Talk:Meanings of minor-planet names

Auto-grey redirects via Lua?

@Rfassbind: I saw this and thought I could write a small helper template, like {{Meanings of minor planet names/Grey}}, that will check the page for a redirect and return the necessary table wikitext to grey it out, and otherwise return normal table wikitext. What do you think?   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  11:55, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Tom.Reding:. Sure, go for it! Rfassbind – talk 12:53, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also consider to reuse some of your new code for the templates {{TOC001}} and {{Meanings of minor planet names}}, where automatic #R-detection and greying-out links could be applied as well, I think. Rfassbind – talk 13:08, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, between the helper template & {{LinkCatIfExists2}}, I believe I can cover all cases.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  13:53, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Totally forgot about this, but finally got around to it, via {{MoMP index element}}...   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  22:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, would it be possible to turn all the references on the subpages (the lists) to proper references with <ref></ref>. I find it confusing that these pages have a different system and use other symbols. Including other information about the url such as name and archive url also helps the verifiability long term. See also Wikipedia:Bare URLs. Dajasj (talk) 05:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. These should be turned into proper citations. Rublamb (talk) 14:42, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rating partial MoMP lists & redirects

I think having the partial lists classified as |class=list from inception is the best option (as opposed to |class=redirect or |class=<blank>), whether or not they are currently a redirect, or have already been turned into a proper list. 2 reasons for this:

  1. the category output of {{WikiProject banner shell}} is the same for both #Rs and for proper lists (easily tested on non-#R & currently-#RTalk:Meanings of minor planet names: 699001–700000 examples) due to its redirect-detection
  2. using |class=redirect or |class=<blank> places the page into 4 unassessed WikiProject categories (list, ast, astro, & ss) once the page becomes a proper list, which adds more work to be done after a page is converted from a redirect, and into Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell without a project-independent quality rating if |class=redirect is used

One of the goals, I think, is to minimize the steps necessary to bring a page out of dormancy as a redirect to a proper list, which |class=list does, with no real downside. Ping to Praemonitus who has done some recent rating here.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  14:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, a redirect will automatically override the class setting, so there's no harm in setting it to 'list'. However, the way WP:AST importance ratings are assigned, a redirect has a 'na' importance while a 'list' will have a normal low/med/high/top importance. Praemonitus (talk) 05:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Praemonitus: I think it's ok if the temporary #Rs are misclassified as lists for the time they remain #Rs, even if that time is lengthy, since their intended purpose and eventual destination is to be a list. Otherwise it just seems like a distinction without much of a difference. But, if you want to keep track of that, go for it.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  17:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some things just grow by incremental edits and get out of hand. The "External links" section, one of the optional appendices, has grown to 17 entries. Three seems to be an acceptable number and of course, everyone has their favorite to try to add for a forth. While not the most egregious the overlisting was very excessive
The problem is that none is needed for article promotion.
  • ELpoints #3) states: Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.
  • LINKFARM states: There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to the external links section of an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate.
  • ELMIN: Minimize the number of links. --
  • ELCITE: Do not use {{cite web}} or other citation templates in the External links section. Citation templates are permitted in the Further reading section.
Inclusion as an "External link" should contain further research that is accurate and on-topic, information that could not be added to the article for reasons such as copyright or amount of detail, or other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article for reasons unrelated to its accuracy.
  • WP:ELBURDEN: Disputed links should be excluded by default unless and until there is a consensus to include them. -- Otr500 (talk)

Moved to talk page

I moved the deleted links here for any possible discussion.
The below content, with references, can likely be used in the article but not as a reference in the "External links" section

Some systematic sources of citations are:

In the first two cases you need only modify the last argument of the address to the name or number of the minor planet. The lists of discovery circumstances are split into groups of 5000 minor planets, each containing links for individual named minor planets that access the script displaying citations. -- Otr500 (talk) 10:41, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

4087 no more frequency?

