— Maile (talk) 00:02, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

	The Writer's Barnstar
	For excellent work in the completion of George H. Brown (judge). BD2412 T 02:28, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	Thank you for *all* the help on the Maryland Military and Naval Academy. Naraht (talk) 06:28, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		This barnstar is awarded to Rublamb for copy edits totaling over 60,000 words (including bonus and rollover words) during the GOCE March 2023 Backlog Elimination Drive. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Dhtwiki (talk) 03:22, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

	The Copyeditor's Barnstar
	Thank for the work you did a while back on Jim McBride (songwriter). So much better! S0091 (talk) 22:48, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article St. Anthony Hall you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:St. Anthony Hall for comments about the article, and Talk:St. Anthony Hall/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Argenti Aertheri -- Argenti Aertheri (talk) 01:23, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article Henry M. Crane you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Henry M. Crane for comments about the article, and Talk:Henry M. Crane/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of M4V3R1CK32 -- M4V3R1CK32 (talk) 00:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article Carl A. Schenck you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Carl A. Schenck for comments about the article, and Talk:Carl A. Schenck/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Vortex3427 -- Vortex3427 (talk) 22:03, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was he an honorary member or a founder of one of the Forestry honor or professional societies? Jax MN (talk) 22:53, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting question. I'll have to check on both Schenck and Frederick E. Olmsted. Rublamb (talk) 23:43, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article Frederick E. Olmsted you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Frederick E. Olmsted for comments about the article, and Talk:Frederick E. Olmsted/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Esculenta -- Esculenta (talk) 23:01, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You are recipient no. 2888 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:12, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, Rublamb, and welcome to Women in Red. It's good to see you intend to spend more of your editing time writing about women. Given your wide interests and your high standard of editing, you are likely to be a useful member of the project. In addition to your continuing work on lists, it would be good to see you creating more biographies of women. If you have not already done so, you might find it useful to look through our Primer. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 08:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I very much appreciate all the effort you put into the article I started. Thanks for your detective work and discrete handling of “questions about some of the unsourced text.” You citing that source and paraphrasing the Wikipedia text is an excellent solution. Best, BananaSlug (talk) 19:22, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article Richard Urquhart Goode you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Richard Urquhart Goode for comments about the article, and Talk:Richard Urquhart Goode/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of APK -- APK (talk) 04:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

		Women in Green Editathon October '23
		At last – here is your barnstar! Thank you for your excellent contributions to GA nomination Isabelle Urquhart at the WiG "Around the World in 31 Days" Good Article editathon. I was really impressed by the communication/collaboration and conflict management skills you showcased during the work for this article. Best, Alanna the Brave (talk) 17:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

	The Original Barnstar
	For your excellent research and expansion of Karen L. Parker. Thank you! Beccaynr (talk) 16:35, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Schwede66 00:02, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RoySmith (talk) 00:02, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I really appreciate the work you're putting in on this article. Central and Adams (talk) 17:18, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article George Carnegie Palmer you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:George Carnegie Palmer for comments about the article, and Talk:George Carnegie Palmer/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Grungaloo -- Grungaloo (talk) 22:22, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article Richard Sharp Smith you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Richard Sharp Smith for comments about the article, and Talk:Richard Sharp Smith/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Grungaloo -- Grungaloo (talk) 00:02, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article J. Cleaveland Cady you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:J. Cleaveland Cady for comments about the article, and Talk:J. Cleaveland Cady/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Unexpectedlydian -- Unexpectedlydian (talk) 10:42, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please remember to add a sort key for the category which is the Lists. So instead of List of Omega Chi Epsilon chapters having [[Category:Lists of chapters of Association of College Honor Societies members by society]], it should have [[Category:Lists of chapters of Association of College Honor Societies members by society|Omega Chi Epsilon]] . Hotcat allows for adding the |Omega Chi Epsilon Let me know if you want me to fix.Naraht (talk) 17:53, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Naraht: Didn't know that was a thing. Thanks for letting me know. And you are welcome to fix anything you find. I barely remember to add the default sort to the article. Rublamb (talk) 21:54, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rublamb made the change.Naraht (talk) 22:26, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article Reggie Barnes (skateboarder) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Reggie Barnes (skateboarder) for comments about the article, and Talk:Reggie Barnes (skateboarder)/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Arconning -- Arconning (talk) 03:03, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article George Willis Pack you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:George Willis Pack for comments about the article, and Talk:George Willis Pack/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Rollinginhisgrave -- Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 00:41, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations, I hope you nominate this for DYK and keep going. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 00:44, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

