Philosophy B‑class

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After consulting some books, I think Wagner did a fair job assisting in the clarification, and since the architecture bit edited in by Galemp, in the near future maybe we have some more - encyclopedic - sources we can quote from? Britannica was no big help, doesnt have a single entry for it, it's m-w.com component gives a (too) short definition, but it keeps mentioning it. Proposals for something else?--Flammingo^Hey 13:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This passage does not add new information, is there a reason to keep it anyway? The term is actually used as early as 1916 in Randolph Bourne's "Trans-NationalAmerica" in relation to advances in a cultural context --Flammingo^Hey 22:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have several serious problems with the section titled "Notable philosophical and literary contributors," mostly the "literary" part. I'm reluctant to make the actual changes because if you give proper room to literary contributors the section would be gigantic and that's supposedly being taken care of by the "postmodern literature" page (though I've complained on that talk page about how inadequate it is). One problem I have is the mention of Dadaism without the mention of Surrealism. Dadaism was a brief movement compared to Surrealism; though both highly influential movements, Surrealism lasted for much of the early part of the 20th century and I'd say it had a more significant influence. Just look at how often an artist from each movement is mentioned by a "postmodern" artist or philospher. How often does Foucault or Derrida reference Rene Magritte, for example? I'm not saying the page needs an in depth exploration of the influence of Surrealism on postmodernism, but it needs as much mention as Dadaism. Also, the phrasing/grouping implies that Beckett was an existentialist which is a common mistake (yes, I know Camus isn't one either, but that's not my point); if "literary" is in the title of the section, shouldn't more time be spent on actual literary figures (I'm talking maybe a sentence or two). Beckett's break from Joyce is more significant in making him a "father" of "postmodernism" than implications that he "drew heavily" from Kierkegaard and Nietzsche ... who, by the way, he didn't really draw all that "heavily" from. I vote for another sentence or two to justify this section having the word "literary" in the header. I say a significant development in the history of postmodernism (and this can justify the inclusion of Dadaism) is the adaptation of William S. Burroughs of the cut up technique (first suggested by Tristan Tzara, a Dadaist and a Surrealist). But I'm sure plenty of people would disagree that there's enough significance to that to include it here.

Now for the basic factual error: "In 1971, the term postmodernism was coined for the first time by the Arab American Theorist Ihab Hassan." First of all "coined for the first time" is redundant, and it's just plain wrong. I love Ihab Hassan but he didn't coin the term postmodernism. He may be the first one to use it in the way we use it today. "Postmodernism" was first used to describe Latin American literature of the late nineteenth, early twentieth century, first used in the 30's. Then Charles Olson was using it in the fifties and it was used by a lot of people in the fifties and sixties to describe Black Mountain poets, New York School poets, San Francisco Renaissance poets, Beat poets, etc. That's why the influential anthology edited by Donald Allen originally called "The New American Poetry" (1960)that was influential in helping define the above mentioned groups, was later republished as "The Postmoderns" and the related anthology of fiction edited by LeRoi Jones was also called "The Postmoderns". Is all that relevant? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly think the phrasing on the Hassan sentence needs to be changed.

F. Simon Grant 19:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]