Removed possible copyright infringement. Text that was previously posted here is the same as text from this webpage:

http://www.therightroadtopeace.com/eng/defaulteng.html

This page is now listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/copyvio. To the poster: If there was permission to use this material under terms of our license or if you are the copyright holder of the externally linked text, then please indicate so on this page's talk page (to access the talk page, click on Discuss this page in the sidebar). If there was no permission to use this text then please either replace this message with at least a good stub and an external link or leave this page to be deleted. (NOTE: unless a stub replaces this text, deletion will occur about one week from the time this page title was placed on the Votes for deletion page).

It also should be noted that the posting of copyrighted material that does not have the express permission from the copyright holder is possibly in violation of applicable law and of our policy. Those with a history of violations may be temporarily suspended from editing pages. If this is in fact an infringement of copyright, we still welcome any original contributions by you.

Thanks, snoyes 07:21, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Ok, then I remove the copyrighted material. Der Eberswalder 07:33, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

• Elon Peace Plan. The article is nothing more than an advertisement for a program of ethnic cleansing by someone at the far right of Israeli politics. It used to be a modest and reasonably nonpartisan report on this (quite unimportant) "plan", but a fanatic has taken it over and deleted everything that is not straight out of the plan's propaganda blurb. I tried to prevent this, to no avail. We should not allow Wikipedia to be used for political activism in such a blatant fashion. --Zero 04:51, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Deletion is not the solution to an edit war. Would some sysop please revert and protect the page while this is sorted out? Tualha 05:08, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Keep. Some NPOV editing would be good. Especially about "Population transfer was used successfully between the Greeks and the Turks in Thrace". It should be changed to something like "according to...". Optim 06:11, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • That's some pretty crazy shit. It's basically implying that the Armenian genocide, Pontian genocide, and related "population transfers" by the Turks were something that should be emulated. Wow. --Delirium 07:19, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
  • Keep, put into NPOV and protect once its properly edited. PMC 07:43, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Keep. The page describes a serious attempt to solve the core issues of the conflict. NPOV editting should be performed as needed. Please note the current form of the page, with exerpts from the plan document, was done in response to Zero0000 claim that the page did not reflect the content of the plan. OneVoice 11:50, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • See what I mean? OneVoice is editing this page so as to promote this "plan". He admits it! Can someone please explain to him what Wikipedia is about? --Zero 12:01, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Keep, move to pages needing attention. -- Finlay McWalter 12:11, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
  • Keep and fix. --Raul654 04:09, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

This page should be reverted to the last edit by OneVoice. That edit contains no editorial material. Rather the last edit by OneVoice matches the format and NPOV nature of The People's Voice peace plan page. That page indiates the source/founder of the plan, provides the principles of the plan, ands contain a link to the full text where readers can obtain more information and form their own views of the merits and practicality of the plan. The external links section contain links to analyses of the plan. The Geneva Accord page exhibits characteristics similar to those of The People's Voice, similar to the Road Map (which also includes some history sections, perhaps due the Road Map being the currently operative peace process with the greatest amount of international sponsorship) and proposed for Elon Peace Plan. The current page is POV. OneVoice 20:17, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Could you explain what you mean by "editorial material"? I'm afraid I don't understand how exactly this page is POV. —MIRV (talk) 00:54, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Most importantly, the Elon Peace Plan is designed to address what it sees as the fundamental causes of the current conflict:

1. The Palestinian demand for the right of return of refugees to areas within the State of Israel.
2. The rehabilitation of Palestinian refugees.
3. The status of Jerusalem.
4. The nature of the Palestinian state and its borders.

The page as it currently exists, ignores this.

Nearly all other plans are incremental ala the Road Map. Incrementalism has resulted in current situation. Since the Oslo Accords, the situation has not improved for Palestinian living in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip or the refugee camps of several Arab countries.

The current page states implies that all the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip will be forced out of those areas. This is not what the plan says. The plan says: "In the framework of the eradication of terror, the terrorist heads and inciters will be deported from Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The dismantling of the refugee camps, part of the rehabilitation process, will reduce the Arab population in these areas and lessen the poverty and density in the Palestinian Arab towns. The Arab population that will continue to reside within the new areas of the State of Israel, will benefit from the civil rights conferred by Israel, but its citizenship will be Palestinian, and its political rights will be actualized in Amman." Regarding this dismantling of the refugee camps it says: "The dismantling of the camps - combined with the establishment of a mechanism to rehabilitate the refugees - will strike a mortal blow to the terror infrastructure."

