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Joseph Berrios

Benet Academy

Previous peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to eventually nominate it for FA. This article has already had a peer review and recently passed GA. I would appreciate suggestions on how to make it more comprehensive and how to improve the prose.

Thanks, Benny the mascot (talk) 19:42, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry this is taking me so long - will review in the next 24 hours. Sorry, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 02:02, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No need to rush...I have other ways of keeping myself busy. :) Good luck on your FAC, by the way. Benny the mascot (talk) 03:15, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: Thanks for being so understanding - this looks pretty good to me, so here are some mostly nit-picky suggestions for improvement.

  • One thing that is sometimes hard to do is to provide context to the reader about things the author is familiar with. I am fairly familiar with the Chicago area, but was not that sure where Lisle was. A brief description would help (x miles west of the Loop / downtown Chicago) or a map with a dot would help too.
  • I also was confused by mentions of the college, but no real resolution on what happened to it - it took me a little searching here, but I assume it is what is now known as Benedictine University in Lisle. The article mentions the university as the site of buildings The St. Procopius monks decided on March 12, 1900, to build a new college[20] on the site of present-day Benedictine University at the southwest corner of Maple and College Avenues.[12], and in terms of a scholarship at the academy, but I think it needs to explicitly say what happened to the college after the academy split. I realize that this article on the Academy, so it need not be a lot of detail, but some is needed.
  • The map is nice, but I am guessing the Census does not show buildings (only streets and water), so the source for those needs to be given explicitly - this will be checked at FAC.
  • The capitalization of College and Academy by themselves seems a bit odd, though it is done consistently as far as I can tell. The Wikipedia:MOS#Institutions says if it is the generic word (college, academy) by itself it should not be capitalized.
  • The lead just seems sparse to me - especially the second and third paragraphs. My rule of thumb is to make sure every header is in the lead somehow - are Demographics and the Christmas Drive there?
    • I mentioned the Christmas Drive a little bit, but the Demographics section is already somewhat covered in the lead. ("Benet's average ACT test score has exceeded statewide and national averages, and more than 99 percent of students have gone on to college after graduation")
  • The language is decent but I noticed a few rough spots reading - I will try and come back and point some more out soon, here is one to start
    • Classes began on March 2, when Rev. Procopius Neuzil taught two remedial high school students in two small rooms at 704 Allport Street for four months. FOur months in one day? Wow that's concentrated teaching! Perhaps Classes began on March 2, and for the next four months Rev. Procopius Neuzil taught two remedial high school students in two small rooms at 704 Allport Street. would be better. I am also not sure students can be remedial - I thought classes were? Could be wrong

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:46, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your feedback! Benny the mascot (talk) 01:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
More from Ruhrfisch

I will try to point out language that needs work here, as well as any other issues that I notice

