Pharmacology Template‑class

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When I recently was checking the legal input like |legal_US=, I saw much input like |legal_US=not FDA approved. But I think this approval belongs in |licence_US=. (see Category:Drugs with non-standard legal status (3,214)).

But I think any FDA (non-)approval is a licence issue. Shall I correct these inputs? (some 100 drugboxes are affected). BTW, both parameter spellings |licence_US, license_US= are accepted. -DePiep (talk) 18:28, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Approved drug" clearly is about licence, not legality. I will change the infobox accordingly (prevent bad preformattings). And I will edit mispositionings. -DePiep (talk) 20:11, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Some pages are added to Category:Drugs with non-standard legal status (3,214) (was: 1525 P). -DePiep (talk) 20:31, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Sizeofint (talk) 04:24, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Currently, drugs that are not available are categorised in:Category:Experimental drugs (330) and Category:Abandoned drugs (1,012).

Wouldn't it be better to add that info to {{Infobox drug}} too? This would only apply for non-marketed pharmaceutical drugs. Recreational drugs and available, marketed drugs do not show a status. Parameter could be |status= (for 'drug lifecycle status'). -DePiep (talk) 18:42, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What about withdrawn drugs like Vioxx? Would that be a license issue or a lifecycle issue? Sizeofint (talk) 04:27, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Could be both or either? 'Lifecycle status' should clarify why you can not find it on the market. 'Licence' should describe (a) licence info when approved, or (b) when off-market is because of licence issue. Something like this? Like (except for the simple (a) licence link), use only to explain exceptional situation. Blank when normal. -DePiep (talk) 18:47, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. What happens with the licence (like FDA's) when a drug is withdrawn? Can it remain idle & still valid? -DePiep (talk) 18:52, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Evolving ideas:

• let's add |development_status=.

Usage: blank for all marketed (available) drugs. Add 'under development', 'withdrawn', etc. when not available. This irrespective of licence status (except for development_status: 'tests finished, waiting for licence'). The data can use a good source, and may be datum-based (as of ...; per ...).

Not yet solved: what about illegal/recreational drugs? Keep blank too? -DePiep (talk) 06:16, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The examples and perspective in this article deal primarily with a few countries and nations and do not represent a worldwide view of the subject:

| legal_AU     = S2
| legal_AU_comment = any text
| legal_CA     = 
| legal_DE     = 
| legal_UK     = gsl| legal_US     = Schedule II
| legal_US_comment = and OTC in Oregon
| legal_EU     =
| legal_UN     =
| legal_NZ     = 
| legal_status = Not marketed in [[Asia]]

sign: 05:23, 22 April 2017‎ David Hedlund

I must agree. Same can be said for pregnancy category and licence. The core issue is that legality (law) and licence (like by an 'FDA' authority) are regional only, i.e., by area of jurisdiction. There is no worldwide law or licence (I skip the WHO and UN drug approach for now). However. Omitting legal and licence information at all would be a severe flaw in the infobox (and drug article). Indications of legality (illegal drugs!) and licencing, even for just the US, is better than no info at all. Of course I am interested in other ideas on how to present this information. For example, we could strive to have the continents generally included. -DePiep (talk) 06:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) : |legal_UN= is international. Also |legal_status= is free text and can be used to enter the status for other countries. This is the English language Wikipedia and the list does include most of the major English language speaking countries. A case could be made to add India (IN), the Philippines (PH), and Nigeria (NG) that have large English speaking populations (see List of countries by English-speaking population}. Adding a long list of countries to any one navbox would be impractical and if done, this list would need to be collapsed so not to overwhelm the rest of the article. Boghog (talk) 06:27, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@DePiep, Looie496, Jytdog, and Doc James: Per this previous discussion, there is general consensus to add a pharmacological data section as implemented in this sandbox. Unless there is a compelling reason not to, I will add this to the production version. Boghog (talk) 21:21, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

To go in articles about hormones? Sure I guess. Needs to be referenced though. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:31, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anything at the link... Jytdog (talk) 21:48, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• See Template:Infobox drug/testcases11.

Note: since the earlier proposal was build (in /sandbox4), the live template has had big changes internally (compare ). -DePiep (talk) 00:40, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Y: now {{Infobox drug/sandbox}} has the proposed changes. (compare ). {{/sandbox4}} is historical now.

The proposal is

... to merge {{Infobox neurohormone}} (~10 P) into {{Infobox drug}}. As the Testcases show, this would add a section "Pharmacological data" with 8 new parameters.

• Comments by DePiep

I support the merge. I have some practical questions and suggestions, more about details.

