Talk:Association football: Difference between revisions

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:It's called soccer in the USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, and a few other English peaking countries where another strong code (or codes) captured the name "football" first. It's football in the other English speaking countries. The official English name is "Association football". [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 00:01, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
:It's called soccer in the USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, and a few other English peaking countries where another strong code (or codes) captured the name "football" first. It's football in the other English speaking countries. The official English name is "Association football". [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 00:01, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
::There is not and will never be such thing as a "official English name" of anything [[Special:Contributions/149.154.222.99|149.154.222.99]] ([[User talk:149.154.222.99|talk]]) 02:45, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
::There is not and will never be such thing as a "official English name" of anything [[Special:Contributions/149.154.222.99|149.154.222.99]] ([[User talk:149.154.222.99|talk]]) 02:45, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
:::The article is written in British English, though? Soccer is a seldom used nickname with humorous connotation in British English. Therefore, should the article not reflect that while paying heed to the diversity of names used in all other languages? [[User:SteadyJames|SteadyJames]] ([[User talk:SteadyJames|talk]]) 08:24, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
:Read the FAQ mate [[Special:Contributions/2402:800:629C:E333:BC46:3E23:9CB1:DCAD|2402:800:629C:E333:BC46:3E23:9CB1:DCAD]] ([[User talk:2402:800:629C:E333:BC46:3E23:9CB1:DCAD|talk]]) 15:11, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
:Read the FAQ mate [[Special:Contributions/2402:800:629C:E333:BC46:3E23:9CB1:DCAD|2402:800:629C:E333:BC46:3E23:9CB1:DCAD]] ([[User talk:2402:800:629C:E333:BC46:3E23:9CB1:DCAD|talk]]) 15:11, 14 December 2022 (UTC)



Revision as of 08:24, 11 February 2023

Former featured articleAssociation football is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 20, 2006.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 10, 2006Featured article candidatePromoted
October 15, 2007Featured article reviewKept
June 11, 2022Featured article reviewDemoted
Current status: Former featured article

Template:Vital article

Template:Annual readership

FIFA did not 'officially' Recognize Cuju

If you're referring to the 2004 news article about Cuju on FIFA Magazine, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say FIFA recognized it as the earliest form of football. It was not an editorial or an official document, and was written by a professor of Oriental Studies (the German Helmut Brinker) as a piece of trivia and entertainment. The same can be said about the current article calling Britain the "home of football", which is certainly more accurate, but still, not an editorial by FIFA, just a piece of news trivia.

This English Wikipedia about Association Football also alleges that FIFA recognized it as the earliest form of football, but the given reference page is broken, and I couldn't find any screening on "Wayback Machine" of a previous version showing it.

That said, I think we should be aware that every sport is a potential object of geopolitical dispute, which includes the creation of those foundational myths. Neither the east-asian nor the mesoamerican sports were football, and calling them so is an anachronism.

Regardless, I think the "officially recognize" part should be deleted. Because it is not, and it is embarrassing to have this on the Wikipedia article of the most relevant sport on Earth.

Whose goal is it, really?

The article says "The two teams compete to get the ball into the other team's goal". To Association football fans, this will seem perfectly correct and logical, but when looked at from outside the game, it's actually quite confusing. In normal English, YOUR goal is something you are aiming for. The opposite is true in football language. You aim for what is described as your opponent's goal. You try to stop the ball going into your own goal. This a global encyclopaedia. We should write in language that is clear to someone not used to the jargon of the game. There must be a better way of writing that sentence at the beginning of this comment, but I'm struggling. HiLo48 (talk) 10:10, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's clear enough, as in this case "goal" isn't alluding to an unspecified objective, but to the literal goalposts of each team. In that sense, if one team were to say "defend our goal" they would be referring to their own goalpost and not to the opponent's. It follows that the other team's goal must be the goalpost they're aiming to get the ball into. Even if you take the literal definition of "goal", the sentence would make no sense as you can't "get a ball" into some shared abstract objective that is also the place the other team is aiming for. What would that look like, like playing basketball with only one basket?
Maybe rephrasing to the opposite team's goal would help a bit? Or clarifying that each team has a goal of their own, in the sense of the structure consisting of two posts and a bar located at the end of their side of the playing field. Of course, such a description that tries to get rid of every possible ambiguity could get quite lengthy. NicoSkater97 (let's talk!) 03:23, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Each team attempts to get the ball into a goal defended by the other"? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:36, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not overthink this. The current wording hardly takes an above-average IQ to decipher. – PeeJay 14:26, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Really? Because, I agree with Hi-Lo, if I am trying to get something into somewhere, that somewhere is my goal. Not someone else's. Is soccer (or sports in general) really this illogical? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:52, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Soccer

It’s called soccer. Please revert title. 2600:4040:2F63:8600:E921:14B4:EABA:9771 (talk) 18:40, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's called soccer in the USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, and a few other English peaking countries where another strong code (or codes) captured the name "football" first. It's football in the other English speaking countries. The official English name is "Association football". HiLo48 (talk) 00:01, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is not and will never be such thing as a "official English name" of anything 149.154.222.99 (talk) 02:45, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The article is written in British English, though? Soccer is a seldom used nickname with humorous connotation in British English. Therefore, should the article not reflect that while paying heed to the diversity of names used in all other languages? SteadyJames (talk) 08:24, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Read the FAQ mate 2402:800:629C:E333:BC46:3E23:9CB1:DCAD (talk) 15:11, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate Text