  • Lead It was founded in 1887 as the all-boys St. Procopius College and Academy by Benedictine monks in Chicago, who also operated the St. Joseph Bohemian Orphanage, which along with St. Procopius later moved to Lisle, approximately 25 miles (40 km) west of Chicago.[6] Could this sentence be split into two? As it is now it is quite long and complex - I would start the new sentence after the word orphanage. Also could the year(s) for the move(s) to Lisle be added to provide context?
  • Capitalization of college? The orphanage closed in 1956 to make room for St. Procopius Academy, which then separated from the College in 1957. (In Internet Explorer you can search for a word and it highlights all the matching terms in yellow - might be worth checking caps on college and academy this way)
  • Tweak sentence Sacred Heart merged with St. Procopius Academy in 1967 on the St. Procopius campus to establish Benet Academy [on the St. Procopius campus].
  • Also, any idea where the name "Benet" came from? a ha - here it says Benet is an English form of Benedict
  • Unclear Benet's performing arts program stages multiple musicals ... I think it would be clearer to say Benet's performing arts program stages a musical annually... perhaps saying since when
  • Need to be consistent on names - in the text it is "Reverend John Nepomucene Jaeger of the Order of St. Benedict..." but the image caption is just "Abbot Nepomucene Jaeger" (no John). I also wonder since St John of Nepomuk is not well known in the US, if a link would be in order?
  • Suggested reoganization Reverend John Nepomucene Jaeger of the Order of St. Benedict was the pastor of the parish[.] , which served approximately 16,000 to 20,000 parishioners. Chicago at that time had the largest Czech population of any other city in the world outside of Prague and Vienna. Roughly 50,000 Czech immigrants were served by the three Czech parishes of Chicago, which included [16,000 to 20,000 parishioners at] St. Procopius.
  • The source says they were teaching high school classes then, so I would clarify that in Only a two-year [high school] program was offered at the time; the college offered its first four-year high school program in 1904.[9]
  • Might flow more smoothly as The first Bohemian abbot in the United States, Abbot Jaeger[, the first Bohemian abbot in the United States,] founded a Bohemian monastic community in 1894...
  • What does better atmosphere mean? The college and academy continued to grow in Chicago; in 1896 the Abbey bought the 104-acre (42 ha) Morris Neff farm in Lisle to gain more space and a better atmosphere.[9] Cleaner air than in the city?
  • Since I am assuming that the present Benedictine University still is on the site because they are the re-named St Procopius College, I think that needs to be made clearer in this: The St. Procopius monks decided on March 12, 1900, to build a new college[21] on the site of present-day Benedictine University at the southwest corner of Maple and College Avenues.[13]
  • OK I am stopping the rough spots here. I think this would benefit from a copy edit before FAC. There are a few other things I noticed:
  • What makes Remembering Lisle a reliable source? See WP:RS
  • The alt text for the mascot should desribe it as a bird, not a redwing (there might be those who think of the Detroit Redwings or even Red Wing Shoes

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 00:42, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your advice! I've fixed most of the issues you've brought up; I just need to get that copyedit completed. Benny the mascot (talk) 19:59, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Featured article candidates

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The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 00:26, 9 April 2010 [1].

Michelle Obama

Nominator(s): TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:41, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]


I am nominating this for featured article because it was previously nominated two and a half months after she assumed the role of First Lady of the United States. There were issues with recentism and what her long term role is. Now that she has established her legacy objective and undertaken a role in running an administrationwide initiative, I think it is time to reconsider whether this article is among the finest at summarizing the bio of this living person.TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:41, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Ucucha 00:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The eligibility of this article is not clear for the cup. If it passes, we will request clarification.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments: The books under "Further reading" are not formatted properly; an author's surname is always first, and I'm not aware of any standard style (MLA, APA, Chicago, etc.) that lists the month of publication as well as the year -- correct me if I'm wrong on the last point, however. Publication cities are also missing in all three instances. In addition, is there a reason why the books listed are not used as references for the article? From what I can tell after a quick skimming, most of the references are news reports and articles, which is great if that's all there is, but my belief is that if there are reputable, published works available, why not use them? María (habla conmigo) 12:44, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I can reformat the citations. However, if you are telling me that I have to read a couple of novels to advance this FAC, it is not going to happen. On many subjects there are far more references than are used in creating the article. Does this article appear to be lacking breadth, depth or WP:RS for the material that exists?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm not telling you to do anything, Tony. But now that you mention it, what's so wrong about reading books for the sake of a gold star? ;) The question is, does this article -- which relies solely on online news sources when there are seemingly reliable, published works available -- truly present a "representative survey of the relevant literature on the topic"? I obviously haven't read the books, or even the article in its entirety, but past FACs have been hit with such queries in the past. Because this is such an important article, and one that will continue to be scrutinized by many readers, the references should obviously be of the highest quality currently available. If the books in question are not worth the paper they're printed on, okay; but they should at least be assessed to find whether or not they can be of use. María (habla conmigo) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • I have several times done research such as that to get a gold star. My WP is much less than it use to be. In most cases, for architecture articles I have read books that had 4 or 5 pages on a building or structure that I was researching. I was able to add a few books in a few hours. In this case, we are talking about entire books devoted to the subject. Compared to some of my recent FAs such as Jay Pritzker Pavilion, Cloud Gate, Crown Fountain, or Trump International Hotel and Tower (Chicago) where I was able to improve the perceived quality of the WP article by looking at a few passages in architecture books, this would take an industrious effort that I am not up to. I could not imagine it would take me less than 50 hours to read the references that you mention. I do not have that much time for WP anymore.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: Has a delegate approved this nom, bearing in mind the 15-day rule and that this nominator's 2008–09 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team was archived only on 6 April? Brianboulton (talk) 21:18, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I confess to not really reading the constantly revised rules with each nomination. If this nomination is suppose to be closed that is fine.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • With no opinion on the merits of the article (which I haven't read in any detail), I'd say this is a clear candidate for WP:IAR. That rule is intended to prevent FAC from being clogged by mass nominations of poor quality articles into FAC by people who don't really understand what's required; Tony clearly doesn't fall into that category. – iridescent 00:17, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Actually, that rule was put into place to stop editors from using FAC as a source of serial peer reviews, putting up a second nomination as soon as their previous nom was archived, clogging FAC and treating it as peer review, and regularly bringing back articles with little change as soon as the last nomination was archived. In fact, yes, this review needs to be closed, as the rule was put into place precisely for this purpose. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