1. Do not set he infobox width to 300px. This is unrelated to the proposal, and has problems not yet solved. Best to handle this in a separate proposal.
2. We should require using |type=hormone (or an other covering drugtype-id, 'neuro'?). Allows us to control or check the parameter usage (prevent inconsistent usage). And categorise in Category:Drugs by type.
3. Use original labels "Synthesizing enzyme" and "Metabolizing enzyme" (not Biosynthesis, Metabolism: these are less clear and aren't they grammatically incorrect?).
4. Use parameter names following their labeltext: (Note that current proposals |targets=, |sources= and |synth= are confusing with similar names already used)

| source_tissues =
| target_tissues = 
| receptors = 
| agonists = 
| antagonists = 
| precursor = 
| synthesizing_enzyme =
| metabolizing_enzyme =

-DePiep (talk) 00:40, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done in the sandbox:

Require |type=neuro, from list: vaccin/mab/combo/neuro/<blank>. Used parameternames as proposed here. Removed the 300px width setting.

Todo: check subtemplates; implement talk result. -DePiep (talk) 01:19, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

5. Question: what is a good headertext for this new block? I think "Pharmacology data" is a bit too unspecific (and doesn't it also cover other sections like pharmacokinetics?). In parallel situations, we have 'Vaccine', 'Combination drug', 'Monoclinal antibody'. I think 'Pharmacology' is not pointy enough. I saw:

neurotransmitters, neurohormones, neuromodulators. Also 'hormones'(?).

Anyone a suggestion that covers it nicely? (We could also use exactly those unfamiliar words, would be cumbersome for us editors though. And for readers). -DePiep (talk) 09:10, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Naturally occurring hormones are more accurately classified as biomolecules rather than drugs (although some hormone are also used as drugs). Hence I think it would be better to label this section as physiological data or more simply physiology (which in part is the study of how biomolecules carry out their action) rather than pharmacology (the study of drug action). Boghog (talk) 13:57, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Naming the section "physiology" sounds good. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:14, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK, made header "", in line with "Clinical data", "Pharmacological data", "Chemical and physical data". -DePiep (talk) 07:19, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

2: Neurotransmitters (act locally within synapses in the brain) are distinct from neurohormones (act at surrounding tissues within the brain) and hormones (act at a distance throughout the body). Hence to have only one type of parameter value (|type=neuro) is misleading and confusing. Hence we also need |type=hormone as an alias. Alternatively |type=endogenous would be a general term that would cover hormones, neurohormones, neuromodulators, neurotransmitters and would also distinguish it from xenobiotic drugs.

Thanks for clarifying. Question 2a: So this is drugtype |type=endogenous for all. We can decide: do not differentiate from other single-chemical drugs (do not use this setting, keep |type= blank), or make this a new drugtype, next to: single-chemical/mab/vaccine/combo(/endogenous)? These are mutually exclusive: the |type= can be and must be only one of these. The latter allows for easier maintenance checks: check specific data, tracking, contradicting parameters entered, etc. So: new drug type or just single-chemical? -DePiep (talk) 07:35, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am neutral as to whether to create a new drug type for "endogenous" drugs (neurotransmitters, neurohormones, or hormones). "Endogenous" drugs are analogous to single chemical compounds (they generally are not combinations). The ones that are combinations (e.g., androgens, estrogens, glucocorticoids) are represented by {{infobox drug class}}. So it would be acceptable to use |type=<blank> for simple "endogenous" drugs. The same infobox with added or deleted parameters would be used for drugs and for transmitters/hormones. For "endogenous" drugs, the "Clinical data" and "Legal status" headers should be turned off while the "Physiological data" header should be turned on. This could simply be handled by deleting all the parameters associated with "Clinical data" and "Legal status" and add parameters for "Physiological data". Alternatively this could be controlled by |type=<blank>/endogenous. The advantageous of this second approach is that if inappropriate "Clinical data" and "Legal status" were included in a "endogenous" drug infobox, they would not be display and this error could be flagged. Boghog (talk) 14:39, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Question 2b: So far, the subtype (neurotransmitter, neurohormones, neuromodulator, ...) is not stated in the infobox (but likely in the lede). Should we add new |subtype= for this, in top of this new data block? -DePiep (talk) 07:35, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

3: Biosynthesis, Metabolism are clear, concise, and grammatically correct. In some cases, these may refer to a biosynthetic or metabolic pathway rather than a single enzyme. Hence it would be better to use the more general phrases Biosynthesis and Metabolism. Finally Biosynthesis and Metabolism, because they are concise, are better for the displayed titles in the infobox and for consistency, the parameter should, if possible, have the same name as the title. Boghog (talk) 15:32, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sure parameter name will follow labeltext. -DePiep (talk) 07:59, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

By "grammatically (in)correct" I meant to say: bad reading. A label-data pair "ATC code J01XX08" actually is read to say: "The ATC code is J01XX08".

