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Portugal

Bruno Rodrigues (footballer, born 1996)

Bruno Rodrigues (footballer, born 1996) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Playing 110 minutes in the highest Finnish league, 264 minutes in the second Finnish league and 0 minutes in the Portuguese second league is an extremely weak claim to notability. In other words the footballer thoroughly fails WP:SPORTCRIT, unless he can be shoehorned in with strong, significant independent coverage. Now, Rodrigues is mainly known for scoring goals on the fourth Finnish tier. This is an amateur league for mailmen and schoolteachers, and in my opinion, it follows that the coverage on his exploits in that league (Palloliitto, found in the Finnish Wikipedia) is insignificant in nature. The subject therefore fails WP:GNG as well. Coverage like this is paywalled, but looks short. But you be the judge. Geschichte (talk) 08:35, 12 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Vagos, Portugal

Vagos, Portugal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article is redundant, as the town is already covered in Vagos. The content here consists only of a single sentence without references or relevant information. FilipeMRGouveia (talk) 19:18, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Massawa (1541)

Battle of Massawa (1541) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The event is not a battle, but a mutiny that ended in a massacre. None of the sources describe it as a battle, and they only provide minimal details. The article is misleading and likely biased.

  • Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2025 February 7. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 18:53, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, Military, Africa, and Portugal. Skynxnex (talk) 19:03, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment The original name for this article was Massawa Ambush before someone else changed the article name. You can check this here.[1]
    It was still an ambush that destroyed a Portuguese force. You can disagree with the name if you want to. The article is only mentioning the background that led to the events of this engagement. I don't see where the bias is here.
    Not enough reason to delete it. I don't see if it fails anything. عبدالرحمن4132 (talk) 06:12, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Hello and here's what I have to say:
    • The original title being "Massawa Ambush" does not change the issue that the event does not meet the notability standards for an article. However I do agree that the title change worsened this misrepresentation by making it sound like a major battle.
    • If the attack was a small skirmish resulting from Portuguese mutineers wandering into enemy territory, then it's not significant enough. And the article exaggerates its importance by presenting it as a major conflict rather than a minor mutiny.
    • The bias here is how the article presents a small incident into a "battle" to create the impression of a major Adal victory over the Portuguese.
    Kolno (talk) 09:13, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • You should've added a notability tag to suggest improvement of the article instead of nominating it for deletion first. See Template:Notability.
    • I don't know how you implied that the article is creating the impression of a major Adal victory. You might argue that the article could be rewritten much better, and that's okay, but I see no reason why it should be deleted; it has reliable secondary sources, provides acceptable coverage, and is independent of the subject.
    • I have another source that mentions this was more than a mutiny. R.B. Serjeant (1963), The Portuguese Off the South Arabian Coast: Ḥaḍramī Chronicles, with Yemeni and European Accounts of Dutch Pirates Off Mocha in the Seventeenth Century, p. 99 states the following: A contingent about 100 strong landed on the coast by way of assistance for the Hatï King of Abyssinia (al-Habashah), but the Karâd Ahmad al-Mudjâhid dispatched an expedition (tadjrïdah) against them which slew them to the last man. When they got to hear of the death of their comrades they murdered a number of the inhabitants of Musawwa. A quantity of goods was looted there, and their children, male and female (even), were robbed I think this can be added to the article as well.
    عبدالرحمن4132 (talk) 13:17, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Interesting, I don't think the article should be deleted as this was heavily reported on. If there are issues with the title of the name of the event, then it can be agreed upon after reaching a consensus and adopting a new name for the article.
    However we also have Portuguese sources narrating the event as the following.
    Elaine Sanceau discussed this in her book "The Land Of Prester John A Chronicle Of Portuguese Exploration"
    Pages 111-112
