This article needs a fundamental rewrite in many places

This page needs to be almost entirely rewritten because it's clear the authors had biases in favor of the ideology, in the writing, in the structure, and in the cherrypicked information that leads to outlandish claims, such as Dostoevsky being listed under the "Prominent intellectuals" section, when his later "conservative" thought was not reflective of any true ideological conservativism, and he is far more famous for his socialist critiques of conservative ideals. There are no distinctions made between the modern usages and classical usages of the term which leads to easily conflating wildly different thought as to place more academically well recieved thinkers that have contributed to relevant fields in with white nationalists and nazis. The refusal to list a certain diatinctly mustached Austrian painter in the "Prominent statesmen" tab while retaining figures that are more neutrally or positively viewed by general western society and modern scholars such as Shinzo Abe and Klemens von Metternich should be noted as well.

"A number of studies have found that disgust is tightly linked to political orientation. People who are highly sensitive to disgusting images are more likely to align with the political right and value traditional ideals of bodily and spiritual purity, tending to oppose, for example, abortion and gay marriage." This is a quote lifted directly from the article itself and it clearly and unabashedly does not just insinuate but outright claims that being gay is "bodily and spiritual" unpure. This is borderline hate speech. This is outright saying that being gay is "disguisting." This does not belong anywhere on this website.

It is clear the article's primary contributors have done this in order to paint what appears to be an "unbiased" view but is ultimately propaganda in service of making a modern movement appear more appealing to unsuspecting readers by rigorously weeding out any negative information. This is highly evidenced by the fact that there is no criticisms on this page, to one of the most heavily criticized political ideologies in human history.

In conclusion, Wikipedia is no place for propaganda machines and we need to collectively destroy this article and rebuild it from the ashes as to give an accurate portrayal of every end of conservatism in order to represent it on both equal footing with itself and with all other political ideologies' pages on this website. If it's truly so pure and good as this article currently makes it out to be, then there should be no threat in accurately representing it. 2600:8807:901:6400:D012:B48F:7496:B15C (talk) 05:19, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So Wikipedia:Be bold. And don't make accusations against other editors. TFD (talk) 05:37, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My efforts to explain the actions I am going to take, the actions I am encouraging others to take, and the reasons for those actions are being mistaken as a mere attempt at heckling. Also an explaination of the failures of other editors is fundamentally necessary to explain why the article needs to be rewritten in the first place in order to encourage other editors to follow. 2600:8807:901:6400:D012:B48F:7496:B15C (talk) 00:38, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your accusatorial and violent language violates Wikipedia’s guidelines of WP:AGF and WP:NPA. We do not tolerate WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour from people who do not respect the principle of WP:CONSENSUS.
And please get your facts straight. Dostoevsky was pro-Tsar, pro-Empire, pro-Orthodoxy, and anti-modernist, anti-anarchist, anti-nihilist. He wrote passionate essays for a conservative journal. By today’s standards, he was an ultraconservative traditionalist. Many authoritative sources identify him as a prominent conservative intellectual.
And stop conflating conservatism and "white nationalism”. The most conservative nations on earth, such as India, are not even white. There are East Asian nations—Japan, Singapore, South Korea—that have never had a left-wing government. Conservatives dominate politics in many Muslim nations—Marocco, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc. Africa is culturally conservative. Conservatism is significantly larger than "white nationalists," who constitute a fringe group even within the Western world.
Unlike communism and fascism, conservatism is not "one of the most heavily criticized political ideologies in human history". It is the mainstream ideology in large parts of the world, including today's Europe where conservative parties received almost twice as many votes as did leftist parties in the 2024 EU election. And according to WP:CRIT, "For topics about a particular point of view – such as philosophies (Idealism, Naturalism, Existentialism), political outlooks (Capitalism, Marxism), or religion (Islam, Christianity, Atheism) – it will usually be appropriate to have a 'Criticism' section or 'Criticism of ...' subarticle. Integrating criticism into the main article can cause confusion because readers may misconstrue the critical material as representative of the philosophy's outlook, the political stance, or the religion's tenets."
I would advise you to be acquainted with WP:P&G before making any further comments or edits. Trakking (talk) 09:13, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Categorization of conservative parties

User:Trakking elimated the division between historic and modern conservative parties: "removal of the arbitrary separation of national variants of conservatism into ”historical” and ”modern”, for which there were no sources referenced; organization of these national variants into their respective continents in an alphabetized structure."[1]

The distinction was between parties identified in Andrew Heywood's book Political Ideologies: An Introduction (Palagrave Macmillian 2003) and other political science books as ideologically conservative and parties that have been described as conservative in some sources but are more often described as liberal, Christian Democratic, far right, socialist or communist.

The historic parties emerged in the 19th century as a reaction to liberalism. The emergence of socialism in the late 19th century forced liberals and conservatives into alliance and conservatism declined as an ideology as the world they sought to conserve largely but not entirely disappeared.

It is worth mentioning the few conservative parties that outlived WWII.

Also, I don't see the point of listing the most right-wing parties in every country in the world. Wouldn't that be better in Right-wing politics or a separate list article? After all, the article defines conservatism as an ideology whose most prominent ideologue was Edmund Burke, not Friedrich Hayek. TFD (talk) 16:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References to "nuclear family"?

The "nuclear family" model seems to be western-centric, as I am Polish I can certainly state that a model of living with even more of your family (usually grandparents from the mother's or father's side) is more popular in the East, especially from a conservative viewpoint. However, the extended family article doesn't really seem to detail that kind of model either? I don't think "nuclear family" should be referenced here regardless, since it's contradictory to the beliefs of many conservatives outside of the West, I (anecdotally) know a lot of conservatives in Poland who think that the increasing adaptation of the nuclear family model is a cultural degeneration. Polish kurd (talk) 18:07, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Intellectuals

Why is there Jabotinsky, Mishima, Wang and Peterson in the "prominent intellectuals section? Jabotinsky and Mishima are more aligned with the nationalist, military groups rather than conservatives. One of the main purpose of the conservative thinking is the to preserve the traditional values and institutions, how can a communist government have if it the base of the communist revolution to destroy the traditional institutions, as in Marx and Engels Manifesto. Jordan Peterson is aligned with the right and traditionalist, but is not a conservative. The same way a nationalist militarist cannot be considered conservative. F5naran (talk) 14:25, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am against removing Wang Huning from the 'Prominent intellectuals' list, because Asia's conservative intellectives are not on the list at all except Yukio Mishima, and that Wang is a leading Chinese conservative (even though he is a member of the CCP) is hardly controversial. The CCP is a developmentalist party commonly seen in other non-developed countries, which does not follow Soviet orthodox communism in economic policy; PRC is a de facto state capitalist country. See also conservatism in the PRC: Conservatism in China. The current CCP advocates the revival of traditional Chinese values, including Confucianism, and Xi Jinping inherited Chiang Kai-shek's New Life Movement; all can be proven by sources. ProKMT (talk) 10:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If there's no further refutation, I'll add Wang Huning again ProKMT (talk) 10:06, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So why does the history section start with modern conservatism?

Doesn't history suggest, a whole history? 101.115.131.93 (talk) 07:05, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes history breaks when you try to stretch it back too far. It makes no sense to speak of conservatism and tenuous pre-modern analogies as if they are the same thing. That would do a great disservice to all involved. Remsense ‥ 论 07:25, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Conservatism
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