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Considering that there is already a list of Anarchic Communes on Wikipedia, and that this one has only been alive for 1 day, I'm not convinced that this topic qualifies for a separate article. I also question if the article was written by someone not directly involved in the CHAZ. Also, this article would definitely benefit from the "current events" header (ie the one that says something to the effect of "This article is about a developing event, as such details may change") but I'm not a smart enough man to know how to do that. 50.83.179.58 (talk) 02:25, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm from Pennsylvania, so I have no connection to the commune IRL. However, I believe that the commune article is notable and should stay. An article about a newly-founded "autonomous region of the US", which has multiple credible sources, should stay up despite how "soon" the article was written. -- Mt.FijiBoiz (talk) 02:25, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mt.FijiBoiz, it remains to be seen if this has a long-term impact. These kinds of demonstrations are quite common for the area (specifically Capitol Hill). Trying to insinuate that it's official in any way without appropriate reliable sources is misleading and runs afoul of WP:GNG and WP:NPOV. SounderBruce 04:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SounderBruce, It doesn't seem that the "formations" of autonomous regions is that common in Capitol Hill or anywhere in the US really. Multiple credible sources lend credence to the notability of the Zone. As for it being official, a statement about it being self-declared is probably in order. -- Mt.FijiBoiz

Mt.FijiBoiz,SounderBruce I'd err on the side of inclusion this time. The present moment doesn't feel like just another demonstration to me. The closest thing in memory is Occupy Wall Street, and the Occupy Seattle article still stands, and seems pretty good too. Groceryheist (talk) 04:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Groceryheist Add to the discussion on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone if you haven't already. Thanks! -- Mt.FijiBoiz

What makes you think its anarchist in nature? The anarchist part desperately needs sourcing. 92.8.90.232 (talk) 00:10, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for pointing that out. So far as I can tell, no WP:RS in article make any connection to anarchism. Accordingly, I have removed such mentions. NedFausa (talk) 00:48, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The President just tweeted about it and said the mayor had to take care of the anarchists who have taken over the city or he will do it himself. While he did not reference the zone specifically, it is very likely that he was referring to it. Also, should probably be added to the articleTheMemeMonarch (talk) 03:35, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The link https://industrialworker.org/the-birth-of-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/ isn't working for me. I've tagged it as a dead link in the article, but it's been removed. I'm not going to re-add, since the pace of the article is pretty fast right now and I don't want to disrupt that. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:37, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced with https://web.archive.org/web/20200609224556/https://industrialworker.org/the-birth-of-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/ that actually works. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:54, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the article will be re-posted later today: https://twitter.com/iww/status/1270700374505250818 --Boklm (talk) 12:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

While most sources list it as CHAZ, there is enough of a dissenting opinion and a growing opposition that has its sights on renaming it to the Capitol Hill Autonomous District. I feel that the fact that multiple people have edited the page to change it to this at least warrants the inclusion of it was an alternative name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Guy With Crocs (talk • contribs) 03:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I added "C.H.A.D." as an alternate name for the time being. If you can, please add a reference for the C.H.A.D. name. Thanks! -- Mt.FijiBoiz (talk03:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the movement is more aligned with CHAZ with the motive of differentiation from the already-used CHAD acronym meaning Capitol Hill Arts District. I've only seen CHAZ used so perhaps too soon to tell, but most mentions of CHAZ are in the interest of specifically disparaging the CHAD acronym, which is actually a bit derided by a subsection of Capitol Hill locals. Neonsigh (talk) 07:44, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I believe CHAD is a backronym in reference to the meme that is not widely or seriously adopted, also see Post-irony Faissaloo (talk) 20:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CHAZ or No cop co-op are the only name being used by folks on the ground. CHAZ seems to be in most use. Lennon (talk) 22:05, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Due to the commune not currently having a centralized leader or government, it would be difficult to pin down what flag is official and what isn't, in fact, it might be impossible.

