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A hyperlink to this article should be added to the mention of Aram

-- FLIPPINGOUT (talk) 22:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the foreign relations section, kindly add armenia-india relations along with the others and india has emerged as one of the leading partners of armenia in a similar way to the US, russia or iran. Thank you for considering my request. General Phoenix (talk) 13:20, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Largoplazo (talk) 13:34, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @Largoplazo reverted my edit.

I understand that there were previous discussions on this topic but I don't understand the outcome nor do I understand the discrepancy with Georgia and Azerbaijan. For Georgia (country) we have: Georgia[c] is a country in Eastern Europe and West Asia. citing the Encyclopædia Britannica, Caucasus:

"One widely accepted scheme draws the dividing line along the crest of the Greater Caucasus range, putting the portion of the region north of the line in Europe and the portion south of it in Asia. Another puts the western portion of the Caucasus region in Europe and the eastern part (the bulk of Azerbaijan and small portions of Armenia, Georgia, and Russia’s Caspian Sea coast) in Asia. Still another scheme identifies the Aras River and the Turkish border as the line of continental demarcation, thereby locating Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia in Europe."

This quote is also cited in Boundaries_between_the_continents#Modern_definition with The international geographic community has never reached a universal agreement on continental borders, especially with regard to the Caucasus region between the Black and Caspian seas

For Azerbaijan: a transcontinental and landlocked country at the boundary of West Asia and Eastern Europe. citing various sources.

So if there's no international consensus regarding the Europe/Asia border and if reliable sources put Armenia in Europe and/or Asia, why is the consensus here different? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 13:27, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There is no universal agreement, which there won't be for something that's a matter of convention, but generally the Caucasus crest is the given border. It is for example the border Britannica uses as the default (and they used to use the Kuma–Manych Depression, further north). CMD (talk) 15:17, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CON at Talk:Europe dictates that the three countries of the Caucasus can be placed in both Europe and Asia respectively, based on the geographical or geopolitical definition being used. For consistency purposes, and to adhere to existing consensus, the short description should be updated to include Eastern Europe. Archives908 (talk) 15:30, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's not how CON works, that's WP:OSE. CMD (talk) 15:36, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean WP:OTHERCONTENT? WP:OSE is about whether an article should exist (which I'm just now discovering, and scratching my head because I'm remembering that it also used to be about content; and now I'm seeing a complex history of retargeting and moves that possibly have led to WP:OSE no longer leading to commentary that it used to lead to). Largoplazo (talk) 16:12, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, that September 2021 rfd has a lot to answer for. CMD (talk) 01:47, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Setting aside my previous comment, I never figured it to apply to whether articles should be consistent over their treatment of something for which consensus has been developed somewhere. Saying something it's OK to have something in article B because it's in article A is one thing when it could be just as wrong in article A; but if there was consensus to have article A the way it is, that makes the argument for article B a little stronger, it seems to me. If we want a more formal overarching consensus about Wikipedia not contradicting itself from article to article on this point, maybe it's time for an RFC. Largoplazo (talk) 16:16, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Only RS matter. And RS say that 1/ Armenia is geographically in Asia (most widely accepted definition), Europe, or across both and 2/ Armenia views itself as part of Europe and is considered geopolitically European. The short description "Country in West Asia and Europe" would accurately represent this. Wdyt? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 09:50, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, no universal agreement, that's why the article should mention in the lede that some sources also consider Armenia as part of Europe (not only geopolitically). As noted in the CIA World Factbook: Armenia views itself as part of Europe. Also, the article is in Category:Countries in Europe. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:07, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The official website of the Armenian Ministry of Foreign Affairs states clearly that geographically:

The country is situated in western part of Asia, occupies the north-eastern part of Armenian plateau – between Caucasus and Nearest Asia

That is the consensus on the geographical position of Armenia, what you are talking about is geopolitical affiliation with Europe which is already reflected in the lede, geographically however Armenia is entirely situated in Asia and this is recognized by the Armenian government, we should not be confusing geopolitics with actual geography. TagaworShah (talk) 13:54, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

1. We use secondary RS. The MFA website is not one.

2. Britannica says that sources put Armenia in Asia, Europe or both.

3. CIA World Factbook: "Armenia views itself as part of Europe"

4. If the short description says "Country in West Asia and Europe" it does not mean "Country geographically in West Asia and Europe".

5. The page is already in the category "Countries in Europe" so for consistency the short description should match. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:14, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed- what a government "believes" is not the point here. The point is that there are other geographical definitions which do include Armenia either entirely or partially in Europe. The short description should be updated to reflect that. Archives908 (talk) 14:18, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are myriad different proposed borders, we do not need to reflect them all given there is a common one. CMD (talk) 15:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with CMD, the most widely accepted geographical designations put Armenia in Asia, this is also reflected in majority of secondary sources and consensus, I just mentioned the MFA to refute the allegation that Armenia considers itself geographically in Europe. The CIA also states that Armenia is often considered part of the Middle East yet that’s not included, so I don’t see why we should include other geographical designations that don’t match the widespread consensus. TagaworShah (talk) 15:37, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also the CIA world factbook states clearly that Armenia is geographically in Asia despite what it considers itself to be or its geopolitical position, in fact they label it as Central Asia in the title and Southwestern Asia in the geography section. TagaworShah (talk) 15:42, 2 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The CIA mentions this about the geopolitical affiliation. RS say about Armenia that it is:

• Part of Europe (geographically), with other RS saying Asia or across both
• Part of Europe (geopolitically)
• Self-identified as European

All of this is mentioned and sources in the article. So the short description should be aligned with the body and RS. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 15:37, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is aligned, in its weight and intent. There is a broader question as to how geographic location serves the purpose of "complement and clarify the page title", but that doesn't seem to be the one being raised. CMD (talk) 15:41, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Still not consistent with the categories. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 09:19, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Under "Demographics/Religion" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia#Religion), there is a picture of a monastery and Mount Ararat. The caption currently says: "The 7th-century Khor Virap monastery in the shadow of Mount Ararat, the peak on which Noah's Ark, is said to have landed during the biblical flood." The comma after "Noah's Ark" should be removed for grammatical reasons. Ironox1 (talk) 21:09, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Mellk (talk) 21:15, 1 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]