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Illinois

Kat Abughazaleh

Kat Abughazaleh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I have never seen a random House candidate be considered to pass WP:NOTABLE prior to an election, let alone the primary. Jesus, we've had primary winners in D/R+25 districts who are all but guaranteed victory in the general not get articles published until they're officially members-elect. Therequiembellishere (talk) 13:43, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A journalist having two articles about her prior to a campaign does not meet GNG imo, let alone using that very thin standing to crack the door open and prop up essentially a promotional piece article dedicated to her primary campaign. We don't have articles for the abysmal primary campaigns by Matt Lieberman for GA Senate in 2010 or Levi Sanders for NH-01 in 2018 that both got fairly ample press coverage. Mondaire Jones didn't have an article in main space at least until after the 2020 primary with a ton of press in the lead up. Diana Harshbarger didn't move into mainspace until after the 2020 general in a district who's primary she won with an R+30 Cook PVI. I can't think of any other "insurgent challenger" or "progressive/MAGA in a crowded primary" candidate getting an article this early in recent memory, let alone on their first campaign and before they even win the nomination. Marie Newman/Cori Bush had at least run before; Ayanna Pressly/Ilhan Omar/Rashida Tlaib and Jake LaTurner/Katie Arrington were elected officials already. AOC was a totally unique bombshell campaign that I'm 95% sure didn't have an article until after she'd won the primary. I don't think Lauren Boebert had an article until she succeeded in primarying Tipton, Bob Good didn't after primarying Riggleman with a ton of press coverage until after the general. This reeks so much of WP:RECENTISM to me. She wouldn't have had an article on the standing of just those two articles alone before this campaign, and the coverage of her launch like 18months before the election does not uniquely distinguish her to merit an article compared to all these others to me. Nothing personal to you here, to be clear, it is just boggling to me what makes this candidate so different. Therequiembellishere (talk) 15:05, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All this to say, I think this does fall under WP:BLP1E, and we should wait until the primary to see if she wins before considering an article at that point. Not to go too far down that road, but think in general that if she beats Schakowsky, a very lontime and notable incumbent, in the primary with this wealth of news coverage that it would merit an article. But if Schakowsky announces a retirement, based on past first time candidates winning in heavily partisan districts (like Harshbarger or Brandon Gill this cycle, who was himself a cuspy semi-notable online person based on his father-in-law) that we've held off until the general to move them into the mainspace. In the former scenario, the primary win over the incumbent is the notable event regardless of eventual victory in the general. In the latter, even if the chances of her losing are extremely small, I would agree with those other past editors in viewing it as still under WP:CRYSTAL because life/politics does happen and she could lose; and I can't see a case for a failed one-time nominee who vied for a retiring member's seat meriting an article. Therequiembellishere (talk) 16:21, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I went into this discussion expecting to !vote delete and was surprised to find what I decided was GNG-qualifying coverage. Both articles pre-date the campaign by years, so they're not the same event. What happened to other article subjects is irrelevant as WP:OTHERSTUFF; in this case we should look at the sources in front of us. Dclemens1971 (talk) 17:27, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I hear you, and fundamentally disagree that an article based on those two pieces would pass muster either. I would support deleting any article with just those two events. And while I hear you about OTHERSTUFF and frequently think the "rules"/"guidelines" of wikipedia are over enforced by some users here like they're international law over using WP:COMMONSENSE, I think the very strong history of practice has been wise. Again raising RECENTISM and CRYSTAL, I strongly feel the primary at a minimum should be the determining factor moving from draftspace to mainspace. The campaign was launched one week ago with a flood of (much of it likely planned) media attention; that's smart campaign tactics! There's no evidence as to the efficacy