Wikipedia Help NA‑class Top‑importance

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This is currently a concept page for a possible layout to link to all the {{intro to}} pages from a unified starting point. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)^talk 10:24, 21 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A small template that summarises this page, {{intro to box}}, can be transcluded into other pages. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)^talk 03:58, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cool Alicia77671 (talk) 19:44, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The current order is:

• Navigation
• Policy
• Editing
• References
• Images
• Table
• Talk

There may be a better order to introduce people to things. Perhaps placing navigation later? Maybe guidelines and policies needs a less dry title?

Perhaps ending with pages on:

• Style (WP:MOS)
• Content (WP:MPOV, WP:V, WP:NOR)
• Community (WP:WPDIR, WP:TALK) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evolution and evolvability (talk • contribs)

I've put up a proposal at the Village Pump to replace the old WP:I and WP:T with the superior Help:Intro. Any opinions welcomed there. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)^talk 02:42, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please merge this article into Wikipedia:Introduction? It seems both articles give a brief introduction to newcomers. 2601:183:101:58D0:E8B2:80EC:4AE1:19AF (talk) 17:22, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Two things. One, that would be quite an undertaking and would probably need some sort of consensus (or more input than just an edit request). Second, edit requests are supposed to be specific. Without something specific (eg, change x to y), a request like this is unlikely to be handled. (see also). -- The Voidwalker ^Whispers 18:44, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

How can i create my link?
how can i write about myself in the wikipedia about my story my life my struggles ?
How can i display about my work and all?
Suffan (talk) 08:18, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Suffan: Although you cannot write your own autobiography as a Wikipedia page (Wikipedia:Autobiography), you can add some information to your userpage as you edit other articles (Wikipedia:User_pages). T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)^talk 03:22, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Proposal_to_streamline_the_welcome_template. Sdkb (talk) 23:50, 25 February 2020 (UTC)Template:Z48[reply]

I just looked over this tutorial, and made about 50 edits, most of a gnomish or update nature. There are all some larger tasks I didn't get to, though, which I'll list here:

• Navigation While there are buttons to move forward through the tutorial, it'd be nice to have a "previous" button for when I want to go back, and it'd definitely be nice to have a button to return to the main tutorial page without needing to go to the last page of each tutorial.
• Mobile friendliness There's some discussion at the pump about how to make this page more mobile-friendly.
• Too much detail on tables The tutorials here, especially for markup, seem to go into way too much detail on all the minutia of how to create and edit tables. This isn't necessary for new users to know, and I'd like to see some of it removed, keeping only the basics. Sdkb (talk) 09:53, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The navigational ability of the modules is lacking leaving readers stuck going back and forth....should add something like {{Introduction/navigation}} to the bottom of the pages so readers can navigate to items easily...sucks if you start the VE portion only to realizes you use WikiText...very hard to navigate to what you want ..click ..click ...click.--Moxy 🍁 15:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Moxy, I like the idea of having a navbox at the bottom, which is what it looks like you're approximating. We could even add the individual module pages to it. For buttons higher up, I tried adding a gray "Back to tutorials menu" button at the bottom of the left sidebar, and it's showing up at Template:Intro to, but not on any of the actual tutorial pages. Evolution and evolvability, any idea why that's happening?

By the way, I've also had added a back button for navigating between pages in a module.

Once implementing the gray "back to tutorial menu" button is done, I think the main remaining task will be switching the blue "back to the tutorial menu" button so that it instead always brings the editor directly to the next module, as it does at Help:Introduction to Wikipedia. Sdkb (talk) 22:51, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sdkb: Aha, the gray "back to tutorial menu" problem I can explain. The page you added it to (Template:Intro_to/tabs) is merely the example tabs for the {{Intro_to}} template. So the button actually needs to be included in the template itself. I've edited it into the sandbox version of that template and added a request for an admin to update the main template. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)^talk 09:51, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, got it; thanks! I'm going through to introduce parameters for the new blue button now; those should show up as soon as the edit request at Template:Intro to is handled. Sdkb (talk) 19:54, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

yup need that back button as temps dont work in mobile view.--Moxy 🍁 21:24, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Following up about the excessive detail for tables, I think that the code to make sortable tables doesn't need to be a whole page; that can just be a line in the editing tables page. And pretty much everything on the advanced formatting page can go, with the exception of hidden comments (which aren't table-related, and thus should probably go elsewhere). Do you all agree? If so, I'll go ahead and implement. Sdkb (talk) 23:30, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing no opposition, I'll go ahead and implement on this. Sdkb (talk) 19:48, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I couldn't find a better place to discuss hidden comments, so I decided they're something new editors don't really need to know; they'll figure them out soon enough through experience. The old pages can now be found at Help:Introduction to tables with Wiki Markup/Old sorting page and Help:Introduction to tables with Wiki Markup/Old advanced formatting page. The back button at the Wiki Markup summary page briefly goes to one of the pages while we wait for a technical move to be implemented; after that, all should be good. Sdkb (talk) 21:16, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK is someone actually testing what all the new button look like? Help:Introduction to referencing with Wiki Markup/5 why is there a duplication of buttons. Think to much to fast is happening. Stability is a point that needs to happen.--Moxy 🍁 00:44, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Moxy: I agree with the use of a navbox. I've added one to the base of the template for now (though of course it doesn't display on mobiles). I agree that it starts to get pretty cluttered with 4 buttons at the base of the final tab of a series, since currently there is:

