Talk:Somali Civil War (2009–present)

Updated map

Created file Somali Civil War Map on the 8th March 2025.svg on wikimedia commons based on the 2025 Shabelle offensive, should it be added? RowanJ LP (talk) 21:28, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why not. Zabezt (talk) 15:23, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
just added it Malka d-Ashur (talk) 18:14, 21 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Error in map

On the map, Isaaq clan coastal territory in Sanaag (around Heis and Maydh) are marked as under Somali control. They should be marked as under Somaliland, along with Jidali which Somaliland took over earlier in January.[1][2] 𐒈𐒚𐒐𐒆𐒛𐒒 Gebagebo (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Balad, Adale and other towns free too https://hornobserver.com/articles/3248/Somalia-President-holds-series-of-meetings-with-local-elders-in-Adale-Middle-Shabelle-region-to-intensify-Shabab-offensive

RFC about the map

From what I’ve seen for a few months now, the map currently in use is incredibly outdated, and something needs to be done about it. I’ll leave the following two options I suggested here below; Zabezt (talk) 03:00, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We keep Map A, made by user @Guardafuuii, with MAJOR updates.
We use Map B, made by user @Zabezt, technically the consensus of [previous RfC.]
Zabezt (talk) 03:08, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Sifeeye
@Hawkers994
@AVeryBigHat
@Abzeronow
@Freetrashbox
@Billboardbillal
@Replayerr
@Munsaar55
@Wowzers122
@Gebagebo
@RowanJ LP
@IdioticAnarchist
@HetmanTheResearcher
@Shadowwarrior8
@Guardafuuii
@Sir Ross
@QalasQalas
@Durranistan
@Borysk5
Zabezt (talk) 03:14, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware of recent offensives in Somalia. However, we should not show them until RS (so, a single map) are willing to show them. Otherwise, we risk making a synthesized mess of news articles and twitter posts that is impossible to verify (WP:V). In fact, twitter posts would probably fall under (WP:PRIMARY) if they are not from a news org or publisher but instead a first-hand account of events there. I see no issue with using a relatively old map, such as from 2023 or early 2024. Wikipedia can then wait for a more up-to-date map to be published, being behind-the-curve or the news cycle, so to speak. HetmanTheResearcher (talk) 07:17, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I also note that a freelance journalist would not be off the question. Thomas van Linge, for example, is cited for the Myanmar Civil War page on Wikipedia despite posting of Twitter. In that case, editors presented evidence of quality sources (New York Times if memory serves me right) citing his maps. If we can find a Twitter source of equal quality to him, I would be fine using it. HetmanTheResearcher (talk) 07:21, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to wait for the offensive in Puntland to end to change the map — then the offensive in south-central Somalia happened. Should I modify the map now or wait? Guardafuuii (talk) 11:30, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
For now, I’d suggest pleasing fellow user @Gebagebo on their request to fix areas in northern Sanaag. (The content directly above this one.) Zabezt (talk) 16:53, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
How did I go
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Somali_Civil_War_April_2025.svg Guardafuuii (talk) 21:44, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's pretty good. But I'd suggest making Puntland and its cities purple to match the detailed map. And making Jubaland and it’s cities green. Zabezt (talk) 00:07, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with showing Puntland and Jubaland as purple and green respectively; however, I think a more pastel or lightened version of the two colors should be used. Sir Ross ★▀▀ (talk) 13:56, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Zabezt (talk) 15:02, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
kinda like this Zabezt (talk) 19:30, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is, there have been multiple people here, and on Talk:Somali Civil War who have been requesting updates to the map, from slight fixes, (such as @Gebagebo asking for an error fix in Northern Sanaag) to massive updates, (@RowanJ LP literally making a new file and @Malka d-Ashur actually putting it on the articles.) The offensives aren’t the only problem that needs to be addressed here, although it looks like it would be pleased by everyone currently involved. Zabezt (talk) 16:47, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 July 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 03:57, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Somali Civil War (2009–present) → Second Somali Civil War – After the military junta assassinated President Abdirashid Shermarke and staged 1969 coup, Somalia endured 21 years of harsh military rule.

The exact start of the Somali Civil War is disputed but many institutions cite 1991 as the onset. By 2009, the conflict had escalated into an international battleground following foreign intervention, with spillover effects across the Horn of Africa.

