are 1 px higher up... At lower resolutions the text would only be longer and therefor matter less?... — chandler — 20:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- I've completed the map, you can see it here, as linked before. And here you can see the alternate version, using Chandler's map as a base. Both are completed. I prefer the second, personally. Feel free to use either if you think they're worth it, but I'll leave it to debate for a while. Falastur2 (talk) 21:10, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- I think it's better with the lighter colour (i changed from the pink, because the links can be hard to read on that colour) — chandler — 21:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm making an alternative, you can see it here. It's a work in progress, but I intend to complete it in one go, so keep refreshing if you're that interested. I'm using the map seen on the SPL's main article as a base. But that's not my point though. My point is that it works quite well as you can see, but not very well. I'm having some considerable trouble making the text show up well. I almost feel that the best way to proceed would be to use Chandler's map image (which has the dots placed on but not the writing) and use my/the SPL article's code to place the text. As we saw earlier, text shows up far easier on that map (and it would save me half the work). Falastur2 (talk) 20:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
I've created {{Location map England}} (based on {{Location map United Kingdom}}) I haven't tried it out yet to see if it works... will repost — chandler — 06:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
- What do you guys think of this one? User:Chandler/Map locator, I think I got the right coordinates when I made {{Location map England}}, and used the teams stadiums location. — chandler — 08:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
- Just one word: GREAT!!! Hockey-holic (talk) 21:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
The map really should be redone to not use Long/Lat and use the x/y axis so that labels can be moved to better space them out. Also, a template instead of a bunch of code would be nice. I'll work on this in the next few days. -- Grant.Alpaugh 15:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- The reason for using long/lat is {{location map}} which I guess is a pretty universal template. It also makes it alot easier to place the markers right as long/lat is something that can be referenced on most stadium articles. Usable for all former Premier League and Football League seasons — chandler — 16:07, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- I understand your reasoning, but the point is that the tags with text are way too crowded as is, so being able to move the labels independently of the map bullets would be most helpful. -- Grant.Alpaugh 16:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- What about this one? — chandler — 20:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- I understand your reasoning, but the point is that the tags with text are way too crowded as is, so being able to move the labels independently of the map bullets would be most helpful. -- Grant.Alpaugh 16:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Just so I know for the future, how does one use the map of England as a base and add links onto it? Are you using a particular program to do it? Cheers --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 08:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- It's the template {{location map}} all the info should be in the doc — chandler — 09:18, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Fixtures
I asked over at WP:MCQ about whether or not the future fixtures for the season are copyright protected in Florida, given that they are facts (even their protection in the UK is debatable), and Florida copyright protects that. The question has raised one comment in support. If that's the case, then, I'm going to go ahead and put them back in. Comments? --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 09:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- Questions over fixture lists aside - except that to say that I think that whether the law over being able to copyright fixture lists is stupid or not, it is the law and we will just have permanent edit wars if we try to ignore it - I have to question whether we really want a fixture list section added anyway. The important thing to remember here is that this is an encyclopædia, not a TV guide etc. While I see the benefit of listing the results - as they are directly useful to the league table, and the league table is what the league is all about - I honestly don't think that showing the fixtures helps us in any way other than to tell us when our team is next playing - and that's not what Wikipedia is for. If people want to see a fixture list then I'm sure they're capable of finding a different site which can legally list them - and to be honest, I'm 99.99% sure that anyone who wanted a fixture list for the Premier League wouldn't come here to look for it anyway. There's nothing wrong with a quick link to, say, the Premier League's page on fixtures if anyone disagrees with that, too. And another thing is that from what I've seen of previous attempts, fixture lists in Wikipedia tend to use up an inordinate amount of space in the article, and generally look unsightly - and that's not to mention that the typing involved in the fixture list alone would probably exceed the recommended guidelines for maximum page size, and these articles tend to be hefty without them already. Thoughts? Falastur2 (talk) 12:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I would add dates for upcoming if and only if there could be confusion where to put a score for a game. An example for that is the current season of the Faroe Islands league, where teams play each other three times, but not with a fixed season structure as in England (see article for details). As for this article, it would be better to add a link to a schedule site or document in the Results section rather than putting a complete table with all the fixtures in a separate section (see also Fußball-Bundesliga 2008-09). Hockey-holic (talk) 13:04, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- Some fair enough points there (I'd be disappointed to see it gone as I spent all morning on it though!). I don't think that the copyrighting of the fixtures applies in this circumstance, as in Florida the underlying facts (that is, the dates of the games to be played) can be published under "fair use", and that is the law that applies. To republish exactly a Fixture Table given on the Premier League website would not count as that is their presentation of the underlying facts, and copyright can apply to that. Precedents and statutes under English law don't apply, because Wikipedia is Floridian. So I don't think there's a legal issue, the only thing is whether it belongs in the article on its own merit.