    "In Abyssinia, he informs us, the Patriarch enjoys the same consideration as the Pope in Europe. He was therefore dazzled by his own importance and he wished to dazzle others too. The more the land of his adoption was extolled, the brighter shone his own reflected glory. Thus he talked of Abyssinia constantly and he talked very big. Men listened open-mouthed to his tales of the greatness and riches of that enchanted land and the magnificence of its monarch. Silver and gold were as little to the Negus as they had been to his ancestor Solomon. There was nothing that he would deny to those who fought for him. His empire was the place where every able-bodied man could win a fortune. Abyssinia was the land of all delights."
    "The Patriarch applauded the suggestion. It seems that the King had given him authority to raise volunteers for Prester John. Placing a broad interpretation upon this permission, Dom Joao Bermudez encouraged would-be deserters from the fleet. He was lavish with promises on the Emperor's behalf, and made endowments right and left on paper. He looked forward, no doubt, to appearing before Prester John backed by a strong contingent, but he overreached himself at last. His glowing tales made men's mouths water and they could not wait One by one they slipped ashore and disappeared. Vainly Manuel da Gama proclaimed that under pain of death no volunteers might go inland except when Dom Joao Bermudez went, and subject to the Governor's leave. Evasions still continued. The Patriarch's propaganda brought about yet more serious results. Some eighty or a hundred men made up their minds to escape all together. They collected their muskets and their swords. They chose a captain Antonio Correa and a guide was engaged ashore to lead them to the Emperor's camp. They stole a boat one night and rowed away, quite determined that nothing would turn them back."
    As you can see in the source, João Bermudez, the self-acclaimed Patriarch of Ethiopia, enticed the soldiers led by Antonio Correa with his propaganda of riches and greatness which he did to raise an army to aid "Prester John" in their fight to liberate Abyssinia from Muslim rule. These soldiers found a Muslim guide ashore to help take them through the interior. Replayerr (talk) 16:41, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Later in pages 113-114,
    "The guide "showed great good will and led them into some valleys between mountains, saying that there was water farther down." Gasping, but happily expectant, the adventurers plodded on. Under the paling stare of dawn they plunged into the narrow gorge and straight into an ambush.
    Then *our men understood that the guide had deceived them that they might all be slain, and so they killed him and began to fight the Moors with their guns, and the Moors with arrows and slings which showered so many stones upon them that they did not know what to do; none the less, the guns did much harm to the Moors and kept them at a distance.
    These Moors were men of the King of Zeila and the King of Massawa . . . with them were Turkish musketeers; but the worst evil [for the Portuguese] was the great thirst from which they suffered*"
    Antonio Correa was the first man to be killed, but another captain was appointed hastily, and the battle continued. The fugitives fought desperately, and the struggle might have been prolonged if the Moslems had not devised a stratagem.
    They suddenly cried out that the fighting should cease. It had started only by mistake. They really were all Christians and loyal vassals of Prester John! They had supposed the Portuguese were robbers at first sight hence the attack. Now that daylight had revealed their true identity, why not make peace?
    Hostilities were suspended at once, but some of the Portuguese remained suspicious. It would be more prudent, they said, to go on fighting. But the majority were frantic with thirst and could not think of anything but their longing for water. The risen sun shone on an arid waste; they had no guide, and if they killed these men, who could lead them to where there was something to drink? The improvised captain especially felt that he could endure the agony no longer. "He was feeble," comments Caspar Correa, who was used to commanders made of sterner stuff. This man prevailed upon his comrades to make peace, at which the Moslems all embraced the Portuguese like long-lost brothers. Did they want water? asked the kindly souls; they should have some at once. So they were led, all unsuspecting, to the King of Zeila's tent.
    The terrible Granyé was sitting with his hands devoutly clasped about a string of beads to which was hung a little wooden cross. Reverently he handed this chaplet to the Portuguese captain. "I say my prayers with these" Granyé explained.
    The fugitives were in no mood to query the sincerity of his devotions. Could they have water? they implored their pious host, who brought gourds full of water then and there. The sight was too much for parched and weary men. Oblivious of all else, they cast their weapons to the ground and drank They drank and drank and drank, and then loosened their belts to drink still more.
