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Considering this has already become a massive edit war without a talk page discussion started on this talk page, I figured I would open it up for discussion.

Hits ([1]) and Rolling Stone ([2])⏤as previously noted in the article prose⏤may list them as part of the tour, however in a press release, Universal Music Canada ([3]) list them as Spring 2025 Dates - Previously Announced, while also omitting the April 11 and 18, 2025, concerts for the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival. It would seem the parent company of Interscope Records would present more plausible, reliable information in their press release, and if part of the tour, would have been in the press release (issued on March 26, 2025). livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:41, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While some outlets like Hits or Rolling Stone mention these shows near The Mayhem Ball, Gaga never officially promoted them as part of the tour. Each had its own title and branding (Long Live Mayhem, Mayhem on the Beach, Lion City Mayhem), and were announced separately.

Both Live Nation and Ticketmaster (signup.ticketmaster.com/ladygaga) show a clear distinction — the tour dates are listed separately, and the promotional concerts aren't grouped under The Mayhem Ball.

This is consistent with how Gaga has handled past eras (ArtRave, Dive Bar Tour, etc.). Until there’s official confirmation from Gaga's team, I think it's clearer to keep these concerts documented separately. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:21, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: Ticketmaster is not a reliable source, so information pertaining to it should be excluded. And whether it is consistent with past tours is irrelevant, as WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. We should deal with how this tour is marketed, etc. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:26, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for the clarification. Just to note, I didn’t add Ticketmaster as a source in the article itself — it was mentioned here on the talk page purely as context to show how the concerts were marketed. I agree that we should rely on how the tour is officially presented, which is why I support removing unsourced assumptions about those dates being part of the tour. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:28, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but if it's an unreliable source for in-article prose, then it should not be relied upon in a talk page argument; that'd be like using Setlist.FM as argument, when it isn't an acceptable source in-article prose. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:37, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point — we can set Ticketmaster aside and focus on more solid sources. In this case, Live Nation should carry more weight, since it's the tour's official promoter and directly involved in marketing and ticketing. Their listings clearly distinguish the promotional concerts by using individual titles (Long Live Mayhem, Mayhem on the Beach, Lion City Mayhem), whereas The Mayhem Ball is consistently labeled and marketed under a single name across all dates. To my knowledge, there's no precedent of a major tour having official, city-specific branding for select shows while still being considered part of a unified tour — especially not with different titles promoted by the artist herself. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:56, 27 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I’d like to briefly explain why the promotional concerts in Mexico, Brazil, and Singapore are not included in this article and are instead covered separately in Mayhem promotional concerts. These events were promoted independently under distinct titles (Long Live Mayhem, Mayhem on the Beach, Lion City Mayhem) and are not listed as part of The Mayhem Ball by Live Nation, Gaga’s longtime concert promoter and the company overseeing all her major live events. If we can’t rely on the very entity responsible for managing her shows globally, it becomes difficult to define what truly belongs to the tour. Additionally, Gaga herself stated: “I wasn’t planning to tour this year after my shows in Singapore, but the incredible response to the new album inspired me to keep things going.” This confirms that the promotional concerts were not initially part of any planned tour, and that The Mayhem Ball was conceived later in response to the album's reception. Given that, I believe keeping these events separate — both editorially and structurally — avoids confusion and better reflects how the artist and her team have chosen to present them. @Rockiron99 — just tagging you here since you’ve been editing this part of the article. Feel free to weigh in! CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 01:02, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"After a run of previously announced shows in April and May, Gaga’s first North American and European tour since her 2022 Chromatica Ball tour will open in the U.S. with a double-down in Las Vegas on July 16 and 18" - Billboard. --CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 06:37, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A third concert date has been added for Toronto at the Scotiabank Arena on September 13, 2025. 142.116.147.156 (talk) 18:14, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Shadow311 (talk) 17:41, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would argue that Artpop (the song) is part of the setlist too. It's the last song playing during the bows, after How Bad Do U Want Me. While she is not singing it live, it's still part of the show - comparable to how songs played during video interludes are usually included on setlists. 109.37.138.233 (talk) 18:29, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with this. While it is "technically" part of the setlist, she is not singing it live, and I think adding it to the set list section would make people think that she sang the song, because if they had not watched the show, they would not know that it is just the curtain call music. Carlo2026 (talk) 22:40, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

reminder to update Draft:LoveDrug with tour info ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:16, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

2.36.53.72 (talk) 23:48, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think there's a date missing in "surprise songs" section: July 24, 2025 - San Francisco: "Donatella".Hope that helps. Best regards

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I had a brief look myself and I wasn't able to find anything that wasn't a self-published source or social media post. If you can provide one, feel free to reopen this request. UmbyUmbreon (talk) 01:11, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should add a "surprise songs" category after the setlist kind of like The Eras Tour has on its wikipedia page. So that people can know which song was performed on each night. She did Heavy Metal Lover last night and there's only written "a majority of artpop songs […]". Robinpink (talk) 13:45, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would hardly consider the outro songs as "performances," since they are simply played from a recording, with Gaga only singing along to a line or two at most. We already had a "Surprise songs" section previously, but it was removed because we couldn't find reliable sources for every show. If you're able to provide a source for each and every song, then by all means, feel free to recreate the list. Sricsi (talk) 14:55, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

thx for your answer! i've never really edited something on wikipedia so i don't know haha. do tiktoks count as sources? i know some accounts that list every song she adds to the show Robinpink (talk) 05:22, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

