Talk:2023 Quran burnings in Sweden: Difference between revisions

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::::I don't agree with adding the year. "Quran crisis" or "Quran burning crisis" are bizarre names but they would work because they're proper names created outside of Wikipedia. Adding anything to them makes them descriptive titles created by Wikipedia and the name loses legitimacy since it ceases to be a bizarre proper name and becomes a bizarre name invented by us. We call it [[World War II]] and not [[1939–1945 World War II]]. I propose simply using "'''Quran burning crisis'''". It's simple and allows us to go beyond 2023 and cover previous cases in Sweden. This also retains the benefit of being able to be extended into Denmark. It's also the most popular name used by English-language sources (I searched "Quran crisis" and a lot of the results are unrelated, it's probably too general of a name; still it's worth being added to the lead). [[User:Super Dromaeosaurus|Super Dromaeosaurus]] ([[User talk:Super Dromaeosaurus|talk]]) 09:10, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
::::I don't agree with adding the year. "Quran crisis" or "Quran burning crisis" are bizarre names but they would work because they're proper names created outside of Wikipedia. Adding anything to them makes them descriptive titles created by Wikipedia and the name loses legitimacy since it ceases to be a bizarre proper name and becomes a bizarre name invented by us. We call it [[World War II]] and not [[1939–1945 World War II]]. I propose simply using "'''Quran burning crisis'''". It's simple and allows us to go beyond 2023 and cover previous cases in Sweden. This also retains the benefit of being able to be extended into Denmark. It's also the most popular name used by English-language sources (I searched "Quran crisis" and a lot of the results are unrelated, it's probably too general of a name; still it's worth being added to the lead). [[User:Super Dromaeosaurus|Super Dromaeosaurus]] ([[User talk:Super Dromaeosaurus|talk]]) 09:10, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::Agreed. [[User:AlexandraAVX|AlexandraAVX]] ([[User talk:AlexandraAVX|talk]]) 10:25, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::Agreed. [[User:AlexandraAVX|AlexandraAVX]] ([[User talk:AlexandraAVX|talk]]) 10:25, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Oppose''', I don't see how these are the same event. I also fear that this might accumulate in the idea that Quranic burnings and their reactions are a common event throughout European countries. "Quranic crisis" doesn't appear to be popular or notable enough to be the entire article. It is an ongoing event with yet unpredicatble notablity. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a news paper.

Revision as of 13:01, 2 August 2023

Title of this article

I'm unsure on the title of this article, as it makes it seem as if we are focusing on protests against this in Sweden itself, whereas this article is very much about the outcry within Muslim-majority countries. Not sure what a better title would be but started this discussion in case anyone shared my concern, and notified WP:SWEDEN and WP:ISLAM. GnocchiFan (talk) 17:17, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Quran desecrations in Sweden", makes sense. It follows naturally that you would also discuss responses/consequences even if it isn't explicitly stated in the title. Draken Bowser (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. I think that would be a better title. GnocchiFan (talk) 18:09, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, major WP:CONCISION issues with the present title. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:37, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Since there's agreement that the title is inadequate, I've changed the title to 2023 Quran desecration in Sweden. No objections to this being moved to Quran desecrations in Sweden (as suggested) if we're including more information on previous incidents. GnocchiFan (talk) 15:46, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 July 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. The additional discussion to add Denmark will apparently be handled separately. [Edit: There is also not yet a consensus to expand the article by removing "2023".] (closed by non-admin page mover) SilverLocust 💬 15:16, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]


2023 Quran desecration in Sweden2023 Quran burnings in Sweden – Most of the sources use the term burning, so I think this is the appropriate title.