But when reading "The metabolism is oxytocinase", that is wrong. Metabolism is a process, oxytocinase is an enzyme. So it says: The m. process is this enzyme o.. It takes a few clicks and metal steps to understand/translate this into: "The enzyme oxytocinase has to do with the metabolism process". I find this too crippled reading, incorrect, and unclear. Then, once this is wrong, being more concise (=less labeltext) is not valid. Could you find a better descriptive labeltext for these two words? -DePiep (talk) 07:59, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Strictly speaking, an enzyme represents not only a protein, but also the reaction catalyzed by that protein (see Enzyme Commission number). Very different proteins can catalyze the identical reaction. Hence the more fundamental concept of an enzyme is the reaction that is catalyzed by that enzyme. Furthermore a chemical reaction is a process. Therefore enzymes can also represent processes. Repeating what I state above, there may be cases where we might want to specify the pathway and not just a single enzyme. We may also wish to state in what tissue the metabolism is occurring. Hence the term "metabolizing enzyme" is far too restrictive and therefore inappropriate. The current |metabolism= parameter is used in the same broad sense and no one else has complained about its name. Boghog (talk) 15:19, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New question, related: could we find better words for the other labeltexts? They are meaningless jargon words for the Reader (not for those who know of course, like scholars). Sure they are correct, but that does not say they are good in this situation. Anything better? -DePiep (talk) 07:59, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We have extensively discussed this already and I would specifically refer to Seppi's comments at the end of the previous discussion. While these words may be jargon, they certainly are not meaningless. Quite to the contrary, they are accurate and concise and each is wiki linked to a reasonably understandable explanation. This is exactly what wiki links are for. Summarizing Seppi's argument, the labels in this new "Physiological data" section are no more jargony than many of the other labels currently in the drug box. Boghog (talk) 15:31, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• OK. I will change the sandbox following the lines Boghog described here. Then go live. -DePiep (talk) 17:06, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Boghog, parameter name |metabolism= already in use for pharmacokinetic data. That label links to Drug metabolism. Effect: see Testcase. Alternative parameter name suggestion? (We could change the old one too). -DePiep (talk) 17:28, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Boghog |metabolism= is already in use. Could you give an alternative parameter name? I'm not familiar enough with the wording. -DePiep (talk) 11:10, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@DePiep: Thanks! And sorry for not responding sooner. Actually |metabolism= has identical meaning and usage in both sections. We obviously don't want to duplicate the display of metabolism, so would it be possible to display metabolism with the physiology data if and only if there are no other pharmacokinetic data displayed? Otherwise, display metabolism in the pharmacokinetic and not in the physiology section. Does that make sense? Boghog (talk) 11:30, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Implies that if both sections have data, it will be omitted from physiology section. (an other option: if a section has data, show it there. Could be duplication, but possibly OK for being in context twice). -DePiep (talk) 11:57, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See Testcases for various situations. -DePiep (talk) 13:57, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Y See above discussion, following line of reasoning by Boghog. See current /sandbox version, and testcases

• Added section "Physiological data" with parameters:

| source_tissues =
| target_tissues = 
| receptors = 
| agonists = 
| antagonists = 
| precursor = 
| biosynthesis =
| metabolism = <!-- ... already in use, so may change -->

• Not a separate |type= (drugtype). So treated as a 'single chemical component' (not combo, mab, vaccin). Also not distincted in Category:Drugs by type.
• The words neurotransmitter, neurohormones, neuromodulator, endogenous do not appear in the infobox. Of course, the lead can take care.
• For these endogenous drugs, there is a section check: when section "Physiological data" has any input, sections "clinical data" and "legal data" should be empty. The tracking category is: Category:Infobox drug articles with contradicting parameter input, sorted under 'Endogenous'.

-DePiep (talk) 20:22, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• |metabolism= used in two places: when other pharmacokinetic data is entered, |metabolism= will show in that section. If no other pharmacokinetic data is entered, it will show with physiological section. -DePiep (talk) 13:42, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Done -DePiep (talk) 14:11, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

{{Infobox neurotransmitter}} now can be merged (replace by {{Infobox drug}}, use applicable parameters). -DePiep (talk) 14:11, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

At this moment, these articles have the deprecated template: Serotonin, Dopamine, Acetylcholine, Norepinephrine, Glutamate (neurotransmitter), Octopamine (neurotransmitter), Urotensin II-related peptide. -DePiep (talk) 07:45, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Curious: we have used Oxytocin as example here, but it does not use merged {{Infobox neurotransmitter}}. Should or should it not use the new {{Infobox drug}}? Are there more such cases? -DePiep (talk) 08:17, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Again, thanks for implementing this! I just added Physiological data parameters to the infobox in Oxytocin. There are certainly more articles where this should be done as well as convert the deprecated template. I will try to do this when I have more time. One minor problem I noticed in Oxytocin. The pronunciation should come before the Physiological data section, not in the section. Otherwise it looks great. Boghog (talk) 10:01, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Issue. We have put Pronunciation in section 'Clinical data'. Section 'Clinical data' appears below the drugtype-specific sections like mab, combo, vaccine details.