TikTok is not acceptable as source. You can find everything on the topic here: Reliable sources. Sricsi (talk) 06:10, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We could do the table similar to the one found on Taylor Swift's The Eras Tour. Because now there are also some piano surprise songs. In that way we could highlight both the encore songs played from tape and piano songs (if they were part of the show) PGfan05 (talk) 17:43, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And we don't really need the sources - just look at the page of The Eras Tour PGfan05 (talk) 17:47, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"we don't really need the sources".

We absolutely do need sources. If you think otherwise, you’re in the wrong place. I recommend reading Wikipedia’s guidelines. Also, the article you’re referring to (The Eras Tour) already includes a source for the bonus songs. Sricsi (talk) 20:06, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many tours have setlist changes without each individual change cited. YouTube videos, articles, setlist websites, social media, and more all confirm these inclusions. The Weeknd's After Hours Til Dawn Tour (2022-2025) has an entire similar setlist changes section that is entirely unsourced. All we should need is an article confirming that the nightly changes occur Sweetcheeks123 (talk) 14:22, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Neither YouTube or social media should be used, per WP:RSPYT and WP:SOCIALMEDIA. Set list websites are also unacceptable, per WP:NOTRSMUSIC. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:17, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing to say for the fact that other tours have loads of unsourced material?? Everything I added was sourced on my last edit by the way Sweetcheeks123 (talk) 05:07, 3 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This is a discussion about this tour, not others (especially when other stuff exists); that is like saying Johnny jumped off the bridge, so we should jump off the bridge, too. It is a null argument, as two wrongs do not make a right. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:46, 3 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hey @Sricsi: you are the boss on amazing tour images, any luck yet? :) —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 18:18, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, no luck so far. Flickr used to be a reliable source until the Joanne Tour, but since then it has gradually declined, and now hardly anyone uploads tour photos there. I hope there will be a solution very soon. Sricsi (talk) 14:54, 3 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! I've just uploaded a few more files ("Garden of Eden", "Poker Face") from the same author as the "LoveGame" image. I've got others ready too ("Scheiße", "Born This Way", "Bad Romance", "Judas"). Also, user Biagio2103 started uploading photos from the Manchester show — see Category:Lady Gaga at Co-op Live (October 7, 2025). CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 18:18, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

According to some articles and Gaga's own Instagram story, the third Miami show is only postponed and to be rescheduled for a later date, not cancelled.^[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.7.62.53 (talk) 13:14, 4 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Add a list of final bow songs Blentius (talk) 15:37, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Day Creature (talk) 04:03, 7 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Change ‘17. “Just Dance”’ under Set List to ‘17. “Just Dance” (With elements of “Donatella”)’ 2A00:A041:359C:7400:E54D:76C9:9827:568B (talk) 22:14, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Day Creature (talk) 05:34, 11 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I propose merging Mayhem promotional concerts and The Mayhem Ball into a single article titled The Art of Personal Chaos concerts (the official name of the show). The Mayhem Ball is a slightly updated version of the original gig, where many of the performances, costumes, and stage props are borrowed from the earlier concerts. Keeping separate pages creates unnecessary duplication. I would instead have one article where the changes are pointed out. Consolidating the content into one properly titled article would provide a clearer, more comprehensive overview of this concert series, with sourced details about the show's development and variations. Sricsi (talk) 11:39, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As I noted here and here, while some publications (i.e., Hits and Rolling Stone) list them together, the tour's press release, via Universal Music Canada excludes them and notes them as separate events (headlining sets, stadium residencies). Whereas the announcement on March 26, 2025, was marked as the "official" tour announcement. And per Billboard, After a run of previously announced shows in April and May, Gaga’s first North American and European tour since her 2022 Chromatica Ball tour will open in the U.S. with a double-down in Las Vegas on July 16 and 18, two shows in Seattle, three nights at Madison Square Garden in New York and two-night runs in Miami, Toronto and Chicago. She will then play a run of arena dates across Europe from Sept. 29 through Nov. 20. and Mother Monster will gear up for the tour by headlining Coachella next month, followed by a pair of previously announced dates (April 26-27) at Estadio GNP Seguros in Mexico City, and some other already announced spring dates, including a free May 3 show on Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil and four nights at the National Stadium in Singapore on May 18, 18, 21 and 24. livelikemusic (TALK!) 13:35, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No one is suggesting that the early concerts were part of the Mayhem Ball. However, they represent an alternate version of the same show (all named The Art of Personal Chaos). For the sake of clarity and simplicity, the two could be merged into a single article, with the Mayhem Ball given its own section that highlights the specific changes. Sricsi (talk) 13:47, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Both have enough significant coverage via verifiable, reliable sources to stand on their own merits via their own articles. livelikemusic (TALK!) 13:51, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose this because they are two separate concerts in their entirety. While they might share the same themes, the outfits, visuals, and stage shape are all new for the Mayhem Ball. I do not support merging them. Carlo2026 (talk) 15:07, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatively, I would rename the Mayhem promotional concerts article to The Art of Personal Chaos and include a sub-section, The Mayhem Ball, with a link to the main article. Sricsi (talk) 15:11, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"The Art of Personal Chaos concerts" isn't anywhere near the WP:COMMONNAME of the tour. RachelTensions (talk) 22:42, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well, neither is “Mayhem promotional concerts” Carlo2026 (talk) 22:46, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

