Talk:Assassination of Talaat Pasha: Difference between revisions
m Vpab15 moved page Talk:Assassination of Talat Pasha to Talk:Assassination of Talaat Pasha over redirect: Moved per Talk:Assassination of Talat Pasha#Requested move 10 June 2021 using rmCloser |
Closing requested move; moved using rmCloser |
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{{copied|from=Assassination of Talat Pasha|from_oldid=1024650726|to=Soghomon Tehlirian|date=25 May 2021|diff=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soghomon_Tehlirian&diff=1025025668&oldid=1025022590}} |
{{copied|from=Assassination of Talat Pasha|from_oldid=1024650726|to=Soghomon Tehlirian|date=25 May 2021|diff=https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soghomon_Tehlirian&diff=1025025668&oldid=1025022590}} |
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{{old move|date=10 June 2021|from=Assassination of Talaat Pasha|destination=Assassination of Talaat Pasha|result=moved|link=Special:Permalink/1032503935#Requested move 10 June 2021}} |
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==Did you know nomination== |
==Did you know nomination== |
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== Requested move 10 June 2021 == |
== Requested move 10 June 2021 == |
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{{requested move/dated|Assassination of Talaat Pasha}} |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. '' |
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The result of the move request was: '''moved.''' <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small> [[User:Vpab15|Vpab15]] ([[User talk:Vpab15|talk]]) 20:42, 7 July 2021 (UTC) |
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[[:Assassination of Talat Pasha]] → {{no redirect|Assassination of Talaat Pasha}} – Per [[WP:CONSUB]], the name of the pasha should match the title of his article in this sub-article's title. This move has been mooted before [[Talk:Assassination of Talat Pasha#Move request|here]] and [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Assassination of Talat Pasha/archive1#Reywas92|here]], but the article creator objects. I do not have an opinion on which spelling is best, only that article and sub-article ought to match. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 00:08, 10 June 2021 (UTC) <small>—'''''Relisting.''''' [[User:Natg 19|Natg 19]] ([[User talk:Natg 19|talk]]) 21:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)</small> |
[[:Assassination of Talat Pasha]] → {{no redirect|Assassination of Talaat Pasha}} – Per [[WP:CONSUB]], the name of the pasha should match the title of his article in this sub-article's title. This move has been mooted before [[Talk:Assassination of Talat Pasha#Move request|here]] and [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Assassination of Talat Pasha/archive1#Reywas92|here]], but the article creator objects. I do not have an opinion on which spelling is best, only that article and sub-article ought to match. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 00:08, 10 June 2021 (UTC) <small>—'''''Relisting.''''' [[User:Natg 19|Natg 19]] ([[User talk:Natg 19|talk]]) 21:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)</small> |
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*'''Support''' - My understanding is that while recent English sources may be split between Talat and Talaat, not only will the recent biography tip the scales, but all of the contemporary English sources (from the times the Ottoman Empire still existed and in the early days of the Turkish Republic) ''unanimously'' used "Talaat", so that should make Talaat definitive. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 12:20, 7 July 2021 (UTC) |
*'''Support''' - My understanding is that while recent English sources may be split between Talat and Talaat, not only will the recent biography tip the scales, but all of the contemporary English sources (from the times the Ottoman Empire still existed and in the early days of the Turkish Republic) ''unanimously'' used "Talaat", so that should make Talaat definitive. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 12:20, 7 July 2021 (UTC) |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] --> |
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== Possibly wrong link target in section "Assassination" == |
== Possibly wrong link target in section "Assassination" == |
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Revision as of 20:42, 7 July 2021
| Assassination of Talaat Pasha is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Did you know nomination
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 13:03, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
- ... that the assassination of Talat Pasha to avenge the Armenian Genocide resulted in "one of the most spectacular trials of the twentieth century"?
- ALT1:... that after the assassination of Talat Pasha, the killer told police "I am not the murderer; he was" and was acquitted?
- ALT2:... that after the main architect of the Armenian Genocide was assassinated, the German Foreign Office sent a wreath "To a great statesman and a faithful friend"?
Created by Buidhe (talk). Self-nominated at 13:17, 24 March 2021 (UTC).
/
Article is new enough, long enough, well-sourced. Can't access Ihrig 2016, but can access Hosfeld 2005. On the question of neutrality, the article relates to a contentious topic, but appears reasonably written and grounded in sources. I had an initial concern about the relevance of German views in the background section, but from what I can see of the sources they themselves discuss these links, so taking educated AGF the sources relate it to the article topic. On hooks, I lean towards ALT0 and ALT2, as ALT1 is perhaps not as clear as it was not the police who acquitted the assassin. Am glad I don't have to figure out whether the various quotes meet MOS:LQ or not for DYK! CMD (talk) 12:34, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Move request
To "assassination of Talaat Pasha", to match the biography article of Talaat Pasha. Pinging @Buidhe: as major contributor to the article. - Kevo327 (talk) 23:45, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose There are different ways of spelling the name, and the single "a" version has become more common in English language print sources, per NGRAMS[1] (t · c) buidhe 00:32, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
- understandable and good reasoning, since the name is more common I've withdrawn my request. - Kevo327 (talk) 07:25, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Buidhe: If you are right, you should start an RM at Talaat Pasha. The titles should not use different spellings. Srnec (talk) 02:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
GA Review
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Assassination of Talat Pasha/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Guettarda (talk · contribs) 18:32, 24 April 2021 (UTC) This is a fascinating read, and something a knew nothing about. Guettarda (talk) 18:32, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
- It is reasonably well written.