of her campaign maintaining this level of momentum and attention beyond week one. I just can't see the encyclopedic/editorial case for it at this stage. Therequiembellishere (talk) 17:36, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: TOOSOON. I've gone back as far as Gnews will allow, and you can only find articles about the run for office (in Rolling Stone, the Washington Post and others), but these are all in the last week, some going back as far as last fall. All entirely related to the political run. Outside of that, doesn't appear to have been known enough for being an "influencer" or any of the other things listed. Oaktree b (talk) 19:16, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I spent some time today with paywalled sources and found commentary on the prominence and influence of her media work in 2023 and mid-2024, significantly before she ran for office. I also found some coverage of her social media influence in 2022. I've added these to the article accordingly. Sumana Harihareswara 02:20, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I don't see articles going back "years" mostly from late in 2023. "Online person does stuff and people talked about it/didn't like it" is about the extent of the two sources used. Had this person not been running for office, they wouldn't be notable as an influencer due to a lack of sourcing. Running for office doesn't put them over the hump for notability. Could always revisit in six months, if they win. Oaktree b (talk) 19:19, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just noting, the primary will be between in March to June 2026 next year, and not in six months. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:47, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I very extensively elaborate in the discussion and support moving it back into draftspace, so the accusation that it's just IDONTLIKEIT is off base. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:36, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You can't expect someone voting in this nom to know your full backstory with this article and you should've disclosed that in your rationale to begin with and just neutrally commented about why you're seeking an AfD decision. That said, the article has been expanded and WP:HEYed with good sourcing, so I'm now a keep vote. Nathannah • 📮 21:18, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Feel like I can expect them to read the preceding discussion. But... hey. Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:52, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: at least a half of the article is based on (authoritative) material written in 2023-2024, prior to her campaign, and describes her as an influencer/internet personality Opostylov (talk) 02:40, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: In 2023, The New Yorker and Buzzfeed were covering her work, in detail. In 2024, Politico and The New Republic named her a political commentator/influencer to watch, and she was influential enough that the Democratic National Convention wanted her there in person. (I've improved the article to include those -- as well as 2022 coverage of her social media influence, which also speaks to WP:SUSTAINED.) Those periodical articles, and regard demonstrated for her media criticism work, indicate that the subject fulfills WP:JOURNALIST. Sumana Harihareswara 02:58, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Wth the improvements by Sumanah, we're in WP:HEY territory for this article. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:01, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep sufficiently supported by sources Personisinsterest (talk) 19:08, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per User:ThadeusOfNazereth. Running in a primary does not itself make one notable, but getting dedicated articles in multiple national publications very strongly suggests notability. A chain of dedicated articles going back over two years on multiple activities unrelated to running for office confirms it. Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 03:40, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Klein

Alex Klein (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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On behalf of the article subject, per WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE, please delete this article as its subject believes himself to be a private, non-notable person who does not meet WP:GNG, WP:BIO and that he is not a notable musician per WP:NMG. See VRT ticket 2025032810007522. Geoff | Who, me? 21:19, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Harry M. Londelius Jr.