Consequently, I suggest renaming Second Somali Civil War. QalasQalas (talk) 00:02, 18 July 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. – MrAussieGuy (Talk) 01:26, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

78.190.159.49 (talk) 14:14, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Hate to be the guy to ask, but could you provide the sources that refer to this as the "Second Somali Civil War"? Also, I have seen debate on the Syrian civil war page because of capitalization, so make sure it is Second Somali Civil War and not Second Somali civil war in your sources. Sir Ross ★▀▀ (talk) 13:14, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The “First” Somali Civil War ending in any way shape or form would be a really big change, and the war still ongoing is mentioned everywhere.
Also, what even is the conflict right now? Is it still a civil war? Or is it a terrorist insurgency? Zabezt (talk) 05:33, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
On that note, I have seen the Somaliland War discussed as a separate conflict from the conflict with al-Shabaab and IS. Further, Somaliland has arguably had 3-4 distinct conflicts with Somalia (according to the infobox on Somali Civil War). Sir Ross ★▀▀ (talk) 14:29, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Sir Ross mention please the separate conflicts. QalasQalas (talk) 17:00, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Most likely referring to the 5 times Somaliland is mentioned on that articles infobox, with only two of them being based on actual conflicts with Somalia (Independence war and Las Anod Conflict) Zabezt (talk) 20:53, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What he said. If you look at the infobox, the dates are all over the place and could be justified as multiple separate conflicts, but since they are all contiguous (leaving no gap years), it could also be argued to be one conflict. Sir Ross ★▀▀ (talk) 12:58, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Right now, the conflict in Somalia primarily involves the federal government and its allies fighting against Al-Shabaab, a jihadist militant group. It’s less of a broad civil war and more of a long-running insurgency, though it still has roots in the original civil war. Majid8097 (talk) 22:20, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well in that case the most logical solution to me is to rename the article "Al-Qaeda insurgency in Somalia" with the Short description of "Ongoing phase of the Somali Civil War." Zabezt (talk) 22:34, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You’re right that the conflict now looks a lot like an insurgency focused on Al-Shabaab and its links to Al-Qaeda. Renaming the article "Al-Qaeda Insurgency In Somalia" or "The Rise of Al-Qaeda in Somalia", similar to how conflicts in Iraq and Syria are labeled, would probably be more appropriate. I’d support anyone who pushes for that change, as it better captures the current reality while still acknowledging the broader Somali Civil War context. Majid8097 (talk) 22:44, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, Google Scholar brings up no results for "Second Somali civil war" and no RSs come up in a Google search Kowal2701 (talk) 07:10, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Islam, WikiProject Nigeria, WikiProject Burundi, WikiProject Somalia, WikiProject Islam/Sunni Islam task force, WikiProject United States, WikiProject Kenya, WikiProject Ethiopia, WikiProject United Kingdom, WikiProject Military history, WikiProject Africa, WikiProject Islam/Salaf task force, WikiProject Sierra Leone, WikiProject 2010s, WikiProject Islam/Islam and Controversy task force, WikiProject Uganda, WikiProject International relations, WikiProject Djibouti, WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force, and WikiProject Ghana have been notified of this discussion. – MrAussieGuy (Talk) 08:49, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I think it is WP:TOOSOON for such a rename because the topic of the article is still ongoing, and per @Kowal2701 and @Sir Ross there are no WP:RS calling it "Second Somali Civil War". Furthermore, the article states that the 2009-present civil war is the ongoing phase of the Somali Civil War. The article's scope/lede would have to be changed before any rename takes place, because as of right now it is uncertain if it is going to be called the second civil war or if it will still be considered as part of the first, WP:CRYSTALBALL. TurboSuperA+(talk) 09:16, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - no one calls it that 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:40, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. While the nature of the conflict has changed since 2009, there's never been a formal or widely recognized end to the original Somali Civil War. The fighting simply shifted in form. From clan-based factional warfare and warlordism to a more structured state battling insurgent groups like Al-Shabaab.
If a clearer distinction is needed, something like "Somali Civil War Phase II (2009–present)" might be more appropriate. It shows the war shifted from clan to clan, to counter insurgency. Majid8097 (talk) 22:33, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Majid8097. There's never been an absolute break in the fighting since 1987/88. Buckshot06 (talk) 07:58, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Puntland on map

Puntland seems to control much more of Northeastern Somalia than what is shown on the map (Personal map https://imgur.com/a/somalia-civil-war-map-8mhdoIC)

Also, regarding mapping the Al-Shabaab Insurgency, I feel like it's odd to use a map from a person on Twitter with very little sourcing rather than a reliable institute dedicated to global conflicts which cites their sources; that being Critical Threats (sorry if I sound "ivory tower"-esque, and no insult to AAGA Cawllan, I think your map is great, but please begin citing your sources on the map!) IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:42, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your concern, although me personally trust the user. They seem to have earlier access to battle updates. Like when Al-Shabaab captured Xawaadley a few months ago, they updated their map a day before Somali media such as Garowe Online and Somali Guardian could report it. And speaking of which, Somali Guardian has used their map as a source for Al-Shabaab’s offensive.
And the lack of Puntland control is on me, the user lists areas in Sanaag and Northern Sool as a gray zone/contested zone between Puntland and Woqoyi Bari. I didn’t include it fearing that it would be too complicated for a Wikipedia reference map. And honestly, most of the pink territory on the map is contested. Which is why it’s hard to point out the Somali government’s “Operation Silent Storm.”
So overall, my apologies. I’m gonna add “contested territory” alongside “Somali territory” on the article’s infobox. Thank you. Zabezt (talk) 00:37, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
allikas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Somali_Civil_War_(2009%E2%80%93present)