The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.‎

The result was delete. Tone 14:54, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Clifton "Elvis" Wolcott (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Non-notable biography with few sources. His notability seems to come from the film Black Hawk Down. It will never be more then a short stub. Rin tin tin 1996 (talk) 17:56, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because they get notability from the same reason and are of similar quality.

Donovan "Bull" Briley

Lorenzo Ruiz

Dominick Pilla

Richard "Alphabet" Kowalewski

Casey Joyce

James Cavaco

Jamie Smith

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:32, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:32, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• I detest these nominations. Heroic young men, some with multiple awards for valor aren't "notable" enough to have an article, but some wasteoid who managed to rap his way to #199 on the Billboard charts between stints in prison is forever "notable". But based on our unrealistic standards, I have to hold my nose and say delete. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• I agree whole heartedly. On most I would say go ahead and delete (they will likely be put back in the future anyway) except for Wolcott. Keep Wolcott. Delete the others. --Kumioko (talk) 02:53, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• I was tempted to say keep Wolcott, but he doesn't meet but I can't see how to get him past WP:MILPEOPLE. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:23, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Partly I am saying keep because he is a very well known figure of the event and because there are plenty of references naming him specifically in relation to the event. I also believe he wrote a book about it making him an author (as are a couple of the other people who were there) but I can't find it at the moment. Related to Milpeople though I would say he meets criteria 5.--Kumioko (talk) 04:38, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• As others have pointed out, he died when his helicopter was shot down. Awards get written posthumously, but I don't think he wrote any books posthumously. I'm not aware of any of these names being authors. Give me a plausible reason to change my !vote and I'll thank you for it.Niteshift36 (talk) 22:31, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kumioko, I'm not sure he does meet Section 5, because his performance in the battle was limited to having his helicopter shot down. Rin tin tin 1996 (talk) 12:10, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Although his life wasn't limited to participating in that battle. He had a Silver Star also, which didn't come from that battle, so apparently he distinguished himself prior to, just not enough to pass the current notability guidelines. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:02, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as per Niftshift, though I agree with your sentiments. However we don't help ourselves by only writing very short articles about them. Buckshot06 (talk) 06:47, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete All, per Niteshift. You beat me to it on this AFD Rin Tin Tin! I think Kumioko is thinking of Michael Durant who I would keep (of course he isn't part of this AFD). Wolcott died in the battle, so any book would have been difficult for people on this plain of existence to read : ) I am slightly tempted to think keep for Wolcott based on his awards though... depends what others think. Ranger Steve (talk) 07:43, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• I considered trying the awards angle, but he doesn't meet that. WP:MILPEOPLE says multiple awards of the second highest award for valor. Wolcott's highest was a Silver Star (third highest) and it goes further down the order of precedence from there. Again, I'll thank anyone that gives me a way I can legitimately !vote keep. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:31, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete all per nomination Nick-D (talk) 09:54, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge all to Battle of Mogadishu (1993) and redirect. bahamut0013^words_deeds 11:47, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I agree with the nomination and believe that these articles currently do not satisfy the relevant policies listed above and thus should not exist on the encyclopedia. I would like to say, though, that I suspect that the reason these articles are getting written is because of all the redlinks in the parent article (Battle of Mogadishu (1993)), which encourage editors to create the articles. So, what can be done about this? I have two suggestions. Option one, delete the articles and remove the redlink wikilinks from the parent article. Option two, redirect the current articles to the parent one (this appears to have been done with Matt Rierson already). — AustralianRupert (talk) 11:20, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: If this passes (and I think it will) I would redirect the articles. Rin tin tin 1996 (talk) 13:39, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.