Talk:North End (café)

Three sources enough?

@Velella One is a very in depth overview, another a reporting on levy of a fine, and another is a normal review. Is this enough for notability? Greatder (talk) 05:22, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Greatder - Setting aside the report of legal action for selling coffee with outdated milk, the other two sources both use quotes from the owner . This means that both are affiliated and not independent and there not WP:RS. I have moved the article to Draft to give some more time to find reliable and independent sources that establish notability.  Velella  Velella Talk   07:13, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Velella why would quotes from owner make it non-independent? It doesn't seem like paid advertising or sponsored news. Greatder (talk) 13:56, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Velella Since last time, I have been able to track down quite a few more source in Bangla, since I don't want to transfer without consensus I am pinging you again. Greatder (talk) 09:43, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Greatder - I only rarely re-visit a Draft article for review to try and avoid any undue bias. Having different editors conducting reviews does, in my view, give more balance.  Velella  Velella Talk   16:38, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Velella I think there's enough notability, if someone else thinks it is still not notable, they can move it back. Greatder (talk) 18:38, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Greatder - no, actually they cannot (although I guess admins may be able to do this). For us mortals the next stage, if notability is in serious doubt, is via an WP:AFD which may result in the article being deleted. It would have been much, much better to have left it in draft until an experienced editor agreed that it deomstrated notability. Now the article is significantly at risk....  Velella  Velella Talk   16:35, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Velella, this is wrong. Wikipedia:Independent sources are allowed to interview people. Journalists are allowed to quote the subject. They are allowed to read business's websites and press releases. Doing a good job of researching the subject doesn't make them non-independent of the subject.
The Business Standard should be considered non-independent of this business if the newspaper has a bona fide connection to this business. For example: If the same person owns the publication and the coffee shop, then the newspaper would not be (fully) independent of the coffee shop. If the coffee shop paid the newspaper to publish a favorable news story (NB: not an advertisement, but the actual news article), then the newspaper would not be independent of the coffee shop.
Similarly, the author should be considered non-independent of this business if the journalist has a bona fide connection to this business. For example: If the journalist is married to the owner of the coffee shop, then the journalist would not be independent of the coffee shop. If the journalist works at the coffee shop on the weekends, then the journalist would not be independent of the coffee shop.
If this is unclear from the Wikipedia:Independent sources page, please let me know. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:57, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Mehedi Abedin just pinging to ask for your opinion on if this source: https://www.tbsnews.net/feature/panorama/how-cafe-dhakas-north-end-revolutionised-citys-coffee-culture-201451
is considered an independent significant coverage? Greatder (talk) 17:31, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The answer is 'yes' because:
  • It is coverage, because anything in a newspaper is media coverage.
  • It is significant coverage, because the coverage is substantially more than Wikipedia:One hundred words (it is about about 400 words) and contains information we could use to write an encyclopedia article.
  • It is independent, because ordinary daily newspapers are assumed to be independent sources by default, and we have no evidence that the default assumption is wrong in this particular instance.
As this is a business, two such sources are desirable. They do not have to be in English. It is preferable if they are not in the same newspaper/publication. They should be written by different people. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:07, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@WhatamIdoing the other three big coverage from Prothom Alo, Dhaka Tribune covers coffee growing and their inception, I would assume that just about covers it? Greatder (talk) 18:47, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think that just about covers it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:08, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:North_End_(caf%C3%A9)