“Mayhem promotional concerts” refers to the Mayhem promotional concerts, not the tour. RachelTensions (talk) 22:59, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

These should absolutely not be merged. The other article covers Coachella and the Copacabana concert - which are notable enough on their own that they deserve their own separate article(s). The earlier concerts are not referred to or referenced as The MAYHEM Ball in promotional materials either Sweetcheeks123 (talk) 02:25, 16 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I support these 2 articles being combined with Mayhem Ball Tour being the main article, and Coachella and Mayhem Ball performances in Mexico City, Rio, and Singapore being added as subsections, as well as dates in the tour dates list. The total revenue should be added all together since it is all under the Mayhem Ball main tour/them all in support of the Mayhem album. 2600:1700:4261:C450:39ED:401B:612A:9A9B (talk) 03:55, 16 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DO NOT MERGE. The Mayhem Ball is NOT a "slightly updated version of the original gig". The stage, setlist, performances, venues, are all significantly different. The initial promotional concerts were individually announced concerts intended for music festivals and stadiums, whereas The Mayhem Ball is an official headlining tour primarily performed in arenas. Both shows are certainly distinct and notable enough to warrant separate articles. Also strongly oppose merging "The Mayhem Ball" (the official name of the tour, which makes it a WP:COMMONNAME) into "The Art of Personal Chaos concerts". TenthAvenueFreezeOut (talk) 13:51, 16 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose merging. The Mayhem promotional concerts article has substantial length and coverage, supported by extensive reviews, ticket sales reports, and city-specific details that are not directly related to The Mayhem Ball. Consolidating all that information into a single article would blur distinctions and reduce clarity.

While both share the Art of Personal Chaos theme, reliable sources and official press materials clearly differentiate between the standalone promotional events and the main tour. The former were individually billed concerts (Coachella, Copacabana Beach, Singapore National Stadium, etc.), and at the final Singapore show Gaga made remarks that were understood by many as signaling “the last concert” of that series — further suggesting a separation between them, even if not covered by published sources.

By contrast, The Mayhem Ball was announced later as the official arena tour, with new stage design, setlist, and production. Merging the two would not only create confusion but also contradict the way each project was originally presented and documented. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 23:52, 16 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Don't see a reason why this should be merged at all. Most promotional tours, like her Artrave or Dive Bar, have their own article. It would be the same, as including them with the Artpop Ball or Joanne World Tour articles. Doesn't make sense, both are two different things. Mirrored7 (talk) 00:25, 17 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I'm actually expanding the concert synopsis section, which is different from the promotional concerts. Bezarista Number One (talk) 16:22, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support; fundamentally these are the same shows with almost near similarity. Gaga's Coachella concert is not notable enough to warrant an article of its own; see Beychella for reference. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 06:00, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's not really accurate — there are major changes in production, visuals, setlist (from 20 to 27 songs plus piano moments and a different closing), and costumes between the early shows and The Mayhem Ball. And the 'promotional concerts' article isn't just about Coachella — it also covers Brazil, Mexico, and Singapore, all of which received local media coverage and analysis on their economic and cultural impact. Either way, merging them would remove well-sourced information and make the overall coverage less clear. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 15:04, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And who exactly said anything about removing information? Sricsi (talk) 15:48, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just here to mention that for some of us who are not so smart and glancing at the article for some quick info, and finding both the Promo shows and Mayhem Ball shows merged in one article might make some others think they are the same show, but almost different iterations. Carlo2026 (talk) 15:51, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also with the long break in between the promo concerts and mayhem ball concerts, (nearly two months) it can probably stand on its own as the choreography, visuals, set and stage design, and lots of other things such as new interlude music, and the mayhem ball show itself is longer by at least 45 minutes compared to the promo shows, because for most of those Gaga was performing as part of a festival, whereas mayhem ball is its own standalone tour. I think these should remain separate articles for the time being because they each have their own achievements. Carlo2026 (talk) 15:55, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Sricsi: Then what would be the purpose of merging them? It would result in two separate sections for background, critical response (already divided and sourced by region), setlist synopsis, commercial performance, and two distinct tables for dates. It would also require adding up figures from both the promotional events and the actual tour, even though the official boxscore and attendance totals are counted only from July onward. Combining them would artificially inflate the overall numbers to over 3 million attendees, which doesn’t accurately reflect the Mayhem Ball tour itself. Keeping them separate allows for clearer organization and avoids redundancy. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 15:57, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Carlo2026: Just a small correction — only Coachella was a festival. The Brazil show was free but not part of any festival, while Mexico and Singapore were standalone paid concerts by Gaga. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 15:58, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