• << Back to tutorials menu <- this one could be omitted when on the last tab of a series (should be easy enough to code)
• << Back
• Test what you've learned in the sandbox
• Back to the tutorials menu >>

I'll have a go as coding that this weekend in Template:Intro to/sandbox. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)^talk 01:31, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Moxy: I'm testing every change in the sandbox before I request it, so I'm pretty sure I'm not messing anything up. Regarding the duplication, that's happening because this change hasn't been implemented yet. Once it is, the blue button will be used for progressing to the next tutorial in the list, rather than going back to the main menu. (If you want to verify how it'll show up, replace {{Intro to}} with {{Intro to/sandbox}} in the edit window and then preview the page.) This will hopefully help a lot with reducing the drop-off rate, since it'll make it a lot more frictionless to go from one tutorial to the next. Regarding the sandbox button, that's something as I note below that we may want to remove as part of the {{Intro to}} framework, since now that we have actual navigation there, the sandbox link just adds clutter; it'd be better integrated above. But overall, yes, things are under control — apologies if all the template edit requests are seeming a bit overwhelming (I'll go request template editing credentials so I can make changes myself at some point, just haven't gotten around to it yet). Sdkb (talk) 04:40, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Moxy and Evolution and evolvability: Re sandbox link, I played around a bit, and here's what I came up with for code to move the sandbox link more into the body. How does that look? Sdkb (talk) 09:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hearing no objections, I just requested implementation of the sandbox link improvement. Sdkb (talk) 00:39, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The last module in the tutorial, the MoS, just kinda ends. I think it'd be nice if we added a page to say "congrats", show a nice graphic, tell them to go forth and WP:BEBOLD, describe next steps for getting deeper into WP, etc. Sdkb (talk) 19:59, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like the idea, and it fits with the quite casual tone of the series. One thing to think about is that people may not read them in order (or be sent to just the MS one specifically) so wording it in a way that makes sense even if they've not red the whole set. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)^talk 22:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should have the "test what you've learned in the sandbox" link go to the user's personal sandbox, which will be less cluttered than the main one. It would also be great if the sandbox link opened in a new tab, so that users weren't navigated away from the main tutorial (one of many things we can do to try to make completing the full tutorial as frictionless as possible), but I'm not sure how to do that technically (this advice is all I could find, and it doesn't seem to work). Of course, we could also stop having the sandbox link embedded into the Intro to navigational structure, which is starting to feel a bit odd. Sdkb (talk) 21:12, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Never link to a personal sandbox in a tutorial as IP editors have no sandbox.--Moxy 🍁 00:31, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, got it. I don't know too much about communal sandboxes, other than that they seem to be cleaned pretty frequently. If we start running into issues where too many editors are coming to a sandbox for it to work well, I'm sure we could write some code that'd link to a personal sandbox if the clicker has an account and a communal sandbox otherwise. Sdkb (talk) 04:44, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Help_talk:Introduction_to_images_with_VisualEditor/1#Differences_between_this_version_and_the_Wiki_Markup_version. Sdkb (talk) 14:06, 11 March 2020 (UTC)Template:Z48 Sdkb (talk) 14:06, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a way to view this information about images in a normal format. My IOS phone makes the text goes off the screen with no options to move the page left and right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:8D80:560:4EF3:C921:9E5D:A48D:23E3 (talk) 00:13, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Would someone with an iOS device be able to check this out to see if it's a more widespread issue? (And ideally share screenshots) The display has been fine for me on a standard Android device. I also know Moxy is encountering an issue where the buttons display very small on mobile, which again I haven't been able to replicate. Sdkb (talk) 07:29, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not that we will ever hear from the IP again....but at the bottom of every page you will see a link called "Desktop" this will change what you see and hopefully will be readable to you. Hopefully you have found a normal page to view in the meantime and did not just give up.....as I see no other edits.--Moxy 🍁 23:04, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is this information available in a readable format. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:8D80:546:8BDA:30FC:BC77:3E97:C6AA (talk) 11:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain what issue you are having? Sdkb (talk) 11:24, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WOW IP can back....very very rare....what your looking for is at Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia sorry this was not provided before...never seen an IP come back to talks like this before.--Moxy 🍁 17:13, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the IP is a fellow Canadian, Moxy. My understanding from the pump was that we had addressed all the major issues with mobile, so if they're still showing up on iPhones, it'd help if someone could provide iPhone screenshots. Sdkb (talk) 17:56, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yup a fellow Canadian from Quebec ....great to see a french-canadian interested here. As for IPHONE I dont have one so can't comment on what they are seeing....but Comparison of mobile operating systems mentions Safari has problems...perhaps download a version see if it's different.--Moxy 🍁 20:55, 25 March 2020 page is blank no writing or pictures

See Wikipedia_talk:Introduction#Proposal:_Redirect_this_page_and_WP:Tutorial_to_Help:Introduction for a relevant discussion. PamD 07:24, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Introduction button beneath the Wikipedia globe looks more like a page title than a functional link. It has the same hierarchical size as all the less important links to aspects of source editor and visual editor. Yet, if that Introductory link gets missed, we've simply failed to get our message across, and users will be lost.

It needs to be bigger, bolder and clearer. Nick Moyes (talk) 10:18, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]