	The Special Barnstar
	Thank you for the work you're doing to improve List of words with the suffix -ology. As you likely know from the Talk page discussion, I thought it was in pretty sad shape. I appreciate the amount of effort you're putting into cleaning it up! DonIago (talk) 13:34, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for more quality content! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:41, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Rublamb, I’m sending this through my phone so I apologize for any formatting issues. I was wondering if you by any chance knew where we could find a reference for the founding date of the original ‘’Sigma Iota Alpha’’ that was founded at LSU? As we have listed it listed on a page somewhere but there’s no reference on there. I’ll see if I can find any old yearbooks that mention them.

Also thanks for the work you do. DovahDuck (talk) 21:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's my next step--looking for sources. It is listed in the Almanac of Fraternities and Sororities, maintained by the University of Illinois, but only give a founding date of 1904. I am also going to see what I can find in newspapers. Rublamb (talk) 23:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you mean Sigma Iota? If so, I have added sources and have also fixed some text that was copied from a website.. I have no idea where the specific date (not just the year) came from. Rublamb (talk) 04:19, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, in 1939, after the break up of the Union Latino Americana the Chapter of Phi Iota Alpha of the University of Louisiana withdrew from the Fraternity and, in April 1939, founded Sigma Iota Alpha. "Since Phi Sigma Alpha was organized in Puerto Rico with ideals similar to those of the Sigma Iota Alpha in Louisiana, and since both organizations were the product of almost identical former brotherhoods, negotiations were immediately started to merge the two brotherhoods into one. This was decided in a convention celebrated on September 10, 1939, at the University of Puerto Rico, organizing themselves as "Fraternidad Sigma" (Sigma Fraternity) with two ramifications: Phi Sigma Alpha Zone in Puerto Rico and Sigma Iota Alpha Zone in Louisiana (Later the USA Zone's name was changed to Phi Sigma Beta Zone and came to include other universities in north Louisiana)." El Johnson (talk) 13:14, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Eljohnson15 @DovahDuck: I will see if I can find a source for this. If you know of one, please let me know. Please give me a couple of days to circle back to this. Rublamb (talk) 23:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is now addressed. Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns. Rublamb (talk) 01:53, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I was able to find various sources. I recommend looking at the various yearbooks of LSU and other institutions where these organizations have been historically active. I have had heard before about how some of these organizations are interconnected but various yearbooks actually feature the chapters outright confirming different bits of information. Best of luck to both of y'all as we continue contributing to the articles of these organizations! Let me know if y'all are ever interested in forming a subcommittee dedicated to multicultural Greek lettered organizations within the Fraternity & Sorority Wiki Project. DovahDuck (talk) 06:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DovahDuck: I have already been through most of the yearbooks available online for Sigma Alpha and was able to document all chapters. I believe (but cannot prove) that Sigma Alpha's predecessor went dormant before the fraternity formed--it stopped being included in the LSU yearbook for a couple of years before the Sigma Alpha was established. We also need a source other than the Sigma Iota Alpha website to document its link with Sigma Iota and Phi Iota Alpha.