if the articles are merged, information would almost certainly be removed from either side because otherwise the article would become very long and almost repetitive while describing each show. Carlo2026 (talk) 15:58, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that’s exactly the point. If certain details are identical, why repeat them? For example, the synopsis could start by describing the original show, and then highlight any changes within the same section. Of course, if something is unique to the tour, we wouldn’t remove that information. Sricsi (talk) 16:03, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For example, a user would come looking for the Mayhem Promo shows and find them under the main page titled “The Mayhem Ball” (I assume that is the one you want to merge the promo concerts into) which would immediately cause confusion. Carlo2026 (talk) 16:05, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Merging them would inevitably require removing or condensing a lot of well-sourced content, since each section (synopsis, set list, critical response, etc.) differs between the two. It would also force having two separate set lists with their own explanatory notes, and even unrelated sections like the bomb threat in Rio wouldn’t fit naturally within the Mayhem Ball context. Keeping them separate preserves clarity and relevance for both. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:06, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, I did not write that anywhere. The title would be The Art of Personal Chaos concerts, or something along those lines… as I wrote in my very first paragraph. Sricsi (talk) 16:24, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to name the promo shows The Art of Personal Chaos, that's fine — it would be a reasonable unifier since each concert had its own title and that would make it more coherent (as applied in other Wikipedias: Spanish and Portuguese). But not to describe the tour itself, which is called The Mayhem Ball. No one refers to the tour as The Art of Personal Chaos. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:48, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but also it would be “For the promo shows, How bad… was performed after die with a smile. For the mayhem ball, it is performed as the encore.” There would likely be a lot of for the promo this and for the mayhem ball that going on because there are too many differences. It would get boring and repetitive to a casual reader. Carlo2026 (talk) 16:07, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sricsi: That's not really accurate — even the song order changes significantly. For instance, How Bad Do You Want Me is song #15 in the promotional shows but the closing song (#27) in the Mayhem Ball, with new additions like LoveDrug and Applause in between. So we'd constantly have to clarify which version or act we're describing, which would make the synopsis confusing. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:12, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I agree with this necessary constant clarification if they were to be merged. It won’t be helpful to anyone and will basically entail having to rewrite the whole article. Carlo2026 (talk) 16:31, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also, if they're merged, how would we distinguish attendance and gross figures? TAPCC had around 2.8 million attendees (excluding Coachella, as noted), so merging would mean adding numbers that aren't sourced together with the tour's official figures. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 20:21, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think I’m seeing a lot more opposing than supporting. Carlo2026 (talk) 12:28, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This was already brought up back in March and didn't move forward (that time the Mayhem promotional concerts article's notability was also questioned). Now it's being raised again and, from what I see, most feedback's leaning negative once more. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 01:04, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose merge: Seem well written with WP:SIGCOV and above arguments. M. Billoo 01:43, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Given that over a month has passed since the proposal (September 14) and the discussion has drawn multiple participants, the consensus appears to lean strongly against merging (approximately 8 oppose vs 3 support). Most editors have pointed out that both Mayhem promotional concerts and The Mayhem Ball meet notability on their own and differ in scope, structure, and coverage. Unless new arguments or sources emerge, it seems reasonable to consider this discussion concluded with a consensus not to merge. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 15:59, 15 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Will someone remove the proposed merger template? Carlo2026 (talk) 16:07, 15 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Done — I've removed the merge tag, since the discussion has already run its course and the majority clearly opposes merging. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:35, 15 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you. First meaningful discussion I’ve participated in on a Wikipedia talk page 😅 Carlo2026 (talk) 16:39, 15 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Adding some links with reviews and show synopses from London (all rated 5/5), which could be useful to expand the "Critical reception" and "Concert synopsis" sections.

• Evening Standard: https://www.standard.co.uk/culture/music/lady-gaga-mayhem-ball-london-o2-review-b1250358.html
• BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn829pjr2mpo
• The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/reviews/lady-gaga-review-o2-arena-mayhem-ball-london-b2836270.html
• The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/30/lady-gaga-review-o2-arena-london-mayhem-ball
• The Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/concerts/lady-gaga-o2-arena-review/
• The i-Paper: https://inews.co.uk/culture/music/lady-gaga-mayhem-ball-utterly-magnificent-3946331
• HuffPost UK: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lady-gaga-mayhem-ball-tour-review_uk_68db925be4b003b6c8dbf358
• Financial Times: https://www.ft.com/content/8799f99d-02af-472c-932a-e580c3957397

CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 15:47, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bezarista Number One maybe these links can help with refs for the synopsis. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 15:48, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For the first few shows that she did play a piano song, they rotated between the four songs mentioned in the article. However, she recently played Speechless and Dance in the Dark on piano. This is making me think that possibly a table or list with the piano songs should be made. I know most of the dates were repeats, but seeing as there is more variation going into the London shows, I felt the need to make this request. Carlo2026 (talk) 21:41, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Already discussed why we are not doing that at Talk:The Mayhem Ball#Surprise Songs. We are unable to cover every single concert as there are simply no sources for all of them to confirm what was performed. Sricsi (talk) 22:05, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

those are different surprise songs. I'm talking about the fully acoustic piano songs, but I understand. Thank you. Carlo2026 (talk) 22:26, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is the same for those, as well: there are no sources for every single concert that confirm what was performed. Sricsi (talk) 22:28, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sharing a link that lists the surprise songs + piano songs from all the shows up until October 28. The idea is to keep adding sources and potentially use this in the future if more links keep coming up, plus the ones that already specify the date and the corresponding songs:

- Europa FM - What surprise songs will Lady Gaga perform at the Barcelona concerts? --CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 22:22, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And also, I’d like to ask, if someone could move the data that is currently there into a list format, so it is more visually soft on the eye when reading the notes? Because right now, it looks like a bunch of song names broken up by citations.

Or, if it’s possible, make the list and add all the sources at the end, unless there is a Wikipedia policy that states that citations must follow whatever content is being cited. Carlo2026 (talk) 13:27, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I didn't write the synopsis but I trimmed/rephrased some overly detailed parts without refs to make it more neutral and source-based. Would it now be reasonable to remove the cite-check tag? CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:52, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Medxvo Hi, could you please clarify which parts of the current "Concert synopsis" you believe are still unsupported? I recently added several sources (though some were later adjusted by others), and the section has changed quite a bit from this version to this one. I'd like to address any specific gaps you've noticed so we can resolve the tag properly. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 21:06, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, sorry, I didn't see this discussion before restoring the tag.

A few examples are 1) "After a short interlude, she performs "LoveGame", followed by "Alejandro" with male dancers. A choreography of "The Beast" concludes the act, incorporating a costume change and an electric guitar sequence." 2) "opens with Gaga in a black Elizabethan gown decorated with pink roses, emerging from a colossal skull to the rhythm of drum beats that lead into "Killah"." 3) "She then performs "Zombieboy" on a retractable staircase while the audience is broadcast on screens with green-eyed demon filters." 4) "She then walks the catwalk during "LoveDrug" before a shortened version of "Applause". The dress is gradually removed as "Just Dance" closes the act." 5) "declaring "Monsters never die"."... These are not mentioned in the sources at all, I believe. Other ones, like "The show continues with Act IV: Every Chessboard Has Two Queens, introduced by a Cirkut remix interlude of "Abracadabra" titled "Wake Her Up!", contradict their sources (the Stereogum source says that the remix is part of the third act not the fourth act).

These are just random examples, so I recommend checking other claims in the section as well. Medxvo (talk) 21:42, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect, I'll review those details and cross-check them with the sources — I'll either remove or replace them if I can't find reliable coverage. Thanks for pointing that out. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 22:33, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've reviewed the section thoroughly, adding and adjusting sources for the examples mentioned and several others. Since the synopsis is now well supported by reliable references, I've removed the cite-check tag. Further details can still be added later as new coverage emerges while the tour continues. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 19:18, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Both London and Manchester shows did not sell out per official box office report. https://ibb.co.com/99QKB8W4 KoolKid321 (talk) 20:16, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That link isn't a valid source — it's just an image hosting site, not an actual box office report or publication. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 20:23, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The sales as they are in this edit (which should stay while this discussion is happening, per WP:STONEWALL) are proper per Pollstar, and not some off-site hosted image (likely from the unreliable Touring Data) taken from a social media account. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:16, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And what's your source for you to claim these shows are sold out?? The screenshot are derivative third party source from Pollstar subscription site, it's an actual box office report. I have recently observed that this page is managed and overseen by die-hard fans who suppress any information that contradicts their views and violates Wikipedia's guidelines, as all content should be founded on neutral perspectives. WP:NPOV WP:NOTFANPAGE KoolKid321 (talk) 22:21, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You're contradicting yourself — that link isn't a verifiable source, and per your own comment, content must follow Wikipedia's sourcing guidelines. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 23:49, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The screenshot are derivative third party source from Pollstar subscription site, it's an actual box office report. No. It is not. It comes from the WordPress blog Touring Data, which is not a reliable source in any way, shape, or form (which has been pointed out to you prior in previous discussions).

I have recently observed that this page is managed and overseen by die-hard fans who suppress any information that contradicts their views and violates Wikipedia's guidelines, as all content should be founded on neutral perspectives. You have made false accusatory statements like this in prior interaction attempts, and it is unfounded, uncalled for, and also borderlines the encyclopedia's policy on no personal attacks (Comment on content, not on the contributor.)