- I think it is deserving of a place in the article, as it is fairly standard information enquired about concerning each Premier League season. There is a great deal of fuss made by the media when the fixtures are released, and often the next set of fixtures can be an important factor in tactics between teams (for instance, if Man Utd are challenging Chelsea at the top of the League and they have to play each other in the final games of the season). To have the information in one place where a date is easy to find is, I think, worthy of an encyclopedia.
- When I first started to edit the table, I was hoping to find a way to combine the fixtures and results table into one, but this didn't work with the template used for the results, so I just made my own table (which is why it took so long). If people would like a fixture list but there are concerns over the length of the article, then providing some way of combining the fixture and results tables into one would be the best way forward, I think. --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 13:34, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- Side note on usage of dates and other stuff in the templates: Just put <small>content</small> behind a line that should display other things like results. Make sure that the content is not too large, though. For an example or two see above in the according section. Hockey-holic (talk) 13:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
If they are to be included, it would be preferable to use the {{Fb r2 header}}, {{Fb r team}} etc, found on the original #Fixtures section — chandler — 14:07, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'd like to point out that if we are going to debate law and the legal implications, then we've discussed this before, last year for example, and U.S. law protects, not overrides, UK copyright law on US soil, and FootballDataCo's priviledge extends to American sources, not just British. Hate to be the thorn in everyone's side, and I feel your pain for spending so long righting up the fixtures, but I'm a stickler for making sure the facts are right, and I felt I should point that out. Falastur2 (talk) 14:34, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- But surely, that can't be right - there are elements of both sets of copyright laws which do not fit with each other (this case in point), and Wikipedia doesn't have to satisfy every nation's law on copyright - just Florida. Or at least that's what I thought. Hmmm. Have you got any links for somewhere where the US laws state their protection for UK law? I tried to find the discussion on the fixtures in the archives, but couldn't find it. Have you got a link please? Cheers. Bloody Premier League. Bah. --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 17:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- It's been discussed heavily at WP:FOOTY, probably not here. This is the latest one I remember Fixtures — chandler — 17:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- The point is not that the Wiki servers are in Florida, it's that the information originates in the UK and Floridan copyright law does not extend to everything accessed in Florida, it applies to everything copyrighted in Florida. If US law said that it doesn't recognise the authority of British law then we could do as you say, Pollo, but it doesn't, else Americans would likely be plagiarising every British source they could get their hands on :)
- But surely, that can't be right - there are elements of both sets of copyright laws which do not fit with each other (this case in point), and Wikipedia doesn't have to satisfy every nation's law on copyright - just Florida. Or at least that's what I thought. Hmmm. Have you got any links for somewhere where the US laws state their protection for UK law? I tried to find the discussion on the fixtures in the archives, but couldn't find it. Have you got a link please? Cheers. Bloody Premier League. Bah. --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 17:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
And by the way, I checked fair use, and this doesn't really count as fair use. Fair use is about allowing reproduction of a source if it's for the greater good - for education and such. What we want to use this information for is more just for personal gain, and it's that which copyright law is there to protect against ;) Falastur2 (talk) 18:04, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