Last Wednesday (May 14) around 08:25 UTC, the Sun showed us an incredible X2.7-class solar flare, the most powerful one recorded this year. This event was captured, of course, by NASA’s Solar Dynamics Observatory, it erupted from the most active part of this star, called region 4087, located on the eastern edge of the .https://unionrayo.com/en/sun-biggest-solar-flare-2025-nasa/ 2600:387:15:551D:0:0:0:8 (talk) 11:08, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Schlottmann" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Schlottmann has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 August 5 § Schlottmann until a consensus is reached. ArthananWarcraft (talk) 12:52, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mbabamwanawaresa

@Kwamikagami: On 30 September 2025, you've added the word "purported" to the explanation of this name, asking if this goddess exists. What's the source for the doubt? Right now, I am inclined to remove the "purported".

I tried to find a reliable source for the existence of the goddess, but I've had mixed luck so far. The name is mentioned in multiple sources prior to the naming of the object. The question is whether those sources are reliable. For example, the anthology "African Religions. Beliefs and Practices through History" by Douglas Thomas and Temilola Alanamu from 2018 has a section about it, referencing Berglund's "Zulu Thought-Patterns and Symbolism" from 1989. I looked at Berglund's book, and I cannot find any mention of the goddess.

On the other hand, there are sources dating back to the 1970s that mention Mbaba Mwana Waresa. Examples include "The Politics of Women's Spirituality Essays on the Rise of Spiritual Power Within the Feminist Movement" from 1982, and "Ancient Mirrors of Womanhood" from 1979. Do those sources establish that the goddess actually exists? I don't know. None of them are anthropological studies. But they indicate that your question needs an explanation before we can openly raise doubts. Renerpho (talk) 09:07, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Purportedly it's another name for 'Nomkhubulwane'. But the article on her was deleted as unsubstantiated; the request was from someone who is apparently Zulu. I don't recall if I saw the request at the time; I'll ask the deleter where it's archived. — kwami (talk) 09:48, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Kwamikagami: Thanks! This was an expired PROD.[1] At the time of its deletion, the article used these references:
  1. Hennig, Wanda. "Even the Spirits Need a Menu as a Zulu Goddess - Cuisine Noir Magazine". www.cuisinenoirmag.com. Archived from the original on 2016-09-10. Retrieved 2016-03-06.
  2. "Nomkhubulwane - Andries Botha - Artworks & Sculpture". andriesbotha.net.
  3. Conway, D. J. (2003). Magick of the Gods and Goddesses: Invoking the Power of the Ancient Gods. The Crossing Press. p. 208. ISBN 1-58091-153-6.
  4. Rogers, Lynn (2004). Edgar Cayce and the Eternal Feminine. Star Enterprises International. p. 22. ISBN 1-929841-02-7.
I agree that none of these are reliable. But better sources may have been available. Renerpho (talk) 12:40, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The oldest archived version of the article, from 2006, also lists Encyclopedia Mythica as a source. As of 2026, that encyclopedia has no entry on the goddess. Renerpho (talk) 12:45, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The old EncMyth article is at web.archive for www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/africa/african/articles.html, from 1999. By 2020 it was gone, apparently with all the other African stuff. — kwami (talk) 13:22, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The content was,
Mbaba Mwana Waresa, by Dr Anthony E. Smith
Mbaba Mwana Waresa is a beloved goddess of the Zulu people of Southern Africa, primarily because she gave them the gift of beer. She is the goddess of the rainbow, rain, harvest, and agriculture. The story of her search for a husband is well-known, and recently appeared in a beautifully illustrated children's book.
Article created on 28 August 1999; last modified on 05 April 2001.
— kwami (talk) 13:51, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how reliable that is, but I've removed 'purported' until we see what the objection to the article was. — kwami (talk) 13:56, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Thanks for the pantheon.org reference. Renerpho (talk) 16:21, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Copying the response of the user who requested deletion:
Hi, There is indeed such a goddess as Nomkhubulwane in the Nguni pantheon e.g. in Zulu traditional religion, but there is no such deity as Mbana Mwana Waresa in the same pantheon nor is Mbaba Mwana Waresa known to the people of that nation. Mbana Mwana Waresa is not even a term in any South African language (I suspect it's an East African term or from another Southern African country but I stand corrected). If people want to restore that page they need to provide more concrete evidence. Alternatively, the article needs to be overhauled to provide evidence of credible academic links between different Southern and East African fertility goddesses. However, it is literally misinformation for the article to claim that this deity is a Zulu deity in particular. Equivalent pages in other language wikis are equally problematic in that they solely cite or primarily depend on disreputable sources e.g., Legends of Beer and Thingz Afrikan. Edwin Ndaba (talk) 07:10, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the concord looks wrong for Zulu. — kwami (talk) 01:10, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
It's quite possible that all these short descriptions come directly or indirectly from Merlin Stone (1979) Ancient mirrors of womanhood: our goddess and heroine heritage, which has 2 full pages on Mbaba Mwana Waresa. I wonder if somewhere along the line someone just swapped a couple names. — kwami (talk) 01:44, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Kwamikagami: Thanks! (For reference, Edwin Ndaba's comment comes from here.)
Could you clarify what you mean by "the concord looks wrong for Zulu"?
If Edwin is right (and while we have no way to know, I'm inclined to take them seriously), this will be difficult to rectify without either digging up some very obscure references, or doing the research ourselves. A friend of mine has described the situation as "an anthropological game of telephone", which may be quite apt.
I have borrowed the 1984 reprint of Merlin Stone's book. The trail of evidence seems to start with Stone in 1979. If we can find out what her source was, that could be very useful. As you said, she devotes about two pages to the story (p.151-153). She gives no source for it, although the book includes a bibliography which she states includes the main sources for the work, sorted by "cultural area". Here is the list for Africa. I have put those that sound potentially relevant in boldface. One of them has its own Wikipedia article:
  • Arnott, K. African Myths and Legends Retold Oxford University Press 1962
  • Bleek, W.H. & Lloyd, L.C. Specimens of Bushman Folklore Allen and Unwin 1911
  • Crowther, S. & Taylor, J.C. The Gospel on the Banks of the Niger London 1859
  • Forde, D. African Worlds Oxford University Press 1954
  • Harden, D. The Phoenicians Thames & Hudson 1962
  • Heidel, A. Babylonian Genesis University of Chicago 1951
  • Hitti, P. The History of Syria Macmillan 1951
  • Herskovits, M.J. Dahomean Narrative Northwestern University Press 1938
  • Hollis, Claude. The Nandi Oxford University Press 1909
  • Itayemi, P. & Gurrey, P. Folk Tales and Fables Penguin 1953
  • Knappert, Jan. Myths and Legends of the Congo Heinemann 1971
  • Krige, E.J. The Realm of a Rain Queen Oxford 1943
  • Ladner, Joyce. Tomorrow's Tomorrow, The Black Woman Doubleday 1971
  • Little, K.L. The Mende of Sierra Leone Routledge & Kegan Paul 1951
  • MacDonald, Duff. The Heart of Africa Aberdeen 1882
  • Marvel, Elinore & Radin, Paul. African Folktales and Sculpture Bollingen Series Pantheon 1952
  • Parrinder, E.G. West African Religions Epworth London 1949
  • Rattray, R.S. Ashanti Religion Oxford 1923
  • -- Religion and Art in Ashanti Oxford 1927
  • -- Akan - Ashanti Folk Tales Oxford 1930
  • Torrend, J. Bantu Folklore Routledge & Kegan Paul 1921
  • Wagner, G. The Bantu of North Kavirondo Oxford 1949
  • Werner, Alice. Myths and Legends of the Bantu Harrap 1933
I'm not sure if that list inspires confidence. Some of these sources are quite old... Renerpho (talk) 12:26, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
By the way: Do you know if anyone has ever contacted Marc Buie about either Mbabamwanawaresa, or Altjira? Renerpho (talk) 12:26, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Not that I know of. But if he recalls where they got the names, they likely won't be RS's. — kwami (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Old doesn't mean unreliable. I tried The Realm of a Rain Queen; it seems quite a nice book at a glance, but doesn't seem to be the source for Mbaba.
I once had a smidgen of Xhosa, and the name doesn't look right to me. But then I hardly remember anything of it. Maybe we could check with Zulu WP or some prof of the language.
But there's a good chance that Mbaba is in the biblio above, and she might even be identified correctly. — kwami (talk) 23:20, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
allikas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Meanings_of_minor_planet_names:_160,001%E2%80%93170,000