All Palestinians in Jenin, Nablus, Hebron, Jerusalem, etc are to remain in their homes. Only the Palestinians in the refugee camps will move to Jordan. Once again, they will receive Jordanian citizenship (unilateraly removed by Jordan on 31st July 1988 ) and a Marshall Plan that will replace the squalor and humiliation that they have suffered for the last 50 years. The plan further says "The relocation and rehabilitation of the Palestinian refugees in Arab lands will complete the population exchange process begun in the 1940s....The resettlement of these refugees and their descendants will complete a historic circle of population exchange. This will result in the emergence of countries where the majority of their population shares a common nationality and culture." This is better than the treatment that they have received to date in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt (which used to claim Gaza), Jordan, etc.

No other plan tries to address the issue of what to do with the people that will remain in refugee camps. The host countries have not accepted them. The host countries have given no indication that they will ever accept them. It appears to be unrealistic given the statements of Israeli politicians to expect that the refugees will enter Israel, the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.

The current page claims "The primary motivation for the plan is the demographic trend that will make Jews a minority in the area west of the Jordan River occupied by Israel before the end of the first decade of the 21st century." This is not borne out be reading the plan or its commentary on the web site. It may be true, but it is not to be found in the text.

It currently appears that Israel will implement a uni-lateral separation which will leave the refugees in the camps, the remains Palestinians without a state, without hope, and will the opportunity to improve their situation. Once the fence goes up, the Palestinians will be locked out of the place that they most often turn to for jobs and health care (among other services).

Please read the plan and compare it with the wikipedia page. OneVoice 02:02, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

No time for a full read-through, but there was one point that jumped out during a quick skim:

The plan does indeed state, as one of the reasons that a Palestinian state should not exist in the West Bank and Gaza, that the Palestinians there "represent a constant demographic danger to the very existence of Israel as a Jewish state", so. . . Did you miss that part? At most, one can disagree with the characterization of the demographic factors as the primary motivation, but it is one of the reasons for the plan. More later. —MIRV (talk) 02:20, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Yes I did miss that in going thru the plan now and writing the above, thank you for pointing it out. I will strive not to make that error or similar errors in the future. Please look at the fundamentals it tries to address and consider how else these might be addressed and which of the plans out there addresses them. OneVoice 02:25, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

OneVoice, a couple of comments. You wrote:

The current page states implies that all the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip will be forced out of those areas.

but the article simply states:

the now stateless Palestinians will become citizens of Jordan.

and quotes the plan itself which says:

"...the international community will allocate resources for the completion of the exchange of populations that began in 1948"

I don't see this implied here unless of course "exchange of populations" implies what all, in which case the plan itself misrepresents its own aims, which would be highly peculiar indeed.

You wrote:

Most importantly, the Elon Peace Plan is designed to address what it sees as the fundamental causes of the current conflict:

The page as it currently exists, ignores this.

The fundamental causes, particularly the refugee problem, are well covered in Arab-Israeli conflict and its offspring. They don't need to be rehashed here. All we need is a succint review of Elon's proposal, which, IMO, is what we have.

Regarding this matter, I have removed the principles of The People's Voice to match. We should list the principles that each plan states it is based upon, but failing to do that we should not give preferential treatment to any plan. OneVoice 13:44, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

One last point. You quoted the plan above:

The Arab population that will continue to reside within the new areas of the State of Israel, will benefit from the civil rights conferred by Israel, but its citizenship will be Palestinian, and its political rights will be actualized in Amman.

I find this a bizarre contradiction. Isn't an important civil right be able to vote for one's government? How can they vote if they are not citizens? This is not usually what we consider a democracy. This is why Americans got rid of the British. Taxes without representation. Remember the Boston Tea Party?. -- Viajero 10:37, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It is not "a civil right to vote for one's government", the government that enforces the laws under which one lives. One may choose to live in a country where one is not a citizen. This is not uncommon, indeed it is the most common way in which people become citizens of the United States. They move to the country, are subject to the laws of the United States as excerised by hte government of the United States. The immigrants are without the right to vote. Should they become citizens of the United States, they receive the right to vote.

Voting is a right limited to the citizenry, just as certain obligations are limited to the citizenry, such as conscription for military service. Conscription is non-voluntary, non-citizens may volunteer. A democracy made up of its citizens. The Americans came to view themselves as forming a distinct entity from Great Britain. Once that happened separation was inevitable be it through revolution or the Canadian method. OneVoice 13:44, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

An anon changed the following text:

this plan is considered irrelevant to the point of ridicule by the vast majority of Israelis and all Palestinians

I reverted his change. The fact that the article is using strong words does not make it POV. In fact, for something the vast majority of Israeli regard as a bad joke, the description in the article is accurate, and a weaker description would be POV. Gadykozma 12:53, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)