The dates for the fixtures should be removed ASAP. We don´t want Wikipedia getting sued just because someone dared to question the interpretation of worldwide copyright laws. – PeeJay 18:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- Fair enough! Regardless of the legal situation, there's probably enough consensus anyway. Like I said, bah. I'm off to draw a willy on Richard Scudamore's head. --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 19:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Table
For you guys... if you want to add a schedule here or in a "Football in England in 2009" article. 82.240.207.81 (talk) 20:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
| July | August | September | October | November | December | January | February | March | April | May | June | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | tue. | fri. | mon. | Matchday 2 | 11 | mon. | thu. | sun. | sun. | Ukraine | fri. | mon. |
| 2 | wed. | sat. | tue. | First round | sun. | tue. | fri. | mon. | mon. | thu. | 35 | tue. |
| 3 | thu. | sun. | wed. | fri. | mon. | Matchday 4 | Round of 64 | tue. | 28 | fri. | sun. | wed. |
| 4 | fri. | mon. | thu. | 7 | Matchday 4 | sun. | wed. | 31 | mon. | thu. | ||
| 5 | sat. | tue. | fri. | sun. | fri. | mon. | thu. | thu. | sun. | Semi-finals | fri. | |
| 6 | sun. | wed. | Andorra | mon. | Matchday 2 | 16 | Semi-finals 1st leg | fri. | fri. | mon. | Kazakhstan | |
| 7 | mon. | thu. | sun. | tue. | fri. | sun. | 25 | Quarterfinals | Quarterfinals | Semi-finals | sun. | |
| 8 | tue. | fri. | mon. | wed. | 12 | mon. | thu. | sun. | sun. | fri. | mon. | |
| 9 | wed. | sat. | tue. | thu. | sun. | Matchday 6 | fri. | mon. | mon. | Quarterfinals | 36 | tue. |
| 10 | thu. | Shield | Croatia | fri. | mon. | 21 | tue. | Round of 16 | fri. | sun. | Andorra | |
| 11 | fri. | mon. | thu. | Kazakhstan | Round of 16 | thu. | sun. | wed. | 32 | mon. | thu. | |
| 12 | sat. | 3rd p. round | fri. | sun. | fri. | mon. | thu. | Round of 16 | sun. | tue. | fri. | |
| 13 | sun. | 4 | mon. | thu. | 18 | tue. | fri. | fri. | mon. | wed. | sat. | |
| 14 | mon. | 2nd p. round | sun. | tue. | fri. | sun. | wed. | Round of 16 | 29 | Quarterfinals | thu. | sun. |
| 15 | tue. | fri. | mon. | Belarus | 14 | mon. | thu. | sun. | sun. | fri. | mon. | |
| 16 | wed. | 1 | Matchday 1 | thu. | sun. | tue. | fri. | mon. | mon. | Quarterfinals | 37 | tue. |
| 17 | 1st p. round | sun. | fri. | mon. | Matchday 5 | 22 | tue. | tue. | fri. | sun. | wed. | |
| 18 | fri. | mon. | First round | 8 | tue. | sun. | Round of 32 | Round of 16 | 33 | mon. | thu. | |
| 19 | Third round | tue. | fri. | sun. | Germany | fri. | mon. | Semi-finals | tue. | fri. | ||
| 20 | Czechia | 5 | mon. | thu. | 18 | Semi-finals 2nd leg | fri. | fri. | mon. | Finale | sat. | |
| 21 | mon. | thu. | sun. | Matchday 3 | fri. | sun. | 26 | 30 | tue. | thu. | sun. | |
| 22 | tue. | fri. | mon. | 15 | mon. | thu. | sun. | sun. | 33 | fri. | mon. | |
| 23 | wed. | 2 | Third round | Matchday 1 | sun. | tue. | fri. | mon. | mon. | thu. | sat. | tue. |
| 24 | thu. | sun. | fri. | mon. | wed. | Round of 32 | Round of 16 | tue. | fri. | 38 | wed. | |
| 25 | fri. | mon. | thu. | 9 | Matchday 5 | thu. | sun. | wed. | 34 | mon. | thu. | |
| 26 | Third round | 3rd p. round | fri. | sun. | 19 | mon. | Round of 32 | thu. | sun. | tue. | fri. | |
| 27 | 6 | mon. | Matchday 3 | sat. | 23 | fri. | fri. | mon. | Finale | sat. | ||
| 28 | mon. | 2nd p. round | sun. | 10 | fri. | 20 | 27 | sat. | Semi-finals | thu. | sun. | |
| 29 | tue. | fri. | mon. | 16 | mon. | thu. | sun. | fri. | mon. | |||
| 30 | wed. | 3 | Matchday 2 | thu. | sun. | tue. | fri. | mon. | Semi-finals | Finale | tue. | |
| 31 | 1st p. round | sun. | fri. | wed. | 24 | tue. | sun. | |||||
| July | August | September | October | November | December | January | February | March | April | May | June |
| sun. | Day without any match | sun. | International fixtures break | Andorra | England's international fixture |
| Ukraine | Home match | Kazakhstan | Away match | Finale | Neutral venue |
| 1 | Premier League matchday | Round of 64 | FA Cup | Round of 16 | League Cup (possible dates) |
| Matchday 1 | UEFA Champions League | First round | UEFA Cup | Third round | Intertoto Cup |
| sat. | Gold Cup 2009 (juin) | sat. | FIFA Confederations cup 2009 |
fr:Modèle:Calendrier English Premier League 2008-2009 If there's a copyright on this schedule, don't forget you can still watch it in French here : fr:Championnat d'Angleterre de football 2008-2009...