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Following a reply of mine at the Teahouse some time ago, I have offered to assist an editor who is concerned about a WP:COI in editing this article directly (see also thread immediately above this one). He has sent me an off-wiki set of suggestions for minor alterations and appropriate sources or concerns over any statements already in the article (nine relatively minor suggestions in total). This is just to say that I will slowly work through that list, and treat them as if they were an edit request. If I find anything contentious, I undertake to bring it to this talk page for discussion and agreement. I have no other connection with this editor, save for a general interest in Antarctica. Nick Moyes (talk) 09:30, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• (Discussion from User talk:Timfoley50) Out of interest BrownHairedGirl, which sources on this page do you consider "scholarly" and not "popular and accessible"? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  This is ANI. There are no sources on this page.

  If you want to discuss the sources on an article, use the article's talk page. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @BrownHairedGirl Look again what page this is? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:36, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Ah, sorry. My mistake.

  Right page, but if someone wants a general source review, open a thread on that.

  This thread is about the 5-year campaign by an author to push his on book. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:40, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  As you wish, BrownHairedGirl. Shall we resume? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:42, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Fire away. I won't be participating.

  My only interest here has been the disruption caused by the 5-year campaign of promotional efforts by one author, after he asked me on Saturday to assist his campaign.

  Along the way I have noted how that book does not appear to be regarded by its publishers as a scholarly work ... but that does not mean that I want wider involvement in the article.

  I also want no further dealings with AirshipJungleman29. Please do not ping me again.

  If other editors believe that this thread looks like a genuine source discussion rathe than point-scoring, they may decide to participate. That is their choice. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:02, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nice. Time to rewrite an article, methinks. So to summarise, the article relies predominantly on webpages, three memoirs from a century ago (Shackleton, Huxley and Cherry-Garrard), and a variety of popular sources. Hopefully, I can reorganise them in such a way that the article doesn't have to go to FAR. Anybody think this is a waste of time? I'll leave this question up for a week, in case anyone does. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For a number of years now, I’ve been attempting to bring about changes to this article as can be testified by the discussions on this talk page. On occasion, a strong passion to see alterations take place, got under the skin of a few others here and in hindsight, I get that - Rome wasn’t built in a day. Some sceptics saw my requests as being self-serving, after all, I’d written a biography about Tom Crean and I would stand to benefit from the changes if they were implemented. From the outset I had declared a conflict of interests but, try as I might to convey that my motives were entirely unselfish, they were still viewed on with suspicion by some and so I walked away for a period.

My biography of Crean, which I published in 2018, was a self-published version yet I discovered a host of new information during my research and I became aware that a number of things that populated the Wiki article for Tom Crean, were incorrect.

To try and get a better understanding of how alterations could possibly take place, I contacted the administrator of Wikimedia Ireland, via Twitter. At this time I was aware of the Wikipedia policy that rendered self-published books of low value when it came to sources used in evidence to provide integrity to a Wiki article. Her suggestion was to approach the Royal Irish Academy and attempt changes via the Dictionary of Irish Biography. I submitted all of my research to RIA and, after examination, changes to the DIB entry for Crean were implemented.

Wikipedia picked up on a number of the alterations and because they couldn’t be attributed to my research for a self-published book, they were instead attributed to DIB.

Any barrier to referencing my book in the Wikipedia page appeared to have been removed when, in May 2023, my biography of Crean was published by Merrion Press, an imprint of Irish Academic Press. However, an editor, who has since been blocked, took issue with this stating that books under the Merrion Press imprint did not qualify as being ‘scholarly’ The spat that followed led to an indefinite block being put on me by another editor who I believe is also now blocked.

My block has now been lifted and I'm extremely grateful for that. What I would like to propose to help kick start the process and, if there’s a consensus among editors here, is to provide a list of changes/additions for discussions to begin.

For fear of creating what could be considered a wall of text I’ll end things at this point and will wait to hear feedback from others in the first instance (Timfoley50 (talk) 15:26, 13 December 2023 (UTC))[reply]

Hi. I will not reply with another "wall of text" so will simply ask that any proposed changes please be:

• clear, concise and specific. Not vague and expansive. (EG: "Section A currently says 'Crean did XYZ in 1913'. Propose changing to 'Crean did ABC in 1912)
• supported by verifiable, reliable and specific sources. Not vague and expansive (EG: "DIB entry expressly says 'blah blah ABC 1912'". Not "My research suggests [etc etc no specific ref/page/quote/whatever]".
• made only after discussion here. (Not least as, it seems, that some of the sources vary slightly in a few areas.)

(Otherwise the above is another 500 words about "my book" and "my biography" and "my publisher". And, as per my note of July 2023, it is still unclear what ACTUAL text changes are being proposed.) Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 16:06, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Added to what Guliolopez has written above, there's also, obviously, the option of citing the sources you found when doing your research, rather than exclusively relying on DIB. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 17:46, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just to give a TL;DR version on the previous block on Timfoley50 (in case anyone can't follow along the events that unfolded). Timfoley50 followed proper protocol by declaring COI and sought comments on proposed changes on this very talk page. An editor, now banned by ArbCom for unable to work collaboratively with others, took Timfoley50 to ANI. That discussion was cut short when Timfoley50's usertalk page was revoked by an admin which turns out to be a sockpuppet of another ArbCom indef banned user. Timfoley50's block was reviewed by the community and it's decided to give a second chance since nobody would have known how the conversation would have turned out if it wasn't touched by two indef banned users who played a significant role in the outcome. I agree with Guliolopez's example. It will be very beneficial to have an itemized list of things that should be revised (as precise as possible). And sources should be diverse. If multiple sources conflict with each other, it is possible to cite both versions, e.g. After returning in November 1916, though some source say October 1916, instead of focusing on stating the "right" version. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 15:52, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that, but just for the record, BrownHairedGirl's ban was in no way related to this article or editor. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 18:45, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well... it was more about BrownHairedGirl's general unwillingness to collaborate and battleground mentality. But we're going off-topic here. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 23:39, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@OhanaUnited Thank you for clarifying and before submitting proposed changes to the article, am I able to attribute the relevant changes to Crean - The Extraordinary Life of an Irish Hero in which all source references are detailed in the back matter? As I've mentioned before, I would be happy to provide all the evidence to an editor/s who, unlike myself, don't have a COI relating to the article. The only way I was able to have changes applied previously was via DIB who I submitted all my source evidence to and who were attributed in the notes for this article. Since that time the biography has been published. Timfoley50 (talk) 13:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'AM' is the postnominal letters for the Albert Medal - which Tom Crean was a recipient of. - (161.29.255.157 (talk) 02:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC))[reply]