Harry M. Londelius Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable architect who's 5 minutes is that he may (or may not) have designed the house used in the The Brady Brunch. Not nearly enough in-depth coverage from independent reliable sources to meet WP:SIGCOV. At most deserves a mention on the TV show page in the discussion regarding the house, and he's already mentioned there. Onel5969 TT me 21:24, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Turner Landing, Illinois

Turner Landing, Illinois (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Appears to be a river landing, a place for docking boats, not a community. –dlthewave ☎ 19:31, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Illinois. –dlthewave ☎ 19:31, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Can't confirm if the community is indeed real or not, but regardless there is not nearly enough coverage of this place to warrant an article. NGIS is a database source, and Hometown Locator isn't reliable. Digging through Newspaper Archive, I'm finding no results for a "Turner Landing" in this location either, instead nearly all hits are for a "Turner's Landing" near Cairo. Jordano53 21:50, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • It will — or at least should — surprise exactly no-one that a river landing was exactly what this was: Turner's Landing in fact, as marked on early 20th century maps, as listed in Mississippi River Commission reports and mid-19th-century USACE benchmark listings, and as listed in Louis Adam's 1877 Directory of Points and Landings on Rivers and Bayous. See Landings on All the Western and Southern Rivers and Bayous at the Internet Archive for example. The cherry on top in this case is that this was not originally claimed to be a populated place. The 1980s GNIS listed this as a "locale" not as a "ppl". This is more "unincorporated community" lies that Wikipedia has been telling the world. Uncle G (talk) 02:06, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Uncle G, unless someone has non-database style sources hidden under their hat this article has no business being kept as a clear GNIS error. Eluchil404 (talk) 23:19, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fountain Creek, Illinois

Fountain Creek, Illinois (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not to be confused with Fountain Creek Township, Iroquois County, Illinois. Maps show only a rail siding with a grain elevator, and newspaper articles cover the nearby creek not this location. –dlthewave ☎ 18:56, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Shimeru (talk) 07:25, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jake Bernstein