Therefore, I propose that we just choose whatever we see circulating the most in the coming days, starting now.

The Guy With Crocs (talk) 04:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)The Guy With Crocs[reply]

• I can assure you that someone's randomly created flag from Reddit isn't the official flag of the C.H.A.Z. We should wait to see if the commune officially adopts a flag or a certain flag becomes associated with the commune before adding one to this page. -- Mt.FijiBoiz (talk 04:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• I feel like you misunderstood my point. The inherent decentralization of this communities internal structure means that it will probably be a while until ONE flag is agreed on, therefore we should instead add the one we see the MOST in order to increase this pages credibility and thoroughness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Guy With Crocs (talk • contribs) 04:24, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that'd be particularly helpful; anyone can put a flag on the net and I don't believe that the zone has an online presence of any sort... Luigi970p 💬Talk📜Contributions 04:43, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Adding a flag is pointless at the current time. There is no widely agreed upon flag and no organization that can state that such a flag exists. However there seems to be a consensus that the pink umbrella is the defining insignia of the zone. Rougetimelord (talk) 09:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Who just added the flag and coat of arms? I have never seen either in any of the Twitter threads I have been looking at for news on this event. I'm taking the liberty to remove the flag and coat of arms unless a citation can be found. (Update, cannot remove flag / coat of arms due to protection of the page) 108.49.158.36 (talk) 12:43, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For discussion only, here are the two flags that have been uploaded to Commons.

NedFausa (talk) 19:15, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Add the following to the bottom of Foundation or another appropriate section: Many members quickly adopted the use of a pink umbrella as a emblem. (https://twitter.com/lindseywasson/status/1270553746691375104). This edit has previously been undone as the source has been dismissed as just "some random Twitter user(s)", despite being from a professional photographer clearly displaying the factual nature of the assertion made, and removed after being labelled "vandalism". EdepolFox (talk) 04:44, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would be great to find a creative commons image of the umbrella emblem. Maybe tomorrow I'll go get one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Groceryheist (talk • contribs) 06:03, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:52, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Autonomous? sovereign? CHAZ needs a symbol of anarchy and decentralization. Why USD and not Bitcoin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PsychedelicSpartan117 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• They're not using Bitcoin, so the currency isn't listed as Bitcoin. If you think the page ought to read Bitcoin then I guess the first step would be to head up to Seattle, join the commune, and propose they switch over to BTC. 209.169.72.233 (talk) 06:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

They are using USD because that was the adjacent banks and businesses are using. Lennon (talk) 22:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Modify currency: USD for BTC, or at least add BTC.

Bitcoin is a censorship-resistant, apolitical, decentralized and sovereign form of ditital and absolutely scarce form of money PsychedelicSpartan117 (talk) 06:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: As above. Jack Frost (talk) 09:00, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I live in Seattle and I can tell you this page is incorrect on many points. I request sources to each piece of information. Double check your facts. 2600:100F:B059:85EF:DB3:A24E:3ACF:1B6A (talk) 06:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. If you have any specific changes or corrections, then please list them (with sources). Jack Frost (talk) 09:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy.

Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.

Comments posted here will not be considered by the closing administrator in deciding whether or not to delete Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. NedFausa (talk) 19:49, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of someone's opinion on the establishment of this anarchist community, it is fascinating to read about and the ability to read about it enables us to have a broader discussion about it. Deleting this page deprives us of the opportunity to have that discussion or even to privately research it.