I don't know if we need a subcommittee for WP:F&S. There are only three of us who are reguar contributors and all are interested in inclusivity and diviersity. Another WP member has already sent an updated Sigma Alpha chapter list to the University of Illinois Almanac; their multi-cultural information is often lacking. However, the WP really need editors who can help with Spanish language sources for PR and Philippines GLOs. Or, at least, to translate PDFs of newspaper articles from time to time. Many PR and PH articles were victims of AfD because WP members could not find translatable secondary sources. Rublamb (talk) 06:44, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Rublamb, I was talking about the Sigma Iota Alpha Fraternity which was founded by dissociated members of Phi Iota Alpha and then became a part of Phi Sigma. There’s a secondary source mentioning this and it can be seen by looking at the yearbooks and seeing the two undergrad members that transferred. In regards to making a committee, you bring a valid point but if we get more editors who can translate Spanish and Filipino it could be something to consider. Will be busy for the next week or so but I should hopefully be able to contribute a little bit more towards the middle of the month. DovahDuck (talk) 06:52, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Native Spanish speaker here, let me know if you guys need any help with that. History of Sigma Iota is this, the chapter withdrew from Phi Iota at the same time as Phi SIgma Alpha from the Union. 2. The formed Sigma Iota as a new fraternity 3. they joined Phi Sigma and rearanged as Sigma Fraternity with Phi Sigma Alpha Zone in PR and Sigma Iota Alpha Zone in LSU. 3. Sigma Iota ZOne had a Beta chapter in DC. 4. The Zone was renamed Phi Sigma Beta, 5. The Zones were eliminated and chapters in PR and USA continued as Phi Sigma Alpha. Found another some sources from El Mundo newspaper (at the time the biggest in Puerto RIco that mention Sigma Iota in Luisiana:

• https://gpa.eastview.com/crl/elmundo/?a=d&d=mndo19400420-01.1.8&srpos=2&e=-------en-25--1--img-txIN-%22Sigma+Iota+Alpha%22--------- (center article)
• https://gpa.eastview.com/crl/elmundo/?a=d&d=mndo19531128-01.1.8&srpos=1&e=-------en-25--1--img-txIN-%22Sigma+Iota+Alpha%22--------- The Beta chaper of the Zone was in Washington DC
• https://gpa.eastview.com/crl/elmundo/?a=d&d=mndo19550517-01.1.8&srpos=3&e=-------en-25--1--img-txIN-%22Sigma+Iota+Alpha%22---------

El Johnson (talk) 13:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DovahDuck:& Rumblanb, I found a scaned copy of Phi Sigma ALphas 1950 yearbook. Page 43 is about Sigma iota Alpha. It was founded in February 4, 1939 by the LSU Chapter of Phi Iota ALpha, specificaly mentiones, Belisario Caicedo, Angel Hernández, Jose Dávila Valdejulli, Enrique González Caicedo, Madison Fletcher & José F. Bosch. In September 10, 1939, thoy merge with Phi Sigma Alpha and became Sigma Iota Alpha Zone of Sigma Fraternity, in 1941 in estabiched a Beta Chapter in Baltimore and in November 24, 1949 another in DC.~~

I really enjoy your contributions to Sigma Iota and Phi Lambda Alpha, I just don't understand why you would go out of your way to eliminate any reference to Phi Sigma Alpha in both of them. Phi Sigma has been mentioned in the Phi Lambda Alpha article since 14 April 14, 2007 (one day after the article was created) and in the Sigma Iota April 10, 2007 (second edit and same day article was created. Both Phi Iota and Phi Sigma share a common bond in its history and heritage, and editors have contributed to both the main articles and the related ones such as these and the Union Latino Americana. I look forward to working with you. El Johnson (talk) 13:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Eljohnson15: I was not picking on Phi Sigma Alpha. Rather, I deleted an unsourced sentence. In addition, it lacked context. That is, an explanation as to how the organizations were connected. If you know of a source that can be used for this content, I am more than willing to take a look. Rublamb (talk) 23:36, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found the source you added--thanks! I was able to update the text to better explain the relationship in both articles. Take and look and see if that meets your expectations. Rublamb (talk) 01:53, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. Yet I would not say it it the way it was phrased since Phi Sigma Alpha is also a successor of both organizations (You took out Phi Sigma as a successor of Phi Lambda in the infobox. There is a shared history of both fraternities until the dissolution of the Union Latino Americana, members of all those predecessor organizations became part of Phi Sigma after the break up, one example is Luis A. Ferre who joined initially Phi Lambda in MIT El Johnson (talk) 14:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We are working on making the instructions clearer, but WP Fraternities and Sororities has a specific way of using the fields in Infobox fraternity, based on the terminology established by Baird's Manual. In this case, successor means the name used directly after the Merger that ended the fraternity. In addition, a merger is an official action, taken by the governing bodies of two or more fraternities or chapters (as opposed to individual members). Sometimes you will see a couple of names in the successor field because not all of the chapters joined the same fraternity at the time of its dissolution. Since Phi Sigma Alpha formed several years after Sigma Iota and Phi Lambda Alpha merged (and went defunct) and was not created by an official act of the governing bodies of Sigma Iota or Phi Lambda Alpha, it is not a successor in the way this field is used. This does not diminish Phi Sigma Alpha's rich history; it just means that the Infobox is best suited for a quick summary, rather than complex details. @Jax MN, can you take a look at this to see if I am missing something? Rublamb (talk) 17:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you nailed it. We worked for some time to determine how best to handle this in the infobox. Merger partners are legal successors. Inactive chapters at the time of merger, if being reestablished, will typically continue into the successor fraternity as if they had been part of the merger and will take up a name designation that had been reserved for them, OR in the style or series that the merger partner had been using. Where chapters of two merging fraternities are present on a single campus, one may be absorbed by another, OR one may be "officially released" to join another national or go local. We call these two situations a Withdrawal. In some cases a chapter may Withdraw at THEIR sole discretion. The former national then has little say in the matter. Due to anti-poaching agreements or anti-poaching sensibilities, in the modern era (post-NIC) we hardly ever see withdrawals directly into a new national without a specific release agreement. Rather, these "go local" and a few years later they may join a second national. I do not know of a closure of a national which has negotiated a merger into TWO successor merger partners. One is always the first, or leading recipient, while others may pick up one or more lagging chapters. This typically happens when chapters of both proposed merger partners have an active, healthy presence on a campus, and which choose not to merge with each other.