Bug 1: header section 'Clinical data' does not appear while there is this input. I should make it show for pronunciation.

Contradiction: ... but showing the clinical header here (with pronunciation data below) would be 'conflicting input' as you pointed out above. Option: do show clinical header & pronunciation, do not treat pronunciation as conflicting. Other option: move pronunciation data to above all sections (right below images, no header).

We could move the new Physiological section to below Clinical section (sole effect: would put pronunciation more in top in this situation).

-DePiep (talk) 10:23, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Done/solved, see #Changes per 2017-05-19. Consider merge done closed. Remaining article edits todo. New issues in a new (sub)section please. -DePiep (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Replace {{Infobox neurotransmitter}} with {{Infobox drug}}. Adjust parameter names (Preview is your friend).

• Serotonin -- Done. -DePiep (talk) 21:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Dopamine -- Done. -DePiep (talk) 21:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Acetylcholine -- Done. -DePiep (talk) 21:16, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Norepinephrine -- Done. -DePiep (talk) 21:11, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Glutamate (neurotransmitter) -- Done -DePiep (talk) 20:58, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oxytocin -- Done
• Octopamine (neurotransmitter) -- Done
• Urotensin II-related peptide -- Done -DePiep (talk) 20:43, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

-DePiep (talk) 20:24, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Boghog: looks done, right? I unfollow. -DePiep (talk) 21:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Found: Category:Neurotransmitters (83), and this PETSCAN listing 68 candidate pages now having {{Chembox}} (like Amidorphin). -DePiep (talk) 08:19, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Preparing minor changes:

• For |type=combo, add |component5, class5= to cover Hyoscyamine/hexamethylenetetramine/phenyl salicylate/methylene blue/benzoic acid.
• |metabolism= can appear in both sections "Physiological data" (new; re hormones) and "Pharmacokinetic data". Changed: it will show in the section with context (=has other input). Changed: could be twice then, repeating, because of context present. When no context at all, will show as single data in Pharmacokinetic.
• See #To_go_live bug report: Pronunciation is in section "Clinical data". This section should be empty in case of physiological data (hormones etc). However, e.g. in Oxytocin, pronunciation may be validly entered. For this rare case, pronunciation will show, first textual data row, no header.
• Todo: adjust doc.

Y in sandbox. See testcases11. -DePiep (talk) 15:14, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Done -DePiep (talk) 15:38, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please correct the piping for SMILES. It's currently [[Simplified molecular input line entry specification|SMILES]], but should be [[Simplified molecular-input line-entry system|SMILES]]. Colonies Chris (talk) 21:54, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Colonies Chris (talk) 08:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Why doesn't show this? --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 07:30, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Fixed, now shows. Some 300+ articles affected. Probably a few months old. Thanks for the report. -DePiep (talk) 12:12, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I was reading the Evolocumab article and saw there's no way to put Amgen in the infobox. Should there be a manufacturer field added? Timtempleton (talk) 18:00, 8 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I see no reason. The infobox is not a factsheet or datasheet. It is to summarize the article into its main points. Not: repeat all. More so since the manufacturer(s!) are not a defining aspect of the drug. (If one want to pursue adding this, try to answer this: which other info should leave drugbox?). -DePiep (talk) 18:29, 8 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I would like to do some editing to the info box for medicines authorised in EU by EMA. I can add 'licence EU= brandname' and then the infobox links to the EMA search page. Is there any way I can edit this so that it searches for 'active substance' instead of 'name' in the EMA search? For example see the medicine Pregabalin, because the infobox searches 'name', the medicine Lyrica is missing from the search, if it searched for active substance all the pregabalin medicines would be captured. If there is a way to do this, please let me know Libby EMAcomm (talk) 13:53, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be a good idea to search the EMA page by INN. However, we can't easily change the link to the EMA search page from "searchType=name" to "searchType=inn" because that would break thousands of info boxes. Does EMA have a URL for including both trade names and INNs in the search? --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 15:56, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Let me get this clear.

Today, |licence_EU= requires a brand name, then links to the brand "search" page (thats the search-result page I assume). For Pregabalin, |licence_EU=Pregabalin → [2] (search for keyword by Name; 8 results).

Libby suggests to make that a search by 'active substance' not 'name'. That simply is a different option-button on the result page, as we see. I try for Pregabalin: [3]. (9 results) And indeed, this now shows 'Lyrica'.

Then Anypodeto suggests to search by INN not by brand name. Note that this is a different entrance: not the searchpage-option but input name. (no demo at hand). -DePiep (talk) 22:18, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Simple & straight, we can easily change:

1. The template links to the EMA search for 'active substance' not 'name' any more.

2. Use INN (not some brand name) to search EMA. We have the INN for almost all drug articles (because that is the article title, by MOS). So the template can inject the INN into the EMA page.