In the History section the Greek origin story is written twice in the article. 24.194.175.156 (talk) 16:52, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mixed-gender

It says in the infobox that it is gender separated. However, since this is supposed to be a general article about football, and not the FIFA which explicitly outlaws gender mixing, this is not quite true. For example, in the highest swedish professional league Allsvenskan, both men and women are allowed to compete. It should not say in this article that it is gender-separated. 78.69.118.151 (talk) 17:52, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Literally everything you said is 100% wrong. The Allsvenskan is a men's league, the Damallsvenskan is a women's league. This is not like NFL v XFL, all official football leagues in the world play to the Laws of the Game, there isn't a league called "the FIFA" that plays by different laws. There are not teams in Sweden playing with six men and five women in competitive games - I mean, you'd remember if you saw that, so I don't know where you got that idea from. What would they do in European games in countries where women can't play alongside men? Forfeit? 90.240.29.158 (talk) 12:42, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There aren't many men-only leagues in the world. A woman could play in the Allsvenskan if she was good enough, same with the Premier League. I doubt the same is the case in Iran or Saudi Arabia, but certainly in Europe, the leagues we tend to think of as "men's leagues" are actually open; the only restriction is on men playing in women's leagues. – PeeJay 18:51, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, everything I just said is not wrong. Allsvenskan does not forbid women from competing (although Damallsvenskan forbids men from competing). The Laws of the Game are not the only rules in football, and rules may vary between different leagues. You are correct there isn’t a league called “the FIFA”, well observed; FIFA is the international governing body of football. I will state it again very clearly for you: since this article is about the game of football, and not the rules of the world cup or premier league or whatever, it should not state that the game is gender-separated, as that varies a lot. separated. 78.69.118.151 (talk) 02:37, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any sources for the assumption that the leagues in developed countries which we consider to be men's leagues are actually elite mixed leagues that have never chosen to sign a player from their all-female reserve teams? The "About" section on the Allsvenskan website says "Allsvenskan.se is run by the Swedish Elite Football Association. The Swedish Elite Football Association is an interest organization for the 32 clubs in Allsvenskan and Superettan. The mission is to drive the development of national men's elite football; sporting, financial, commercial and administrative." [1] Seems a bit odd to me that non-gendered teams are publicly stating that they are only investing in the men's game. If you go on any Premier League team's website, in the "teams" section, it will say men and women, not "first team" and "women". [2] [3] I can't believe this is even a discussion when no women have played officially in any of these mentioned leagues. 84.69.100.29 (talk) 15:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No While it may be true that there may be limited instances in which men are permitted to participate with women and vice versa, none of these are mainstream, and even when they do exist, they are effectively 'de-jure' (officially, but not in practice). The article should not say that football is mixed sex, because FIFA (the international governing body) prohibits it, so the article should reflect the highest governing body, and not more minor instances. In addition, the premier league in the UK (as an example) is for men's teams, and can be strongly evidenced by no women ever appearing in it over its history. Lawrence 979 (talk) 18:36, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please provide evidence that FIFA prohibits mixed-gender football to take place. There is no such rule, and women can freely take part in so-called "men's" matches, but please, do entertain us with such a rule... – PeeJay 18:45, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/3950e57162ea513d/original/ihf3yx6kw3insqt6r0i6-pdf.pdf See page 9 Lawrence 979 (talk) 19:01, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
These are rules for ”FIFA competitions”, and not the game of football. The FIFA’s role is not to regulate the game of football, which this article is about. The Allsvenskan (and many other leagues) is just as much as football as the premier league, but since no rule in the laws of the game states it must be gender-separated, this article should not state that. 78.69.118.151 (talk) 14:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IS this article about FIFA football or the overall game of association football? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 19:41, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Given that FIFA doesn't get a mention until the third paragraph of the lead, I'd say it's clearly the latter. HiLo48 (talk) 01:33, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dribbling in soccer

Dribbling is done by striking the ball with lace or instep part of the boot.Giving the ball n ot more than a one metre gap at a moderate pace.the knee of foot in use should be bent forward and hands raised slightly for balance and the head is raised up.

Sprinting with the ball could only be best when coming from a flank more especially when the opponent is at a distance .

The use of skills could help confuse the opponent , mostly a fake would be suitable. A step-over are best used when an oncoming opponent is sprinting .faking of passes,crosses and shorts could help a lot — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99Kings (talk • contribs) 09:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2022

Remove repeated paragraph ("Phaininda and episkyros were Greek ball games. An image of an episkyros player depicted in low relief on a stele of c. 375–400 BCE in the National Archaeological Museum of Athens appears on the UEFA European Championship trophy. Athenaeus, writing in 228 CE, mentions the Roman ball game harpastum. Phaininda, episkyros and harpastum were played involving hands and violence. They all appear to have resembled rugby football, wrestling and volleyball more than what is recognizable as modern football. As with pre-codified mob football, the antecedent of all modern football codes, these three games involved more handling the ball than kicking.") CrisantemoFlor (talk) 15:41, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Lemonaka (talk) 20:35, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2023

contact = Limited change it to Full and add references beside contact [1] 80.233.39.116 (talk) 18:05, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Blogs are not reliable sources. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:26, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]