The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  06:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

John Dutton (composer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Notability is in question Jrod2 (talk) 13:55, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• The content of this article is not solely verifiable through wiki links. All references are verifiable and correct - IMDB, discogs, ISBN number in relation to books published and www.impactmusic.net the composer's website. I therefore cannot understand on what basis the article is being considered for deletion. (unsigned comments by Bernard23129).

• comments: The original editor Bernard23129 who left the comments above just contacted me with this IP address 212.56.88.111 (UK). Nothing wrong with one writing about oneself and creating a personal article at Wikipedia, but what other contributors have to decide is if self-publishing and a few Discogs credits are sufficient proof of notability. Jrod2 (talk) 17:45, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He was a member of the band The Apostles (Acid Jazz), has written several books and has been credited on TV soundtracks. I have added a list of books to the article and adjusted the references to support the text. Cjc13 (talk) 13:39, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:31, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:32, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. IF the subject can prove with an interview (with a reputable magazine or online music site} or a top BillBoard ranking composition, a Grammy nomination {is there one for The Apostles (Acid Jazz)?) or a publishing award {because the subject is also a writer) then I don't see the point in keeping this article at all. If WP is to list anyone and everyone who has written a book and or wrote a song, play music with friends, taught music at elementary or high school, etc, etc, then this would be a very pretty non-encyclopedic site. Jrod2 (talk) 14:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC) Note: Jrod2 is the nominator --Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:01, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He has released an album under the name The Apostles which has been reissued in 2008, his books are published by established publishers and he has written scores for TV in both the UK and USA, so he clearly is not a trivial performer/writer. Cjc13 (talk) 09:18, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• comments: Does anybody know the notability requirement for a loose-leaf/paperback writer? Also the band "The Apostles" is under AfD because of the same issues under WP:N. I don't see any nominations or top charting records either. I am not really "deletionist" but I would like to see at least one mediocre article written about this subject by a reputable journalist of a major publication. Since the editors feel that this person is a subject of relevance in the arts they shouldn't have a problem finding sources. Jrod2 (talk) 14:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. To me, it looks like everything Dutton does qualifies him as a yeoman, a hard worker, but not as a famous person. The TV show compositions haven't garnered one award, the stack of instruction books hasn't been given rave notices or scored in sales, and the work as a musician, though helping the Acid Jazz label gain some initial traction, hasn't brought Dutton's name to the fore. Binksternet (talk) 15:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –Juliancolton | ^Talk 03:50, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I have added to the article the reissue of the Apostles album and his recent work with Guthrie Govan. Cjc13 (talk) 23:25, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment My vote is still "delete" as it continues to appear that Dutton is a hard working guy who so far has not had fame visit him. Binksternet (talk) 03:06, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. It is important to note that a notability determination does not necessarily depend on things like fame or importance (see WP:N). "Articles on persons only notable for being associated with a certain group or event may be merged into the main article on that group or event" (see WP:N). This is already the case at Guthrie Govan. But still, this article clearly does not meet the necessary criteria for inclusion. Jrod2 (talk) 12:36, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.