These changes can be made in the template, i.e., for all 7000 drug articles. Check questions:

Q1: Libby EMAcomm, is the 'active substance' listing wider than the 'name' result? In other words, does the list for 'active substance' show all results plus more wrt 'name'?

Q2: Is the INN equally or better valid than the brand name?

Q3: What if an INN is not in the EMA base? Other error situations?

Q4: what could go wrong if we search for INN by 'active substance'? (not today's 'brand name' for 'name'?)

-DePiep (talk) 22:36, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Detail: so we can always link to EMA, using the INN. But how to prevent linking when the stuff is unknown on the EMA site? eg heroin, INN Diamorphine, at EMA: nothing found. What to do? -DePiep (talk) 22:48, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, EMA search does not have the option to search both name and active substance, it is one or the other.

If the template was changed so that it links to the search for active substance instead of name, is it possible to fix all the links that will be broken (where brand name is currently written)?

Q1 For medicines where there are generic medicines as well as the originator, the active substance is wider because it captures all the medicines with the active substance, both originator (eg Lyrica) and all the generics (other pregabalin medicines).

Q2 I dont think one is better/more valid than the other, except I suppose that an INN will never change name, but a brand name is owned by a company and can be changed by them for marketing reasons etc

Q3 EMA has approved around 900 medicines. There are lots of medicines that are not approved by EMA (they are approved by individual EU countries), in these cases the INN wont be in the EMA database, eg paracetemol. On the wikipedia page for paracetemol, and other medicines like this that are not approved by EMA, there is no 'licence EU=' currently in the info box and it shouldn't be added.

Q4 Regarding other error situations, if you search for active substance in EMA you will also pick up any medicines which contain the active substance in a fixed-dose combination, eg if you search for tenofovir disoproxil, in addition to picking up medicines with this active substance alone, you also pick up medicines which contain this active substance in combination with other active substance such as emtricitabine...but I dont really think this is an error, in a way it is informative. Maybe another error could arise because the INN and the active substance are not always exactly the same (the INN doesnt have the salt in the name but the active substance does), but I dont think this will be a problem, I think the search will work fine with the INN.

It is possible to download all the active substances in the EMA database from the EMA website, I might be able to get a list of the INNs if this would help.Libby EMAcomm (talk) 14:12, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks, clear description. Easiest and most complete action would be: when |licence_EU= has input, then link the INN to the EMA 'active substance' page.

That input today is the brand name, but we'll use it only as meaning "has an EMA entrance" (that is: as a 'yes' switch). The brand name itself is unused.

All other fringe issues we can take care of later.

Today, some 113 articles have this |licence_EU=brandname input (I can list them if wished). So it would be good to have all 900 doing so. For that we could use the EMA list you mention. However, best is to have that list into Wikidata right away (our central facts database). Then our articles can read there automatically. I'll ask a bot handler to take a look at this (he or she will then contact about this). -DePiep (talk) 15:11, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Y Prepared in sandbox. See /testcases. -DePiep (talk) 16:54, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification: When I said "INN" I meant setting "searchType=inn" (as in the second of your search links, DePiep), which corresponds to the option "Active substance or common name" in the search form. So no, I wasn't suggesting something different from Libby. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 17:35, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Got that, and is how it turned out. Search term = INN, search option = active substance. (Not used: brand name, search by brand name). -DePiep (talk) 17:52, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

DePiep could I please see the list of 113 articles, I can have a look over it to see if anything might be problematic, thanks Libby EMAcomm (talk) 20:54, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[4]. DePiep (talk) 21:32, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've bit boldly made the change. You can check the list more directly (open article, then click this new EMA link). -DePiep (talk) 08:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. So |licence_EU=any text will give the link to EMA active substance page. (todo: read complete EMA list of 900 active substances into Wikidata, then automate this link-showing. This would make manual article editing unnecessary). -DePiep (talk) 08:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC) (fixed, should work by now after page purge. -DePiep (talk) 09:07, 19 June 2017 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks this is really great, the searches are much better than when they were just restricted to one brandname medicine. I see few that have still not updated, but I guess they will soon. Would you consider replacing the text 'by active substance' with the actual INN for each medicine? In any case, looking through the list, I think it works fine and cant see any errors so far.Libby EMAcomm (talk) 21:42, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, good plan. But... it now says "by INN" (I choose to do so). My point is: technically you are right, but for our Reader we should be more clear and verbose. Like? -DePiep (talk) 22:15, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes! Many thanks Libby EMAcomm (talk) 06:54, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Above, Libby EMAcomm notes that they can provide the complete list of medicines (ca. 900) that appear in this licence database. First option should be to enter this in Wikidata as an external identifier for the medicine.

This could be done through d:Wikidata:Bot requests, but I'm not sure if the data model is complete for medicine (is there an "EMA identifier" for INNs?).