Finally, we sometimes note that some chapters, or members of stray chapters are released as individual persons to join another chapter. As a blanket word, when this has occurred with multiple chapters and is not a "one-off" situation, we note this as "Scattered" in the infobox, as well as in the chapter list. All such situations are handled as fields and/or notes against the line for that chapter in a chapter list, and as you said, such detailed treatment is not suitable for the infobox. Jax MN (talk) 19:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, you linked Sigma Delta Alpha in both articles now, yet as noted at the top of the article for said organization (This article is about the fraternity established in 1992. For the fraternity founded as (ΣΔΑ) at the University of Puerto Rico in 1928, see Phi Sigma Alpha.) The wording as modified is incorrect. A more accurate wording could be this:

In 1934 graduate members of former Sigma Iota, Phi Lambda Alpha, and current Phi Iota Alpha in Puerto Rico, joined Puerto Rican fraternity Sigma Delta Alpha, and reorganized the latter as Phi Sigma Alpha.[User:Eljohnson15|El Johnson]] (talk) 13:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

	The Minor barnstar
	Thank you for helping update and add short descriptions to Wikipedia articles. With your help, we have cleared the WikiProject's top 3000 list for the second month in a row! Your work has made Wikipedia better. Keep it up, and happy holidays! LR.127 (talk) 02:42, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		Thank you for your understanding and guidance with the article on Morgan London Latta. It's editors like you, who take the time to support and mentor new contributors, that help grow Wikipedia's community of enthusiastic and dedicated editors. Your patience and willingness to share your expertise make a meaningful difference.