Jake Bernstein (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non notable market trader and self publicist. Insufficient citations in WP:RS to satisfy notability. Prod removed without explanation by IP. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 22:02, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • a neighborly Response to TonyTheTiger
Whenever I guess, I often guess wrong, so I'd rather not mimic your guess he's a keeper this time.
The sheer volume of publication offers no supporting argument in favor of Wikipedia notability:
An argument popular at AfD proceedings is "She has X number of Y, which proves that she's notable" (or not).
We may establish notability not by the quantity of one's published work, but rather by the quality of the subject's verifiable, reliable sources. An article on a topic is more likely to pass the notability test with a single article in Encyclopedia Britannica than with 1 million views on YouTube.
For more information, please see I Like It! : Arbitrary Quantity.
I would encourage you to reverse your recommendation — if only to a Luke-Warm Delete — unless you can accomplish what not one of the rest of us has been able to do in two years of trying in good faith:
to demonstrate Notability by revealing to all of us reliable, independent, credible, established, mainstream news sources that have produced any substantial, comprehensive coverage of this subject.
— Wordsmith (talk) 03:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
____________________________________________
.
  • Strong Keep I'm a student of Jake Bernstein, I made the original entry and have occassionally appended it. Jake's work is objective and helpful. The entry should remain, without bias, as a simple identification of a very prolific author who is also a helpful teacher. Biased content added by the misinformed who do not know Jake or his work first hand should be removed as well as references to slanderous competitors sites. The entry should remain as a simple identification and bibliography of a prolific author. --Thor1964 (T/Special:Contributions/Thor1964/User:Thor1964/WP:Santa Cruz, CA) 12:33, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • a congenial Response to Thor1964
As I've said before, my first obligation is to presume your good faith, and I hereby renew that presumption in your favor once more.
I understand and I respect your loyalty to your subject, Thor, and I urge you to amend — and defend — your case for a Jake Bernstein article, but only if you can ingenuously establish his notability from substantial, extant, reputable, mainstream, secondary coverage of him by sources that do not "know Jake or his work first hand," in accord with the Wikipedia policy on Notability and acceptable Sources, in advance of a reincarnation of your article.
.
I myself have not, cannot, and I've failed to find even one objective person who can.
Nonetheless, I remain receptive to anyone anywhere who can do the deed honestly.
You weaken your case (when none of us should have a "case" or any agenda at all)
if you choose to neglect the only important issue here (Notability), in favor of
such expressions of a personal point of view that our guidelines for this very discussion exclude:
"I'm a student of Jake Bernstein" + Jake's "a helpful teacher" = Wikipedia: I Like Him + Wikipedia:He's Helpful
.
Please let me encourage you to cite genuine evidence of Notability if you can — or perhaps, if you find yourself agreeing that no significant, substantial, independent, secondary, reputable coverage of Jake is out there anywhere, friend, to reverse your recommendation gently to a Regretful and Reluctant Delete — since your argument here, as it stands, may carry no weight in this nomination for deletion, in view of what we find in Notability is Not a Matter of Opinion. Your statement here
  • is not supported by any policies, guidelines or precedents;
  • does not represent a neutral point of view;
  • and seems to suggest you've not had much luck finding any legitimate sources of independent coverage of Jake for your article, which is a clear sign that your charismatic teacher does not meet the notability criterion.
  • Instead of establishing notability, your arguments and your actions upon the Article as well as its Talk page serve to suggest that you may be feeling some frustration at the impossibility of resolving the troublesome issues of Jake as a suitable subject here, while you may have inadvertently been demonstrating the dearth of legitimate coverage, and his consequent inadmissibility in the face of Wikipedia's tests for notability;
  • Some of the properties of your statement are specifically listed as those to avoid in deletion discussions like this one, and it does more harm to your cause than any good.
None of us should feel committed to any cause, as such — don't you think? — except to the integrity of our encyclopedia.
Let me know if I can help you.
— Wordsmith (talk) 09:30, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
____________________________________________
.


I expect that it will just get deleted again-- this is the part that is always deleted by anonymous IP address editors every time it shows up in the article-- but given that the article is on the deletion discussion list, I put back into the article the material that has been repeatedly deleted, including the article in Forbes and the circuit court opinion:

  • William Green, "There's one born every minute," Forbes, March 9, 1999 (article at Forbes.com)
  • MBH Commodity Advisors, Inc. and Jacob Bernstein, Petitioners, v. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Respondent. In the United States Court of Appeals For the Seventh Circuit - 250 F.3d 1052 (7th Cir. 2001) Decision (decision also available from caselaw)

Geoffrey.landis (talk) 15:05, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: Acccording to the wikipeda history of Geoffrey.landis edits, he regularly vandalizes other peoples wikipedia entries, propogates and participates in edit warring, and has been formaly punished by wikipedia in the past by being banned from making entries for a significant time period. Geoffrey.landis has proven to be an exceptionally arrogant and highly biased individual who thinks he knows everything about every subject, and should be premanetly banned from any making wikipedia entries and/or edits due to his uncivilized anti-social behavior therein. As an example, his election for deletion of other more notable and more widely published successful authors entries in wikipedia.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.153.184 (talk) 17:29, 24 March 2010