The information as presented at present time is how it is within Pollstar's data cloud reporting. Only thing that should be updated is the citation's access-date. livelikemusic (TALK!) 03:33, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

On the set list's note section there is one bullet regarding the surprise songs played on piano during select dates. There already nine songs reported, and even though those are back supported by sources, it seems that if more songs are played in the future they would be eventually be added to said bullet by some editors. I think it should be trimmed and summarized. Bezarista Number One (talk) 23:40, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really see a problem with the current note. The songs listed are all supported by reliable sources, and similar formats are used in other tour articles — for example, The Eras Tour includes a table listing every surprise song performed in both 2023 and 2024. Having a short, sourced list here seems perfectly fine for now. If more songs are performed and documented later, we could eventually consider creating a dedicated table for them instead of trimming the note.CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 23:49, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

But the surprise songs during the Eras Tour were actually performed from the opening night until the very last one and within an specific act/main section of the concert.

In this case, the surprise songs have been only performed on select dates; if anything, a similar example could be found on the Radical Optimism Tour, where Dua Lipa has been covering a song by a local artist based on the country she is performing in, but even this case has been more consistent, as these covers have a determined placing on the second act since the first date of Lipa's 2025 schedule. Bezarista Number One (talk) 01:44, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The note already clarifies that these songs were only performed at select concerts, so I don't see any issue with keeping it as is. All entries are sourced and the list is concise enough for now. I'm also not sure if there are enough references for each specific date to structure it like Dua Lipa's Cover songs section, but we could revisit it later if more details become available. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 01:55, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So why is there a “this article is undergoing a major edit” template here? Carlo2026 (talk) 15:56, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Some users are currently archiving the references, so the template was added temporarily to avoid edit conflicts. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:14, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Both Billboard and Pollstar have added the promotional concerts to the mayhem Ball. We should merge them in here as well. Okelaaaaa (talk) 23:17, 17 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There was already a merge proposal of the Mayhem Ball with the promotional concerts, and the final consensus was do not merge, based on what Live Nation and Billboard stated earlier.

I think this means that the Mexico and Singapore shows should not be included as part of the Mayhem Ball box score. ~ WeNeverGoOutOfStyle (talk) 11:50, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Billboard has included the Singapore and Mexico shows to the mayhem ball Okelaaaaa (talk) 13:36, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to stop edit warring and get a clear concensus first. Sricsi (talk) 16:35, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Billboard and Pollstar have added Mexico and Singapore shows to the tour. We should too. Okelaaaaa (talk) 16:37, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There was already a merge discussion that resulted in a clear consensus not to merge.

However, Billboard has since updated its reporting and now includes the paid Mexico City and Singapore shows within The Mayhem Ball box score. This information was not available at the time of the original discussion.

This doesn't automatically reopen the merge question, but it may warrant revisiting how these concerts are reflected in terms of commercial performance and sourcing. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:41, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Both Billboard and Pollstar have added the Singapore and Mexico shows to the tour. They’re part of the tour and should be added in this Wikipedia page as well. Okelaaaaa (talk) 16:48, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is new information. Billboard's updated reporting changes the context compared to when the original merge discussion took place.

We can discuss again whether a merge is necessary, and more importantly how to reflect this in the article if the total figures are now being calculated by Billboard to include Coachella, Brazil, Mexico City, and Singapore. Any change should go through discussion first so we can reach a broader consensus. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:53, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I restored the old information since a new consensus hasn't been reached yet. I also think that, if anything, the inclusion of Coachella and Copacabana might be irrelevant (?) due to the only ticketed shows being the ones held in Mexico City and Singapore.

P.S. Okelaaaaa, please let's wait and do not add the promotional concerts until a new consensus is reached. ~ WeNeverGoOutOfStyle (talk) 19:21, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestion would be that the figures reported from the shows held in Mexico and Singapore be included only in the footnote of the info box (but not in the tour dates table), while stating that those previous shows are included in the tour's box score by Billboard and Pollstar.

For example, something like this:

Attendance: 1.06 million^[a]

1. ^ This figure is based on the 56 reported dates of the tour, including the promotional ticketed concerts previously held in Mexico City and Singapore, as stated by X (Billboard) or Y (Pollstar).

I also believe that Coachella and Rio are quite irrelevant in this article.- Bezarista Number One (talk) 20:09, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly disagree. Coachella and Copacabana are far more significant than Mexico City and Singapore in terms of media coverage and overall impact. If a merge is reconsidered, they should not be omitted, as they are core parts of the promotional concert run. If anything, a structure similar to The Monster Ball article could be considered, where the original and revised versions of the show are clearly distinguished in dedicated subsections. But that would still need to account for Coachella and Rio, not exclude them.--CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 20:16, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestion is to keep both articles but only include the figures of Mexico and Singapore in this one. In my opinion, there is no need to merge both articles. - Bezarista Number One (talk) 20:26, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this suggestion. Maybe the footnote would need a little bit of clarification, e.g.,

Attendance: 1.06 million^[a]

I think a merge is the best option.

They’re all part of Mayhem, it’s the same show and now the biggest tabloids have added them to the tour.