Dr pangloss (talk) 22:42, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Guild of Copy Editors Annual Report Our 2024 Annual Report is now ready for review. Highlights: Introduction Membership news and election results Summary of Drives, Blitzes and the Requests page Closing words – Your Guild coordinators To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:37, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I removed your proposed deletions tags (deprod). This process is only used for non-controversial topics. You should know that anything to do with LGBTQ, Middle East, DEI, etc., are controversial. Please go to WP:AfD. I'm not taking any stance, yet, but take this as a process issue. Bearian (talk) 03:07, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for letting me know your thought process. This was one of a batch of deprod articles that WP:FRAT has tried to fix without success. I wasn't considering any of them as being controversial since plenty of time has been provided for them to meet notability and the WP active members are all inclusionists. But I do understand your point. Rublamb (talk) 03:15, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm trying to protect the Foundation. We don't need to go along with the world when forced to do so. Bearian (talk) 03:18, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've become an exclusionist with experience. See this evidence. Bearian (talk) 03:25, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bearian: There are AfDs for all three if you wish to participate. Rublamb (talk) 20:20, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure what you mean and request that you don't assumed bad intent. This has nothing to do with current events but is a project that has been ongoing to make sure that all articles in WP:FRAT meet notability. We have worked really hard to try and find sources for these articles, with some being a work in progress for several years. And I have not idea why you think Phi Alpha Mu is controversial. Granted anyone can remove a deprod for any reason, just as anyone can submit a deprod for any reason. Rublamb (talk) 03:27, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not assuming bad faith - rather I'm trying to show our good faith. Everything now has "to do with current events"; everything in 2025 is political. I'm assuming that you watch the news coming from Washington, DC, that many formerly anodyne topics are now controversial. With the richest and most powerful man in the world looking for any excuse to destroy Wikipedia, we need not comply ahead of time, but we do need to be above suspicion. That's it, nothing more. Do you see my point of view? Bearian (talk) 02:16, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your points on the discussion about fraternity mbership and weather it should be a Category. The issue is that alumni categories are not limited yo graduates. They do include non-graduating attendees. This is most clear because thry have various sports-player sub-cats. I think however we could argue for some people this association is non-defining and they should have the Category dropped. I am not sure how many non-graduates are in any of these categories. I would at least listen to an argument that a particular non-graduate the connection is non-defining. I do believe some non-graduates have defining connections.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I know of a person who left a university about a semester before graduating. I would argue he is still defined by being an alumni, even though not a graduate. However outle bio on him does not even mention he attended that university.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:46, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I should point out he is not categorized in connection to it. I have seen far too many categories with no support in the article to assume not mentioned in an article means there is not a category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:47, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Johnpacklambert: Thanks for following up. To be clear, I think GLO membership should be kept as a category, even if it doesn't quite meet the threshold for a defining characteristic. Partly because these generate a list that is of interest to many people (I am a librarian and think about ways people can access data) and partly because these memberships were significant and lifelong bonds for most members in the late 19th century and first half of the 20th century. It gets looser in the modern era where someone can join a Greek letter organization (GLO), barely participate, and go inactive all in one semester. We also live in an era where there is a huge bias against GLOs, making it more challenging to fight deletionists.

As WP:FRAT's category expert explained to me, someone might be an elected official or the winner of a Nobel prize which are clearly defining, while the membership in a college organization seems less so within the scope of a person's life. (He doesn't agree with removing these categories either but is just trying to explain the way most editors look at categories). I then think about my grandfather who was mayor and a judge but still went to his fraternity's annual gathering every year until he died in 1972. My mother and uncle grew up visiting his college campus and fraternity house.

I agree with you on what defines a university alumni and always include non-graduates in the many "List of ABC university alumni" articles that I have created. You make a good point--that the category could be used to represent someone who dropped out after a semester. However, most universities and colleges claim and honor anyone notable or famous who attended and didn't graduate, making those connections more tangible. Frequently, these bonds are cemented with honorary degrees, guest presentations on campus, board appointments, interviews in alumni magazines, etc. Some, like cartoonist Jeff MacNelly who dropped out of the University of North Carolina, were very active on campus as a student and continued to support the university in later life, documenting the university as a defining characteristic. On the other hand, until his national fraternity created an annual award in his honor after he died, it was difficult to define MacNelly's relationship with his fraternity St. Anthony Hall as he did not attend local or national reunions or make gifts (based on published donor roles). I use him as an example because I have worked on a GA class article about this fraternity and am familiar with it and MacNelly. His career as a national cartoonist is defining. His membership in the fraternity still lacks a source in his article, yet his article includes a category for his high school. (It is puzzling that high schools are considered defining but fraternities aren't, right?)

To sum all this up and return to the point of my original comment, GLOs tend to be social organizations that people are active in for a maximum of four years. However, college attendance results in a field of study that can dictate qualifications, expertise, and future careers. In comparison, fraternity membership looks trivial. Think of it this way. We all know that Bill Clinton was a president, governor, and a Rhodes Scholar. People might even know that he went to Yale Law School. But, can you name his fraternities? Unfortunately, this is the distinction we are fighting with this CfD. Rublamb (talk) 20:14, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would say if something is not defining to the subject we should not have a Category. It might be worth creating a list of, but we should not have a Category for it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:19, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Rublamb (talk) 12:34, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

		The Fraternity/Sorority Barnstar
		For cleaning up Fraternity and Sorority articles even when it's controversial and causes you discomfort. Bearian (talk) 03:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]