The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The creation of the "Murder of" article during this discussion causes some unwarranted complication of how to resolve this issue, but the consensus on this article is clear. If that article survives AfD, this should be recreated as a redirect to it. Shereth 22:23, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph Didier (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

A very sad story, but this murder victim doesn't appear to be very notable. AniMate 09:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. But since the event is notable, not the person, Move to Murder of Joseph Didier per WP:ONEEVENT. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 15:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. While indeed sad and tragic, the victim nor his murder are not notable by Wikipedia standards. The assertion that the murder "changed the local community" is a personal observation that cannot be proved. Murders of single victims are generally not considered to be notable by Wikipedia standards because, unfortunately, they are so numerous. Exceptions are made when such crimes are highly publicized and attract coverage in national media. I'm afraid this young man's killing doesn't quite clear the bar. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 17:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• The assertion that the murder "changed the local community" is not a personal observation. It states so explicitly in the reliable sources provided by the article. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 18:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Alternatively, Merge/Redirect to Rockford, Illinois#History. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. -- brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Neither the victim nor the crime appear to pass the relevant notability guidelines (for the victim this would be a WP:BLP1E case anyway even if the crime turned out to be notable). There are 16 hits in googlenews[1], mostly in local press, and 1 hit in google books[2]. Any relevant factual info may be added to to Rockford, Illinois#History, as Brewcrewer suggests. Nsk92 (talk) 20:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak delete as per nom. This article can't be kept as is. Artene50 (talk) 01:48, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and move to "Murder of Joseph Didier. The murder is much more signficant and has stood the test of time than Zoey Zane, which passed her AFD. People still talk about Didier today. The murder is possibly the most significant murder in northern Illinois (outside of Chicago) history. Presumptive (talk) 17:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The murder of Zoey Zane has been extensively covered in international, national and local news. (The article about her lists 27 references). The same does not appear to be the case for Didier. If the case is as notable as you say, there would be no trouble with providing sufficient references. "People still talk about it" is not a convincing argument. Nsk92 (talk) 17:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Visit the Rockford Public Library and see the many, many articles in the newspaper. Just because the murder took place 20 years before the internet does not mean it didn't take place. Presumptive (talk) 05:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody is arguing here that "it didn't take place". If there are "many, many articles" in the newspapers, as you say, then you can add references to them to the WP article. Then there may be something to talk about. However, in any event, I would want to see some significant coverage of the case outside of the local press. Nsk92 (talk) 06:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

At the 2000 census, the Rockford, Illinois metropolitan area had 339,178 inhabitants. Assuming arguendo there was no coverage outside Rockford, a story that made a significant impact on 340k people (as the reliable sources attest) isn't notable?--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 15:31, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Nsk92. --Jessika Folkerts (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 20:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete There are, unfortunately, thousands of murders each year of which this is another sad example. There is nothing I can find, and indeed nothing asserted in the article, that might suggest that this incident is particularly notable. I also note that someone has today created the article Murder of Joseph Didier with identical content to this one. Both that and this article should both be deleted at the conclusion of this AFD. Debate 木 07:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete. Again, it's sad, but it is not a crime which is set apart from many many others like it. I have also nominated the "Murder of" article for deletion here. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 07:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • Oopos! I voted twice, sorry. I thought this AfD looked familiar. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 16:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The victim here is not notable, however the murder is, as it received national news coverage, as I have noted here. Kevin (talk) 08:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per one event. Jasynnash2 (talk) 12:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep but I disagree with merging with "Murder of ...". Someone looking for information on this 3-decade-old murder will not type that in but will type in the subject's name. Therefore this should remain the article of record and incorporate any different material from the Murder of ... article. Keep pending the addition of promised sources with no prejudice against renomination in 6-12 months if improvements aren't made. 23skidoo (talk) 14:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't that why we have redirects? Guest9999 (talk) 14:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• DeleteThis is not a true crime archive, There are hundreds of thousands of murders a year of otherwise non-notable individuals, and an encyclopedia is not the place to preserve the information about each one. The murder did no apparently result in any new "Megan's Law" or "Amber Alert" and the article should be deleted for reasons better stated at the essay WP:NOTNEWS and the policy WP:NOT#NEWS. Edison (talk) 15:20, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Murder of Joseph Didier in accordance with WP:ONEEVENT and let that AfD settle the issue on notability. The redirect is the preferred outcome anyway. Jim Miller (talk) 18:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: Non-notable murder victim. DCEdwards¹⁹⁶⁶ 18:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.