Then, I see that for example d:Pregabalin already has the reverse list: "Pregabalin is active substance in [eight names]". (eight, not nine?). The list is sourced from EMA. Question is: can this list be used to trigger the EMA link? Or would that introoduce incorrect lgic in situations? -DePiep (talk) 09:19, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have put the list of INNs (with duplicates removed) here for now: User:Libby EMAcomm/INNs Libby EMAcomm (talk) 14:06, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Any one of us can make a botrequest for edits, either here on at wikidata. Don't know when I have time to do so. -DePiep (talk) 08:11, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Change

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-->{{#if:{{{legal_DE|}}}{{{legal_DE_comment|}}} |
* <small>{{abbr|DE|Germany}}</small>: {{#switch:{{lc:{{{legal_DE|}}}}}
 | anlage i
 = [[Drugs controlled by the German Betäubungsmittelgesetz#Anlage I|Anlage I]] (Controlled)
 | anlage ii
 = [[Drugs controlled by the German Betäubungsmittelgesetz#Anlage II|Anlage II]] (Prohibited)
 | anlage iii |rx-only |rx only |rx |℞ |℞-only |℞ only
 = [[Drugs controlled by the German Betäubungsmittelgesetz#Anlage III|Anlage III]] (Prescription only)
 | #default = {{{legal_DE|}}}{{main other |[[Category:Drugs with non-standard legal status|D]]}}
 }} {{{legal_DE_comment|}}}
}}

to

Note: by now, the /sandbox code is defining. See also section #Demo below. DePiep (talk) 10:25, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

<!--
 DE ----- DE ----- DE ----- DE ----- DE ----- DE ----- DE ----- DE -----
-->{{#if:{{{legal_DE|}}}{{{legal_DE_comment|}}} |
* <small>{{abbr|DE|Germany}}</small>: {{#switch:{{lc:{{{legal_DE|}}}}}
 | anlage i
 = [[Anlage I]] (Non-tradable)
 | anlage ii
 = [[Anlage II]] (Tradable, but not prescriptible)
 | anlage iii 
 = [[Anlage III]] (Prescriptible)
 | anlage 1 | anlage 2|amvv|§ 1 mpav|§1 mpav|§ 1|§1|§ 48 amg|§48 amg|§48 |verschreibungspflichtig|rezeptpflichtig|rx-only |rx only |rx |℞ |℞-only |℞ only
 = § 48 AMG/§ 1 MPAV (Prescription only)
 | apothekenpflichtig|§ 2 mpav|§2 mpav|§ 2|§2|§ 43 amg|§43 amg|§ 43|§43|§ 46 amg|§46 amg|§ 46|§46|anlage 1b|anlage 3|anlage 4
 = § 43, 46 AMG/§ 2 MPAV (Pharmacy only)
 | nicht apothekenpflichtig|freiverkäuflich|§ 44 amg|§44 amg|§ 44|§44|§ 45 amg|§45 amg|§ 45|§45|anlage 1a|anlage 1c|anlage 1d|anlage 1e|anlage 2a|anlage 2b|anlage 2c
 = § 44, 45 AMG (General sales list)
 | #default = {{{legal_DE|}}}{{main other |[[Category:Drugs with non-standard legal status|D]]}}
 }} {{{legal_DE_comment|}}}
}}

Sandbox code is the defining proposal. Compare live version and sandbox

See also Template:Infobox drug/testcases3.

Input is not case-sensistive (A=a), and spaces are ignored (§ 2=§2).

|legal_DE
= Anlage I
= Anlage II
= Anlage III
= Verschreibungspflichtig | Rezeptpflichtig | Anlage 1 | Anlage 2 | AMVV | § 1 MPAV | §1 | 48 | § 48 AMG | §48 | Rx-only | Rx only | Rx | ℞ | ℞-only | ℞ only
= Apothekenpflichtig | Anlage 1b | Anlage 3 | Anlage 4 | § 2 MPAV | § 2 | 43 | § 43 AMG | §43 | 46 | § 46 AMG | § 46
= Nicht Apothekenpflichtig | Freiverkäuflich | Anlage 1a | Anlage 1c | Anlage 1d | Anlage 1e | Anlage 2a | Anlage 2b | Anlage 2c| 44 | § 44 AMG | § 44 | 45 | § 45 AMG | § 45 
= Neuer psychoaktiver Stoff | Anlage | NpSG 
| Kategorie 1 = GUG
| Kategorie 2 = GUG
| Kategorie 3 = GUG

Why?

