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Is this category actually correct? The "TERF" label is mostly used facetiously by many women, many of whom are not radical feminists. 89.242.181.99 (talk) 15:17, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I propose that the second paragraph in the transgender views section to be worded like this with these citations since it is currently worded in a biased way:
Actually, I can see an issue with the current wording. It states that Forstater made "anti-trans" statement. That fails NPOV and probably BLP, as Forstater went on to win her tribunal, and her conduct was not found to be discriminatory. It should probably be "allegedly anti-trans" or "statements considered to be anti-trans". I am sure someone can come up with better wording, but it really should be changed. Daff22 (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have just read through the case article, and Forstater's own article, neither of which label her views as "anti-trans". There is definitely a BLP issue here. It should probably read made "gender-critical statements", with an added caveat "which some considered anti-trans", of editors prefer. Sources wise, the NY Times article doesn't refer to Forstater as "anti-trans" (only in the headline, which obviously doesn't count), but I don't have access to the Whited source to know how that describes her. However, given the outcome of the case, it really would seem like a BLP violation. Daff22 (talk) 10:58, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean? This is in the BBC source: Ms Forstater believes trans women holding certificates that recognise their transgender identity cannot describe themselves as women. That seems clearly to be saying Forstater's views are anti-trans to me. Loki (talk) 20:50, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Except this is not 'sticking to the facts" it is assigning a non-neutral POV label to a BLP. Labelling Forster "anti-trans" in the context of her court case implies that her behaviour was discriminatory. The courts did not find this to be the case, in fact they found the opposite, with her being the one discriminated against. Per WP:BLPSTYLE, Do not label people with contentious labels, loaded language, or terms that lack precision, unless a person is commonly described that way in reliable sources. Your "clearly" is a POV interpretation, and not how Wikipedia articles should be written. Daff22 (talk) 08:05, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Her behavior was transphobic. The original court case found that and we have plenty of reliable sources backing that up, such as CBS, PinkNews, and the NYT.
Like, this is a pretty straightforward interpretation of what she said. It really shouldn't surprise you that I was able to easily find sources saying so in those words. Loki (talk) 17:29, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All three of those articles are following the origin hearing, which the subsequent appeal and merits hearing found to have mischaracterised Forstater's views. And the NYT article does not label her as anti trans or transphobic beyond the headline, which again is discounted when considering use as a source on Wikipedia. This isn't about interpretation, it is about factual representation, and BLP. I agree with the recent change made to the article, per my previous suggestion.Daff22 (talk) 23:05, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
She won the tribunal case on appeal, as mentioned by Daff22. The CBS and NYT articles were written before the appeal was lodged, and PinkNews isn't exactly a reliable source on this issue. TBicks (talk) 19:22, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You linked to two articles written before her (successful) appeal was lodged, and one article by a biased publication on this particular topic. Not exactly gold standard source material. TBicks (talk) 07:14, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Pinknews is green at WP:RSP and the dates of these articles don't matter. A court saying her opinion is protected doesn't make it not transphobic. Loki (talk) 16:17, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
WP:RSP green doesn't mean it should be used with impunity. The nature of the publication means that it has obvious bias here, which should be given due weight. WP:RSP itself states that caution should be used for PinkNews.
If they were basing their usage of that label on the finding of the tribunal, the dates absolutely do matter. There's an easy litmus test for that: look at the language used in RS before and after the successful appeal. I'm yet to see you provide an example of her being called these labels after the appeal in RSs. TBicks (talk) 01:05, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Overly Detailed
Am I crazy for thinking this page is overly detailed, especially in regard to her 'Life and Career'? It reads like someone watched a movie on her and inserted the whole thing straight into her Wikipedia page. Comparing with authors of similar note, Ursula K. Le Guin, J. R. R. Tolkien leaves a lot still on the table still.EVorpahl (talk) 05:42, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's been a natural increase in reporting on the lives of celebrities in recent decades, and she wrote the best selling book series in history. So i'm sure it's just a consequence of there being more known about her life than equally successful writers of different eras. TBicks (talk) 19:26, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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