Please do not make personal attacks on other editors. Please adhere to the civility policy, assume good faith and observe wiki etiquette. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 20:39, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your vote of confidence, User: 76.200.153.184. Just as a comment, I notice that 76.200.153.184 has made no edits to any articles other than Jake Bernstein-- and my user page. I'll also note that Thor1964 has made no edits to any articles other than approximately 60 edits to Jake Bernstein. In fact there are a lot of anonymous editors who have done nothing except add promotional material to Jake Bernstein-- 76.247.107.66 and 99.163.50.178 and 76.254.84.164 for example, to pick just three of many. Geoffrey.landis (talk) 15:57, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –Juliancolton | Talk 00:43, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but the first step after keeping will be for someone unconnected to rewrite the article. Absurd promotionalism is not to be balanced by one-sided reports of adverse litigation, but by a fair treatment of the person. He's notable as an author because of the multiple books by major business publishers. DGG ( talk ) 02:14, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
See also materials from [10]. Looks like most of this is copied from his many self promotional web sites. --Nuujinn (talk) 19:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Merge and redirect per previous consensus. I added an entry for Servicelive.com at Sears Holdings Corporation, using a more recent source. This article will then be redirected to preserve the history. If consensus emerges at Talk:Sears Holdings Corporation that this site doesn't merit inclusion, that works too - but it is operated by Sears and should still redirect there. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:20, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ServiceLive

ServiceLive (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Tagged for merge BACK IN MARCH FREAKING 2009 and nobody could be arsed. Use it or lose it. Sources seem too thin to even warrant a merge. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 00:12, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:08, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Shimeru (talk) 19:54, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Red Bar Radio

Red Bar Radio (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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An "internet radio" show (somebody hasn't checked the definition of radio) previously deleted, recreated, deleted G4, AfD'd and deleted again, undeleted for the user to add citations, AfDd no consensus, and has been languishing with a notability tag since 2008. Creator was Redbarradio (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), I wonder if there could possibly be a COI here? Tagged as A7 but given the history I thought it was probably better to bring it here. Guy (Help!) 18:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jayjg (talk) 22:42, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Candy Manson

Candy Manson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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fails WP:PORNBIO, no indication the subject can meet the GNG or any other specialized guideline. Deleted after initial AFD, survived 2nd AFD based on now-rejected "one-nomination" standard and on subject's claim of upcoming mainstream TV work, which never materialized. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment, leaning toward Keep vote I have tagged this article for rescue.
I have also added these three sources to the article. SilverserenC 09:15, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Arbitrarily0 (talk) 02:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Larsen