Keep - Please, keep this entry intact. Dhc301 (talk) 06:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Seconded. Rougetimelord (talk) 09:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I vote in favor of deletion, so long as much of this information is incorporated into a separate page on Seattle's reaction to the George Floyd killing. The stuff about BLM taking over city hall would fit in there, too. As it stands, it's too specific, IMO. JakeDapper (talk) 09:15, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I third preserving this article, as it not only broadens discussion - but because deletion would be like deleting the main article for the Paris Commune because the article for the Franco-Prussian war has a section about it. PimpSugar (talk) 12:51, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I fourth keeping this, its pretty objective at the time being, and is a large enough event/locale to warrant a separate page The Guy With Crocs (talk) 13:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)Crocs[reply]

Keep This article is of something of notability that stands separate to the other issues raised or suggestions of what it 'should' be merged into. 121.210.33.50 (talk) 14:41, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep AllThatJazz2012 (talk) 16:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is a significant historical event that will be talked about for years to come regardless of how short-lived it may be. Jade Phoenix Pence (talk) 17:38, 10 June 2020 (UTC)Jade Phoenix Pence[reply]

Keep - This is notable enough to have gained traction, I guess LenaAvrelia (talk) 19:38, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This is an example of a micronation within the United States. This could be compared to the Conch Republic, and be added to the list of micronations. --Lipardi (talk) 20:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - this is a historic event and can be updated accordingly. Lennon (talk) 22:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Not a legitimate movement, no legitimate credible sources. No history in the making. --Skarz (talk) 23:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rebuttal - It is a legitimate movement. There have been several legitimate sources. The President has called it historical himself and is threating to "take care of the situation". TheMemeMonarch (talk) 04:03, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please be aware that Sputnik (news agency) is publishing articles related to the subject and that none of them are considered reliable sources by wikipedia, so can't be used for the purposes of supporting content in the article. Stuartyeates (talk) 10:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Same goes for RT. gobonobo ^{+ c} 11:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Canary has also been deemed to not be a RS --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:51, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

please replace main image (depicting CHAZ territory) with the included image. The updated image corresponds with the territory currently claimed to be within the autonomous zone.

additionally, replace reference of "six city blocks" with "approximately ten city blocks" to reflect territorial expansion. This expansion also resulted in an increase of area to 0.139 square kilometers, making the old figure of 0.036 square kilometers inaccurate.

Within the Territory section, replace the paragraph reading,

The Zone is concentrated around the East Precinct building. It stretches north to East Olive Street, east to 13th Avenue, south to East Pike, and west to Nagle Place. The southern half of Cal Anderson Park falls inside of the zone, while the northern half is contested.

with,

The Zone is centered around the East Precinct building. It stretches north to East Denny Way, east to 13th Avenue, south to East Pike, and west to Broadway. The entirety of Cal Anderson Park falls inside of the zone. ThatGamingSheep (talk) 11:52, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can we lower the protection from extended confirmed to semi protection? There were a lot of good faith editors (including me) who have now been blocked out of being able to quickly edit the page, which is especially important for current events. I understand there was a griefing problem, but all but the saddest of trolls should be deterred by the Semi Protection. The Guy With Crocs (talk) 14:19, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the updated map! Juno (talk) 19:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I assume the northern edge of the region is the park, and people across the street are not in the zone, and then the southern edge is different, all the shops on Pike on the south side of the street are within the zone because they are not accessible? The map should be clearer. 98.7.201.234 (talk) 21:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why are we relying on a Chinese source for so much of this article? Doesn't seem appropriate - surely there must be sources closer to Seattle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coretteket (talk • contribs) 15:30, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's because this is not a legitimate movement, it's largely seen as a joke, hence why no one is covering it. --Skarz (talk) 23:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Add

🤘֍Ȼ╠╣Ḻ֎🤘 (talk) 18:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Thanks for your contribution. NedFausa (talk) 18:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any evidence that trade in USD is taking place internally in CHAZ, as opposed to "imports" from the surrounding area? I'd prefer for the “Currency” field to be removed entirely if we don't have a source for that. Mouthpity (talk) 18:26, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From what I understand, services and goods are being provided for free (movie screenings, kebabs, water). But those who are providing those goods and services are using USD. Lennon (talk) 22:14, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I should have looked closer before my original comment. There are several businesses operating in side The Zone, such as The Unicorn, The Lost Lake Cafe & Lounge, Elysian Capitol Hill Brewery, and may others are using USD. Lennon (talk) 22:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I made an interactive map at Commons:Data:CapitolHillAutonomousZone.map, but I can't figure out how to put it in the article. Can someone help? --Numberguy6 (talk) 20:03, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