- It is factually accurate and verifiable.
- a (reference section):
b (citations to reliable sources):
c (OR):
d (copyvio and plagiarism):
- a (reference section):
- It is broad in its coverage.
- a (major aspects):
b (focused):
- a (major aspects):
- It follows the neutral point of view policy.
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- It is stable.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- No edit wars, etc.:
- It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales):
b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales):
- Overall:
- Pass/Fail:
- Pass/Fail:
This is excellent. I have very little to add.
Talat Pasha's exile in Berlin
- Neubabelsberg redirects to Babelsberg; I'm not sure if it needs a link to de:Neubabelsberg
- Removed
Other testimony on the genocide
- Is Mr. Terzibashian's first name known?
- No, I checked the original trial transcript and it's not stated. Same with the prosecutor, Gollnick, whose first name is not stated in any source.
- The following section begins with "His wife Christine..." A new section should be more "stand alone".
- Reworded, thank you!
General
- I'm curious about the choice to refer to Adolf von Gordon as "Gordon" rather than "von Gordon"
- I double checked and that's the form both Hofmann and Ihrig use. (t · c) buidhe 01:40, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
- Tessa Hofmann is linked twice in the body of the article, as is Carolyn Dean.
- I feel like these mentions are too sparse and far apart so that the reader has likely forgotten who they were before getting to the second mention. (t · c) buidhe 01:40, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
Guettarda (talk) 23:13, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
- Guettarda I believe I've addressed everything above. Thanks for reviewing the article! (t · c) buidhe 01:40, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
Use of "coroner"
In the section Other testimony on the genocide, the term "coroner" is used. Is that an accurate translation of the position of the German official? "Coroner" is a specifically English law term, which has been picked up in Commonwealth countries and the US which have been influenced by English law. Is it appropriate to use that term when describing a German official, who may have different duties and powers than the English officer? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:29, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
- Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, Hi, thanks for your copyedits to the article. The cited source (Ihrig) says "coroner". The English translation of the transcript (a somewhat unofficial source) says he is Dr. Schmulinsky, a "Medical Advisor".[2] The original German source says "Zeuge Geheimer Sanitätsrat Dr. Schmulinsky aus Charlottenburg"[3] (t · c) buidhe 03:03, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
- I have no German, so can't help with the translation, but I do know a German lawyer. I'll pass an inquiry on to him. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 03:07, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
Copied some text
I know absolutely nothing about this subject but ended up with the Soghomon Tehlirian article on my watchlist due to unreverted vandalism. After the recent spate of bizarre IP edits there trying to note his first assassination, I've gone and copied text from this article to there, keeping the latter page's referencing style (I really don't care which ref style Tehlirian's page uses; I was just copying accepted practice). Any help (or other watchers) there would be appreciated. Graham87 10:14, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
Requested move 10 June 2021
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 20:42, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Assassination of Talat Pasha → Assassination of Talaat Pasha – Per WP:CONSUB, the name of the pasha should match the title of his article in this sub-article's title. This move has been mooted before here and here, but the article creator objects. I do not have an opinion on which spelling is best, only that article and sub-article ought to match. Srnec (talk) 00:08, 10 June 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 21:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
- I agree that by WP:CONSUB there should be consistency between the titles. I haven't seen anything persuasive to say which one it should be though. In Justifying Genocide, Stefan Ihrig uses Talât Pasha. That's only one example though, as it's the only relevant book I have on hand. In the previous discussions, it was pointed out that the contemporary split is essentially even between Talat and Talaat. I'd trust buidhe's judgement here as she has demonstrated a lot more familiarity with the literature. Tkbrett (✉) 19:40, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- Support move per nom. The spelling was shortly discussed recently at Talk:Talaat Pasha#Most common name for Talaat Pasha in modern sources? The general trend is that the two spellings Talat and Talaat are more or less equally split. However, the 2018 2018 biography by Hans-Lukas Kieser will probably help tip the scales towards Talaat. --T*U (talk) 09:06, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
- Support - My understanding is that while recent English sources may be split between Talat and Talaat, not only will the recent biography tip the scales, but all of the contemporary English sources (from the times the Ottoman Empire still existed and in the early days of the Turkish Republic) unanimously used "Talaat", so that should make Talaat definitive. WhisperToMe (talk) 12:20, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
Possibly wrong link target in section "Assassination"
The pistol with which Pasha was shot is named a 9×19mm Parabellum pistol in section "Assassination". The brackets on the right from the link are most likely set at the wrong position, which makes the wikilink go to a wrong article. If the weapon used was indeed a Parabellum pistol with caliber 9 mm, which is highly likely, the complete link text should be [[Luger pistol|Parabellum pistol]] with [[9×19mm Parabellum|cal. 9 mm]]. An alternative would be [[Luger pistol|Parabellum pistol cal. 9 mm]]. [This post was strongly edited compared to the first version to make it more understandable]. Pittigrilli (talk) 22:25, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
- Pittigrilli, I think you are right. One of the sources said the weapon was a "9 mm Parabellum" and another said it was a Luger pistol, if I'm remembering correctly. I went and changed the article as suggested. (t · c) buidhe 08:40, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