1. Anlage I, Anlage II and Anlage III are all controlled, so it's wrong to call only Anlage I controlled.
2. Anlage II is not prohibited (not totally, at least); in fact, that would have been a better description for Anlage I.
3. Anlage III is not prescription only. It's prescriptible only under special conditions with special prescription forms (de:Betäubungsmittelrezept).
4. Anlage III is not the same as rx-only. It is part of the BTMG law, which regulates psychoactive substances.
5. rx-only, in contrast, is regulated by § 48 AMG in conjunction with Anlage 1 and Anlage 2 AMVV (not to be confused with Anlage I and Anlage II BTMG).
6. Some drugs are available without prescription, but only in pharmacies, § 43 and § 46 AMG, de:Apothekenpflicht in conjunction with Anlage 1b, Anlage 3, Anlage 4 AMVerkRV
7. Some drugs can be sold outside of pharmacies, § 44, 45 AMG ("Nicht apothekenpflichtig", "freiverkäuflich", General sales list) in conjunction with Anlage 1a, Anlage 1c, Anlage 1d, Anlage 1e, Anlage 2a, Anlage 2b, Anlage 2c AMVerkRV
8. Some medical products which are not drugs can be prescription only (§ 1 MPAV) or pharmacy only (§ 2 MPAV)

rtc (talk) 20:41, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest that the three new §-classes are wikilinked too (enwiki). Also, the wordings 'non-tradable' and 'not prescriptable' are unclear to me, still a bit of code in there? -DePiep (talk) 22:21, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the advantage in linking to a redirect Anlage I.

I have the impression (up for correction) that the BTMG is about legal/illegal aspects, while the added AMG etc. is licence-related, and so should be elsewhere. I'm trying to flesh this out, to keep the list comprehensible. -DePiep (talk) 22:32, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

non-tradable means that the substance may not be traded at all. Tradable, but not prescriptible means the substance may be traded under some circumstances, but it may not be prescripted for medical purposes. There may be non-medical uses for those substances.

The BTMG is about legal/illegal aspects, but only for psychoactive drugs! The AMG, in the paragraphs cited, is about legal/illegal aspects for all other substances. "Inhaltlich steht es nah (supplementär) zum Betäubungsmittelgesetz und dem Neue-psychoaktive-Stoffe-Gesetz." (de:Arzneimittelgesetz (Deutschland) – "it is close (supplementary) to the BTMG and the law about new psychoactive substances") It is licence-related in part, but only in § 21–§ 39d.

Now that we mention the law about new psychoactive drugs ([5], including Anlage), we should also add this one. It is for substances not included explicitly in the BTMG because there can be many variants of the chemical structure with only certain elements being fixed ("research chemical"). The BTMG lists only fully specified structures; the NpSG lists entire groups by specifying the fixed element, so if a new substance is discovered which contains that element, it is also automatically controlled by that law. The problem was that illegal drug labs often found slight variations of the substances controlled under BTMG which were then legal because not covered by its explicit list of fully specified substances.

 | anlage | npsg | neuer psychoaktiver stoff
 = NpSG (Industrial and scientific use only)

rtc (talk) 06:41, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Set |answered=pause pending this discussion: no use to attract T-editors for now. Does not prejudice the outcome. -DePiep (talk) 08:50, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• I've put the code into the {{Infobox drug/legal status/sandbox}}, keep that as defining (and tested). -DePiep (talk) 10:25, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Notes:

Need blue links for Arzneimittelgesetz (AMG), Medizinprodukte-Abgabeverordnung (MPAV), Neue-psychoaktive-Stoffe-Gesetz (NpSG). Preferably with internally an anchor to the right §-paragraph. Not for Arzneimittelverschreibungsverordnung - (AMVV), which does not show.

Added input options 43, 44, 45, 46, 48 (plain numbers) being obvious. Not for 1 and 2.

Are all those input options needed & useful? For example, "§" is not on a regular English keyboard, and which identifiers are actually used in German sources? Is it a good idea to add "Anlage 1" right next to "Anlage I"? Sure even experienced editors find this confusing. Remember we're supposed to list all of them in the documentation.

Isn't there a separate need for "Anlage I and III" (e.g. cannabis)? -DePiep (talk) 11:47, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Should we add option "Not listed" (uncontrolled)?

FYI, this and this for legal_DE give a nice overview of usage. -DePiep (talk) 13:18, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if all those input options are utterly needed, but they don't hurt I guess. If you think it's too much, remove what you think should go.

I changed "Prescriptible" into "Psychotopic prescription form" to emphasize the main difference to rx-only.

I agree that it is confusing to have both Anlage 1 and Anlage I, but that's how they are called in the respective laws. I think it is important to have both in the template, otherwise someone who sees Anlage 1 in some source may be be confused if the template doesn't know about it and may thus be tempted to think it needs to be changed to Anlage I because that what's offered. Of course the documentation needs to stress the fact that the two are different. It also allows specifying exactly whether the drug is listed in Anlage 1 or Anlage 2, instead of the paragraph from the law.

[6] shows that Rx-only is used only once so far, and in that place the specification is actually correct, Trofosfamide is on Anlage 1 (search for the German name, Trofosfamid); not on Anlage III as the template currently claims.