in the Territory section, please include information stating,

"Activists using social media have been instrumental in determining the extent of the zone. Orginial geographic information has been regularly released on Twitter." and please cite https://twitter.com/PartyPrat/status/1270650476040577025 as a source. (The tweet includes various maps, and the twitter user has been especially essential in mapmaking of the region.) ThatGamingSheep (talk) 21:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ThatGamingSheep: I have reached out to this user on Twitter, after being asked to by someone there who knows I edit Wikipedia far too much. They have provided me with further information. After a review of the sources, I was able to cite this information to a WP:RS. In future, it is typically not appropriate for you to just make maps based on Twitter posts which a reliable, independent source has not republished. Fortunately, in this case, Industrial Worker republished it, and although they got the author wrong, per WP:ABOUTSELF, we can use Chloe's admission. When you make a map in future, you should cite the data source in the article, if it's not some widely known fact like a nation's borders. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 22:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This claim of 300 members (or "residents", which is a misleading word as it would seem to imply that people who already lived in the area would automatically have anything to do with this) does not appear in the telegraph source, nor could I find it in any of the other sources. 72.196.31.11 (talk) 22:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When German unification happened in 1990 would you not consider the 16 million East Germans as German citizens? Lennon (talk) 22:37, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone article, not making jokes 72.196.31.11 (talk) 22:49, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly didn't mean to make a joke. I'm sorry it came off that way. Borders form. The people inside those borders are considered part of the population inside those borders. Lennon (talk) 23:06, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. If you look at the most recent posts on reddit, the "zone" is basically devoid of any activity except for local residents and businesses. --Skarz (talk) 23:25, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The mayor herself says there are 500 residences in the area.[1] 'Recent posts on reddit' are not reliable sources. gobonobo ^{+ c} 01:12, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok... All I'm saying is you should be leery of including people in a population / census just because they happen to live in an area. The CHAZ is an arbitrary zone with no foresight or planning. The majority of the 'population' just happen to be there already. --Skarz (talk) 03:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Howdy,

I participated on the "Delete Comment Page". This is local to me.  Curious I checked it out and I did take a photo.  I'm not sure this is where the final article will be, but the BLM shrine seemed like an important thing.  I'm not a great photographer, I leave it to the editors to decide what to do if anything.