Singapore and Mexico shows should be added in the tour table section and add a different section for the Coachella and Copacabana shows. Okelaaaaa (talk) 02:45, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Billboard and Live Nation reported earlier that the promotional concerts were not part of the tour. Just because the figures from Mexico and Singapore are included now doesn't mean that both articles should be merged/renamed; the Coachella and Rio shows are not even mentioned as part of the box score due to being part of a festival set and a free access concert, and let's not forget that each concert was titled differently and in disparate languages. A footnote in the info box like the one proposed by WeNeverGoOutOfStyle and more detailed information in the Commercial performance section is the most appropriate approach at this point. - Bezarista Number One (talk) 02:17, 20 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

WeNeverGoOutOfStyle (talk) 21:25, 18 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree on merging, and considering this article now includes Billboard's numbers in the intro and commercial section ("As of 2025, The Mayhem Ball was the highest-grossing pop tour by a female artist of the year and the second-highest overall, grossing $166 million from 35 shows.[7]"), excluding the Mexico and Singapore shows that these refer to doesn't make sense. Whether a separate article makes sense specifically for Coachella & Copacobana as festival and free concerts respsetively, is another issue.SpearsRR (talk) 12:20, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My original proposal when I opened the discussion earlier about a merge was to create an article called The Art of Personal Chaos or The Art of Personal Chaos concerts, because both the Mayhem Ball dates and the preceding concerts share the same name for the show. The Mayhem Ball keeps many of the elements from the earlier shows, and expands on it with a few extra songs and new costumes. Sricsi (talk) 12:27, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. The Mayhem Ball is the official name of the tour and should remain the article title. The Art of Personal Chaos refers to the show concept used for the promotional concerts, not the tour itself, and is not the WP:COMMONNAME for the tour.

While the two share thematic elements, reliable sources and official branding consistently distinguish The Mayhem Ball as the tour. Renaming or subsuming it under The Art of Personal Chaos would create confusion rather than clarity. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 16:35, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

“The Art of Personal Chaos refers to the show concept used for the promotional concerts” is not entirely accurate. The tour’s shows themselves are also referred to by this title, and the same wording appears at the beginning of the performances. This distinction is is also incorrectly presented in the Mayhem album article; as currently worded, it implies that only the pre–Mayhem Ball shows carried this title, which does not fully reflect how it is used in the performances. Sricsi (talk) 17:44, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It functions as the title of the show or "work" presented on stage, not as the name of the tour itself. The performances were also referred to with other on-screen titles such as Mayhem in the Desert or Mayhem on the Beach, which further shows these are thematic labels rather than official tour names.

Can you point to any reliable source that refers to The Mayhem Ball tour as The Art of Personal Chaos as its official name? CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 17:52, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t think any journalist is actually referring to the tour by that title; the same applies to the preceding shows as well. It is simply the title Gaga herself gave to the narrative. The tour was an expanded version of that earlier narrative. I’m fine with keeping the two articles separate—we already discussed this—but as the issue has resurfaced because of the Billboard article, I was chiming in that this would probably be the only way they could be combined into one article.

And my only point is that your comment (“The Art of Personal Chaos refers to the show concept used for the promotional concerts”) is inaccurate, since the tour shows also used the same title card and narrative. At the moment, this is not reflected in either this article or the Mayhem album article. Sricsi (talk) 18:02, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Example from this article: “The costumes for the Mayhem Ball extended on the aesthetic first introduced during The Art of Personal Chaos,”.

This sentence makes no sense, as it implies that the pre-tour shows had this in-concert title, while the tour’s shows did not, which is not correct. Sricsi (talk) 18:26, 19 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So considering most agree that we should include the Singapore and Mexican shows since we're referencing boxscore sources that do, shall the article be updated? SpearsRR (talk) 16:54, 31 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes Okelaaaaa (talk) 04:11, 1 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I fear this statement is false. No consensus exists; only six people discussed it, and Bezarista Number One, CHr0m4tiko0, and I disagreed with merging the articles based solely on box score reports. Bezarista Number One and I agreed on including them but in the infobox footnote, since Billboard clearly stated on September 29, 2025, that the Mexico City and Singapore shows weren't part of the tour: "Those totals don't include Gaga's international dates prior to the proper tour's kick-off (…) grossed $56.6 million and sold over 300,000 tickets."