I don't think we need "Anlage I and III". This is a special case that occurs only once; it can be manually specified with a custom legal_DE value. Much more common is that a drug on Anlage III is Rx-only for doses below a certain threshold (see Triazolam as an example which I already fixed); this is particularly true for some benzodiazepines and Zolpidem. However, the exact threshold varies from drug to drug so it's probably not possible to take this into account in the template. --rtc (talk) 19:01, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

About saying "§ 48 AMG/§ 1 MPAV" in the infobox. Really, even if we do link the abbreviations, it is code. What does the slash mean? 'and'? 'or'? Some other Venn thing? We do need a clarification (some few words in the infobox). -DePiep (talk) 20:59, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please help. Why do = Apothekenpflichtig | Anlage 1b | Anlage 3 | Anlage 4 | § 2 MPAV | §2 | 43 | §43AMG | §43 | 46 | §46AMG | §46 all mean the same? Are these laws overlapping? Is MPAV and AMG the same, sometimes? Is there a dependency? I don't get it. -DePiep (talk) 21:34, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

§ 48 AMG and § 1 MPAV are both about prescription only restrictions, but they are not the same: the former is about drugs, and the latter about medical products ("de:Medizinprodukt": "Medizinprodukt bezeichnet einen Gegenstand oder einen Stoff, der zu medizinisch therapeutischen oder diagnostischen Zwecken für Menschen verwendet wird, wobei die bestimmungsgemäße Hauptwirkung im Unterschied zu Arzneimitteln primär nicht pharmakologisch, metabolisch oder immunologisch, sondern meist physikalisch oder physikochemisch erfolgt" -- A medical product is an object or a substance that is used for therapeutical or diagnostic purposes on humans, where, in contrast to drugs, the main mode of action of its designated use is primarily not pharmacological, metabolic or immunological, but physical or physico-chemical.) However, since the box is in principle about drugs, I think we can remove those two MPAV references.

The laws are not overlapping. §44 is about the basic general sales list. §45 says that additional substances may be put on the general sales list via executive order. Anlage 1a, Anlage 1c, Anlage 1d, Anlage 1e, Anlage 2a, Anlage 2b, Anlage 2c are the lists that form the core of this executive order. §43 is about pharmacy only drugs. §46 says that drugs from the basic general sales list in §44, perhaps in certain dosages or if sold for certain purposes, may be declared as pharmacy only via executive order. Anlage 1b, Anlage 3 and Anlage 4 are the lists that form the core of this executive order. § 48 is about rx-only drugs. It says that the specific substances are to be listed via executive order. Anlage 1 and Anlage 2 are the lists that form the core of this executive order. Hope this explains the dependencies among those laws and Anlage lists. --rtc (talk) 20:20, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In {{Infobox drug}}, the English word 'drug' can mean medicine and recreational drug. The infobox is used for both (here at enwiki). In this German legal status topic, I think mention both AMG and MPAV is fine enough (purpose is its legal status). Splitting the option (that is, allow input being AMG or MPAV or AMG & MPAV would be too detailed). So to me the result showing it OK this way. (but I do want links to articles; working on that). -DePiep (talk) 08:18, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Created List of German drug laws (a stub), to make blue links. Maybe the two articles re BtMG better be merged some day. -DePiep (talk) 08:43, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the MPAV is neither about medicine nor about recreational drugs (categories which are overlapping, btw); it is about apparatuses and substances that achieve some medical effects physically or physico-chemically. An example would be an disinfectant for medical apparatuses.

Added the GÜG which covers substances that are not drugs, but can be used to synthesize drugs.

Also further clarified some of the explanations. --rtc (talk) 10:35, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• One thing I'd like. The short clarifications could be more to the point. Remember that the article only has one, so can not learn from the other DE options (as our #Demo has). For example, all: 1. should be a complete answer, for example to the "is:" question (words like 'require' can not be omitted); 2. should be crisply short; 3. should not be too detailed (e.g. for Anlage I, I think 'trading is llegal' is more to the point than 'sientific exceptions only'. BTW, also nicely points to the German subtlety possession-is-ok versus not-trading-allowed). -DePiep (talk) 11:00, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I shortened some descriptions slightly. --rtc (talk) 12:36, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looks better to me, we cannot avoid somewhat longer descriptions I guess. OTOH, I don't think these secondary texts (like 'prescription drug') should be linked, it's not a defining property (as the legal classification itself is). Also, may cause overlinking when multiple countries have say 'prescription drug'. -DePiep (talk) 15:50, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I removed those links again. --rtc (talk) 17:43, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• If you think the /sandbox is stable (no more changes foreseen), we can put it live. The new List can keep evolving. If there are lists of drugs, we could add the actual input to articles? -DePiep (talk) 21:56, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  Sure, go ahead. --rtc (talk) 16:55, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]