Cheers! ( Logging in Helps for signing off :-) ). Jzesbaugh (talk) 00:39, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jzesbaugh: Thank you. I'd like to add this to the top of article. Can I ask you, where was this photo taken? Is this outside the abandoned precinct building? Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 00:44, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Psiĥedelisto: Yes, it is basically around the corner. One direction is the police station, around the corner is the shrine. It is very visible and people are gathered there. They cleared out a moment so I could take it. Jzesbaugh (talk) 00:48, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jzesbaugh: So, to confirm, the brick building is not the precinct, right? Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 00:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Psiĥedelisto: Confirmed. In the zoned off area but not the precinct itself. Jzesbaugh (talk) 00:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jzesbaugh:  Done—thank you! If I may be so bold, I have a request: if you make it back there, please photograph the vandalized sign of the Seattle Police Department East Precinct. I think it deserves a prominent place in the article, as it really is something like their declaration of independence. (OK, maybe that's a bit dramatic; definitely wouldn't write that in the article, haha.) Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 01:01, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Psiĥedelisto: Will do. Many people were taking photos of that. They should appear soon, I saw a good number of journalists and 'journalists'. This is what spoke to me the most. Jzesbaugh (talk) 01:04, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any evidence for the "ten city blocks" claim? The barricades seem to cover only one short segment of one street. The cited reference doesn't support the claim. -- Netwalker3 (talk) 00:57, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Netwalker3: I've seen a few different maps. The one in the article right now, you can simply count the blocks. KCPQ reports four blocks (see timecode 1:13): [2]. We may need to write between four and ten, but it's a rapidly developing situation. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 01:04, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The map from Twitter doesn't seem like a WP:RS. And between four and ten is a very wide range. -- Netwalker3 (talk) 01:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was republished by Industrial Worker, see a few sections above. A very wide range, yes, it's a rapidly developing situation. Google's revenue has also been between $0 and $162 billion. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 01:11, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Industrial Worker counts as a WP:RS. What do the media in Seattle say? -- Netwalker3 (talk) 01:18, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think they're a WP:BIASED RS. Heavy.com says six.[3] (So does RT, but they're unusable on Wikipedia.) Manhattan Institute for Policy Research corroborates.[4] Actually, I can see why. Most of the "blocks" in the map I counted are parks, or only half-blocks. I'd support changing the number to six, cited to Heavy and MIPR. If you agree, I'll make the change. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 01:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are things for which Industrial Worker is a reliable source (such as the current positions of the org that it's the mouth piece of), but the size of the Zone isn't one of them. Stuartyeates (talk) 02:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Psiĥedelisto: Sounds like a good idea. -- Netwalker3 (talk) 02:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is more commentary for editorial interest in general, I was there today. There is quite a bit of hype on what this is or is not. The barricades are pretty haphazard, and local people are walking their dogs through it. However 'inside' people are organized and doing lots of different things, in different areas that are zoned off. Some areas like the park have tents set up, again in different areas, a kind of sprawl. None of this is being well reported, yet, I'm sure someone will do a good article. So I think it's fair to say the size changes based on how many people are there and how many organized events are going on. There are people living there in tents a generous count would be 40(tents), in different distinct areas. The biggest thing that happened to me when I was there is one of the three free tent areas gave me a power-aid, and I donated them 20 dollars. Theses are pretty good approximations of "Free Stores" that we saw in the Abbey Hoffman era of the 60s. There is going to be tons of distortion on this till someone with some journalistic chops does something with it. I would expect a broader edit war to come on this page, especially with political season coming and this being panned as some kind of full on revolt(Again people are walking their dogs through this). It's more symbiosis. But again, not reported, just seeing the political landslide headed this way. Jzesbaugh (talk) 03:07, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

--2601:400:6:33E0:9961:CB47:6D55:14A6 (talk) 01:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)--2601:400:6:33E0:9961:CB47:6D55:14A6 (talk) 01:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