Could you please (Okelaaaaa) provide the sources of the latest reports from Billboard or Pollstar that officially include those previous figures in the totaled box score? Those are needed to include the Mexico City and Singapore numbers, at least as a footnote. And by the way, please stop adding the Coachella and Rio de Janeiro shows in the tour dates table; those weren't ticketed shows and consequently do not alter the attendance and revenue figures at all. ~ WeNeverGoOutOfStyle (talk) 20:01, 4 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.billboard.com/lists/top-pop-tours-2025/lady-gaga-23/ Okelaaaaa (talk) 02:06, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the Pollstar reference too, which run from Mexico and Singapore through to the Belgian date in early November before their annual cut-off: https://news.pollstar.com/2025/12/15/transforming-into-the-mistress-of-mayhem-lady-gagas-mayhem-ball-lands-at-no-9-on-worldwide-top-tours/ ~2026-11662-4 (talk) 16:10, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, per the community-built consensus, which took place in September and October of last year, the promotional concerts are not to be merged with this topic. And based on this discussion, it seems that decision still stands, despite what has been reported by both Billboard and Pollstar, both of which do tend to merge events together. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:01, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Then I suggest every incidence of reporting of the commercial performance and ticket sales in the article from Billboard or Pollstar have notes to indicate they include numbers from concerts that editors on this article have decided to omit. Right now both the introduction and commercial sections have these numbers, and it will only appear more ridiculous when final tallies for the tour come in from both sources and do not align with the rest of the article. SpearsRR (talk) 15:24, 10 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Therefore, further clarification in both the infobox footnote and in the commercial performance section is more appropriate; the merging of both articles is unnecessary.

→ My suggestion for the footnote is:

Attendance: 1.3 million^[a]

Box office: $287.3 million^[a]

→ while the content in the commercial performance section could be presented as follows:

The six ticketed promotional concerts previously held in Mexico City and Singapore were initially not included by Billboard and Pollstar,[2] with both publications adding their respective figures later as part of the Mayhem Ball tour box score, incorporating the $56.6 million grossed from an audience of 300,000.[1][[3] ~ WeNeverGoOutOfStyle (talk) 17:52, 11 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I agree this works, assuming the Mexican and Singapore shows are listed in the Tour Dates section with a similar footnote SpearsRR (talk) 13:45, 12 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Should those concerts be listed in the Tour Dates section, though? It might be more appropriate to include (another) footnote to the total revenue statistics, highlighting the fact that the total figures displayed on the shows table match the corresponding 87 tour dates, and in that instance the Mexico and Singapore shows are not incorporated as such. - Bezarista Number One (talk) 16:02, 12 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Then why change the article at all? If the totals will differ from the two accepted sources for touring data (Billboard and Pollstar) which are used throughout the article, it's better to just stick a footnote at every single mention of revenue, ticket sales, etc. with a note that editors of this article have elected to omit these shows resulting in the discrepancy. I would argue this is by far the worst option but it's clear no consensus is getting reached here.SpearsRR (talk) 13:13, 13 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Some editors have been reluctant to include the revenue from the promotional concerts and solely report them in footnotes because both Billboard and Pollstar tend to merge figures of the same artist on their end-year reports. As an example, Bad Bunny embarked on two different concert tours in 2022: El Último Tour del Mundo, which was held in arenas throughout North America and grossed $116.8 million, and the World's Hottest Tour, an all-stadium tour that took place in the Americas and which grossed $314.4 million. Billboard merged the revenue of both tours and reported a total of $435, because they also included three Puerto Rico shows in July 2022 that were not a proper part of either of his two tours. See the reports here.

The merging of the articles covering the promotional concerts and the Mayhem Ball is actually the worst option so far, as most sources cite them distinctly. Regarding the addition of the figures of Mexico City and Singapore, it seems that once again Billboard and Pollstar have merged distinct show figures and have included those dates on their reports of Gaga's annual revenue activity instead of considering them as part of the tour. The footnotes are the most suitable edit proposals in the case of them being officially reported as part of the tour, and I even consider that we should wait to see how the upcoming reports will be published, specifically whether the promotional concerts are still included in the proper tour revenue or if they are excluded as they were in previous reports (like the one published in September 2025). - Bezarista Number One (talk) 15:32, 13 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

"Including pre-tour stops in Mexico City and Singapore, Gaga closed out 2025 with $286.1 million and 1.4 million tickets sold".

It is officially settled. Billboard included the promotional concerts within Gaga's end-year reports but not as part of the tour, which means that those figures must not be added, included, or merged (cc: @Okelaaaaa, @SpearsRR), and I even consider that the infobox footnote should be removed as well. @CHr0m4tiko0, you're the most active editor on this page; should the said footnote still be included? Bezarista Number One (talk) 14:44, 30 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not CHr0m4tiko0 but in my opinion the infobox footnote should be kept to avoid any further confusion about the proper tour's box score and the promotional concerts. - Bichota B (talk) 16:28, 3 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The shows in Mexico and Singapore should be added for a full boxscore. Both billboard and Pollstar have included them. Okelaaaaa (talk) 16:12, 28 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

One of Lady Gaga's newest songs - The Dead Dance should the added to the setlist of The Mayhem Ball between the songs Zombieboy and LoveDrug. She performs the song every night of the tour. C4llm4savo (talk) 14:25, 19 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

•  Not done. The setlist as shown is specifically documenting one particular concert appearance, not all of them. If you have a published source describing "The Dead Dance" as being added later, perhaps that fact can be mentioned elsewhere in the page. Binksternet (talk) 14:50, 19 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

  "The Dead Dance" is already mentioned in the Setlist section under Notes, as a later addition. The set list above is based on the opening night in Las Vegas. Sricsi (talk) 17:21, 19 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]