Robert Larsen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable small college football coach, whose article was deleted at AfD two years ago. The article was userfied at the creator's request, and promptly restored by the creator with the claim that "Discovered also was a head coach at University of Chicago, added several sources." Upon an examination of the links in the article, not a single one of them discuss Larsen in substantive detail, as WP:RS requires, and half of them are simple collections of stats. Beyond that, the creator implies that the University of Chicago is, and was during Larsen's tenure, some big-time athletic school and therefore confers notability on its coaches. This is not the case; Chicago plays in Division III, a full three rungs below major college football and the lowest level of sport the NCAA sanctions at all. The article has been completely unimproved in over a year and a half. This article should never have been restored, and should be promptly deleted as failing WP:BIO and the GNG both.  Ravenswing  10:25, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep I think many programs that have been both DI and DIII have coaches for their entire history considered as notable people here on WP. Since Chicago has such a storied history from the Amos Alonzo Stagg days, I think he is an important component to the complete history of Chicago football.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep clear-cut case of a bad faith nomination. FIRST: The "promptly restored" statement, which would seem to indicate merely a few days. In this case, the restoration took from November 2, 2008 until June 26, 2009, over seven months. SECOND: Nominator supplies a "creator implies" section, stating that the article creator (yes, that's me) implied that the school was a "big-time program" and yet avoides the statement in the article about the "modern era" when the school reinstated football at the Division III level. THIRD: Nominator calls for "prompt" deletion, implying a call for a speedy deletion instead of even having the discussion. Personally, I'm not sure by "promptly" the nominator means "right this minute" or the regular AfD discussion time period or seven months. FOURTH: Nominator states that "The article has been completely unimproved in over a year and a half" to which I have two responses: a) this is just not true either, as a simple check of the article history can provide, and b) who cares if it hadn't changed a bit in a year and a half, that's not a reason to delete.--Paul McDonald (talk) 03:19, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply: You're right on the "year and a half;" I meant half a year, and that's about the only accurate statement you make. As far as the absurd notion that I'm calling for a speedy here, I've been on Wikipedia for seven years and have participated in hundreds of deletion discussions, and know very well the difference between AfD and speedies, but if you were genuinely curious, you might have considered asking without violations of WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF. Moving along, of course you implied that Chicago is a big-time program; why else would being a coach there confer automatic notability that being a coach of a far smaller and more obscure school did not, and why would that mere assertion suddenly qualify the subject for an article? Finally, you fail to address the article's failure of the GNG.  Ravenswing  12:37, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment/Good Faith/Civility Please refer to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John D. Schwender where it seems we are having the same discussion. It should likely be here because I beleive that the bad faith violations are more prevelant here--they have sadly become linked. I have made no personal attacks and am simply calling to the Wikipedia community to review what I believe to be lies posted by the nominator, as well as providing evidence to support it for the community to review.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Request/accurate statement You stated that "that's about the only accurate statement you make" in your comment and then accuse me of not being civil. Okay, I can take it. Please take the statments I made that you find not truthful and let's address them point by point.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment/Big Time School History shows that the article Revision September 23, 2009, (edited by Huangdi) confirms that the program was an NCAA Division III School. While I did not make that edit, I thought it was a good one. It's been in place over six months.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment/Nominator's experience I'm sure you have been on Wikipedia for quite some time, but I don't see how that is a reason to delete the article. Why would you post such a statement??--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment/Speedy-promptly Okay, you don't mean to speedy delete. Just strike the word "promtly" from your nomination. Until then, the statements are adding undue weight and distracting from the issue at hand--the article being considered for deletion.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. In order to have proper encyclopedic scope, WikiProject College Football has endeavored to establish articles on the head coaches of the significant college football programs. That does not mean that every coach at every small college should have an article. The question is which programs are truly "significant." While Carroll and Chicago have had significant declines in their programs in recent years (including the years when Larsen was coach), both schools have historically had significant programs. Carroll played big-time football throughout the pre-World War II era, was involved in the game in which the first forward pass was thrown, and has produced 13 NFL players. Chicago has won two national football championships and seven Big Ten championships, produced several members of the College Football Hall of Fame (e.g., Berwanger, Des Jardien, Eckersall, Herschberger, Maxwell), and is the place where football giant Amos Alonzo Stagg made his name. Admittedly, neither Carroll nor Chicago has had a major football program in many years (even decades). This makes it a tough call on Larsen or other recent coaches at these schools. However, if we conclude that these two programs are significant (as they certainly were in the first half of the 20th Century), WikiProject Football's encyclopedic approach to coverage of such programs supports articles for head coaches of these programs. Accordingly, I lean towards keeping the articles. Cbl62 (talk) 16:46, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Tone 20:00, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

David Weigel

David Weigel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Delete per WP:BIO. Just because the person has written a lot via newspaper blogs does not make the individual notable. Note that article had already been speedily deleted but was restored. As per the policy on "journalists", his individual work is not 1)regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by their peers or successors 2) had a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, that has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews or 3)either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums. -Ave Caesar (talk) 20:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He is a blogger, not a journalist. That's not to say bloggers can't be notable, but there is no proof of influence. --Ave Caesar (talk) 16:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Supporting the fact that Mr. Weigel meets the criterion of being a notable journalist is that he has appeared on multiple NPR shows (Weekend Edition, Fresh Air with Terry Gross - twice) and numerous times on the MSNBC evening cable news/political shows. In addition, he is frequently referenced when not on those shows by Wikipedia notables, including: Chris Hayes (Washington, D.C. Editor of The Nation), Ana Marie Cox (Washington Correspondent for GQ Magazine), and Rachel Maddow herself of the Rachel Maddow Show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolverstone (talk • contribs) 13:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This is the first and only edit made by the above user...Further, the user offers no proof of wide citation.--Ave Caesar (talk) 16:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

---

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Good article discussions

Allikas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CHIR
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