If editors disagree, this should be moved to 2023 Quran desecrations in Sweden as it refers to more than one event. GnocchiFan (talk) 11:39, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: DenverCoder19 has added some more information on related Quran burnings in Denmark, and has opened a discussion up on the article talk page on changing the name further. Personally. I think moving this to 2023 Quran burnings in Sweden and Denmark is preferable, but please see further down this talk page for further information. Thank you! – GnocchiFan (talk) 19:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think "burning" is more propriate, since "desecration" entails a value-judgement, which is more prone to be disputed than the fact, it has been burned. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 12:26, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support used by most sources and most accurate. DenverCoder9 (talk) 18:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 31 July 2023: Swedish-Danish or Scandanavian

There is a clear pattern of protests where the koran is burned, in reaction to the first protest. These protests seem to happen in both Sweden and Denmark. Since there are part of the same "phenomenon", they should be part of the same article.

I've added notes about the follow-up protests for evidence. DenverCoder9 (talk) 18:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@DenverCoder19: Thanks for the addition to the article – I was considering whether these are relevant, but the articles on the follow-up protests clearly mention the Quran burnings in Sweden.
Obviously, the article title will need to be changed (as you know, there's already a move request re: desecration or burnings, so I'm a little wary of opening one now). 2023 Quran burnings in Sweden and Denmark would be my preference over 2023 Quran burnings in Scandinavia, as Sweden and Denmark are specifically mentioned. GnocchiFan (talk) 19:11, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, and let's do the first move before the second: let's consider them as separate points. DenverCoder9 (talk) 21:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 August 2023

2023 Quran burnings in Sweden2023 Quran burnings in Sweden and Denmark – So sorry to request this so soon after my previous move request, but as per discussion on the article talk page, this page probably should be moved to 2023 Quran burnings in Sweden and Denmark or 2023 Quran burnings in Scandinavia. Personally I prefer the former, as Sweden and Denmark are explicitly mentioned, and the Danish burnings are clearly seen as a response to the events in Sweden.

Mentioning users involved in the previous discussion / other article talk page discussions for their input: AlexandraAVX, Cerebral726, DenverCoder19, Draken Bowser, Festucalex, Iskandar323, Rreagan007, SilverLocust, Super Dromaeosaurus and VenusFeuerFalle. GnocchiFan (talk) 15:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Quran burnings in Sweden and Denmark. Titling an article of this style with the year restricts it to one single phenomenon, which may or not have extended into several countries. Taking the year out expands the scope into any phenomenon of the type that has taken place in a given place. However we cannot make all Quran burnings in Sweden and Denmark into one single article because not all must have been related to each other so it is arbitrary. No opinion on other proposals, though I'm not too keen on using Scandinavia because it doesn't look like this has happened in Norway. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 21:25, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment after a search on Google, it can be found that the situation is now widely referred to as the "Quran crisis" (Korankrisen in Swedish and Danish media) and as the "Quran burning crisis" in some English-speaking media. Perhaps this should be worked into the title in some form. Thismess (talk) 21:41, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 21:53, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe as simple as the 2023 Quran burning crisis and leave the specific naming of countries out of the title since it would be overly descriptive to name two countries IMO. Thismess (talk) 22:18, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would support a rename to 2023 Quran burning crisis, would enable a separate article about the phenomenon as a whole in Sweden and also mean the article would still make sense if the events expand beyond just Sweden and Denmark. --AlexandraAVX (talk) 07:48, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree with adding the year. "Quran crisis" or "Quran burning crisis" are bizarre names but they would work because they're proper names created outside of Wikipedia. Adding anything to them makes them descriptive titles created by Wikipedia and the name loses legitimacy since it ceases to be a bizarre proper name and becomes a bizarre name invented by us. We call it World War II and not 1939–1945 World War II. I propose simply using "Quran burning crisis". It's simple and allows us to go beyond 2023 and cover previous cases in Sweden. This also retains the benefit of being able to be extended into Denmark. It's also the most popular name used by English-language sources (I searched "Quran crisis" and a lot of the results are unrelated, it's probably too general of a name; still it's worth being added to the lead). Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 09:10, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. AlexandraAVX (talk) 10:25, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, I don't see how these are the same event. I also fear that this might accumulate in the idea that Quranic burnings and their reactions are a common event throughout European countries. "Quranic crisis" doesn't appear to be popular or notable enough to be the entire article. It is an ongoing event with yet unpredicatble notablity. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a news paper.