the fact that they covered up the death of a child should be enough. there is a dead kid there in one of dumpsters right now. are you going to do something about it? the cops ran away wtf? holly white knows who did what.
2601:400:6:33E0:9961:CB47:6D55:14A6 (talk) 01:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2601:400:6:33E0:9961:CB47:6D55:14A6: Request declined. Please re-open the request with the exact wording you wish to add, and, most importantly, reliable sources backing up your desired wording. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 01:41, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The protesters released a list of demands on Medium. While the demands are described in part in Daily Dot, Reason and other sources, only the original document has the full detailed list of their 30 demands. The protesters don't have a website and this is the only document they have produced that I know of. We don't generally allow Medium as a source, but per WP:PRIMARY, such a source can be used to "make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts". gobonobo ^{+ c} 03:01, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My main concern is that the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone has no centralized system of governance. So, how can we say that these demands represent the protesters? I think first we need to know who the leaders are, then prove those leaders sanctioned this. If there never will be leaders, then we can never say, "the demands are X"; at most, "many protesters demanded X." We also need some proof that many protesters support these demands to do that though, which can only come through secondary sources. Therefore, I agree with NedFausa, that Medium in this instance does satisfy neither WP:PRIMARY nor WP:ABOUTSELF. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 03:20, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, this seems to make it more a PR piece, especially where the size, population and governance are relativly unknown. This really should not be in the article until some clarification exists. The PR issue is this makes the article looks like a list of demands, rather than encyclopedic. This is especially true due to the volume of content the list of demands takes up on the article. Jzesbaugh (talk) 03:27, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Psiĥedelisto: Your argument seems to preclude the possibility of a leaderless organization. Or at least that such an organization has agency. I assure you that many organizations exist that do not have leaders but do have demands. Besides, we already know these are the demands of the protesters because reliable sources have said so. The only question is whether we can link to the full list of demands. Many articles on Wikipedia for organizations have links to their website, usually in external links, but also often when linking to their mission statements and the like. Again, WP:PRIMARY specifically allows the use of a link such as this one. gobonobo ^{+ c} 03:35, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gobonobo: No, in fact, we don't know that at all. Per WP:RSP, The Daily Dot is considered generally reliable for Internet culture. This is not internet culture. Reason also says, purporting to be a list demands, not "these are the demands". I disagree that the lone Daily Dot source is strong enough. If it is, and we add this back, then we need to clarify what we mean when we say there's no central authority. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 03:39, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How about Daily Hive? gobonobo ^{+ c} 03:42, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gobonobo: Good source for the six blocks, but it says written by medium user FreeCapitolHill, and does not address the issues I've mentioned. Your reversion was probably undue, but I won't revert you again as I removed it, though I encourage Jzesbaugh to do so. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 03:46, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Psiĥedelisto: Capitol Hill Seattle then? I'm fine with tweaking the wording in a way that qualifies the statement or somehow states with more precision who it comes from. Given the number of reliable sources now though, the section itself should be preserved. gobonobo ^{+ c} 03:51, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I actually lack the editorial authority to do that. But my point stands. I pointed out this danger in the deletion page. The issue is that it does not really seem to clearly represent the aims of potentially everyone involved. It moves it into the PR area that is going to potentially steer a political narrative about this that may not even exist. That is not what Wikipedia is for, though often attempts are made to use it this way.Jzesbaugh (talk) 04:05, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gobonobo:@Psiĥedelisto:Further the president just tweeted about it, and this page is a resource. It may not be wise to use this as a venue to list demands we do not know represent this group. Jzesbaugh (talk) 04:06, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gobonobo and Jzesbaugh: I've made another attempt at cleanup; hopefully this one satisfies all parties. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 04:15, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Psiĥedelisto: That satisfies my concerns. Jzesbaugh (talk) 04:19, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Radical Left Governor @JayInslee and the Mayor of Seattle are being taunted and played at a level that our great Country has never seen before. Take back your city NOW. If you don’t do it, I will. This is not a game. These ugly Anarchists must be stooped IMMEDIATELY. MOVE FAST!". It is quite likely that he referring to the zone.TheMemeMonarch (talk) 03:38, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TheMemeMonarch: Oh, I love it. No way is this article getting deleted now. I anticipate an imminent snow keep. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 03:40, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He made another tweet, "Domestic Terrorists have taken over Seattle, run by Radical Left Democrats, of course. LAW & ORDER!".TheMemeMonarch (talk) 03:51, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Today, President Donald Trump made two statements on his twitter account. "Radical Left Governor @JayInslee and the Mayor of Seattle are being taunted and played at a level that our great Country has never seen before. Take back your city NOW. If you don’t do it, I will. This is not a game. These ugly Anarchists must be stooped IMMEDIATELY. MOVE FAST!"^[1], read one, and "Domestic Terrorists have taken over Seattle, run by Radical Left Democrats, of course. LAW & ORDER!"^[2] read the other. I am requesting the addition of;

On June 10th, 2019, President [[Donald Trump]] claimed that "Domestic Terrorists have taken over Seattle"<Ref>https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270923257844301836</ref> and called upon Mayor Durkan to "Take back your city NOW." adding that "If you don’t do it, I will. This is not a game. These ugly Anarchists must be stooped IMMEDIATELY. MOVE FAST!"<ref>https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270914092295950337</ref>

EnviousDemon (talk) 04:39, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]