    The Moors, meanwhile, laughing and chatting pleasantly, picked up the muskets, swords, and lances and examined them- It was done in such an innocent and casual manner"
    "That the Portuguese paid no attention. They were only roused from their orgy of water-drinking when "the Moors, having taken possession of most of the weapons, attacked the Portuguese with them, killing and wounding as many as they could."
    "Surrender!" cried the King, "and your lives will be spared.** As nearly all of them were disarmed and defenceless, this appeared the only thing to do, but fourteen valiant souls refused. "Unfortunate men!" they shouted to their comrades. "Why surrender to traitors? Die like men, for they will loll you cruelly!" So saying, they grasped what weapons they had left, and stood tiieir ground and died. In a few minutes all was over. But one man out of the fourteen had the presence of mind, as he fell wounded to the ground, to roll over and lie still as if dead, face downward in his blood. With rigid selfcontrol he played the corpse all day, and so he witnessed his companions* fate.
    "Those that had surrendered, the Moors bound hand and foot; they stripped them naked, and shut them in a cattlepen.** Towards evening the Moors lined up outside on horseback, with all their lances bristling in the fading light. "They ordered the pen to be opened, loosed one of the captives, anct bade him come out to where the King and his captains sat on their horses by the door. As the wretched prisoner emerged, thus naked, the King thrust at him with his spear and gave him the first wound, and then the others did the same, and all tormented him.** As soon as the victim fell dead, a second was called out, and so the ghastly game continued until no one was left. "And when the sun had cooled, the Moors loaded their packs and removed to another place, because of all the dead men that lay there.**"[2]
    ____________________________________________________________
    As you can see this group of Portuguese adventurers, suffering from thirst, were led by a guide who promised water but instead led them into a conflict by Moorish forces allied with the Kings of Zeila and Massawa, including Turkish musketeers. A fierce battle ensued, with the Portuguese using their guns effectively but struggling due to dehydration. Their leader was killed, and a new captain was appointed. The Moors then used deception, claiming the attack was a mistake and that they were actually Christians, loyal to Prester John. Desperate for water, the Portuguese accepted peace and were led to the tent of the King of Zeila, Ahmed Granye. He feigned friendship, gave them water, and while they drank in relief, his men casually gathered their weapons. Once disarmed, the Moors attacked and overpowered them.
    Most of the Portuguese surrendered, but fourteen refused, choosing to fight and die. One man feigned death and survived to witness the horrific fate of his comrades. The captured men were stripped, bound, and locked in a cattle pen. Later, the Moors, led by their king, executed them one by one in a cruel spectacle. Once the massacre was complete, the victors moved on, leaving the battlefield strewn with corpses. Replayerr (talk) 16:51, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Kolno Instead I think the article should have a notability tag and ask for more sources instead of it being deleted as there is enough coverage from secondary sources discussing the event. Please refer to Template:Notability. However I do think this was a significant event as it was one of the things that compelled the Portuguese into a direct intervention in Abyssinia's conflict with Adal. This was the first conflict between Adal and Portugal. Replayerr (talk) 16:57, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @عبدالرحمن4132 What do you think of this? Replayerr (talk) 17:06, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Excellent, I never knew this account existed; big thanks for sharing it. I think this could be added to the article. You're free to expand the article if you wish. عبدالرحمن4132 (talk) 19:09, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In Lukian Prijac's book "Foreign relations with Ethiopia: Human and Diplomatic history (from its origins to present)"

Pages 126-128:

"The ambitious Tegrayan lord, who decades later became a major challenger himself to the Ethiopian Solomonid throne, must have seen the Portuguese in India as powerful associates for his own local political agenda. Similarly, João Bermudez, the physician of Rodrigo da Lima’s embassy, appears as having had an equally important role as mediator between the Ethiopians and the Portuguese and perhaps also as one of the main advocates of the military campaign. But beyond the schemes of individual figures, Christovão’s expedition nourished from the will of ambitious mercenaries, adventure seekers, and deprived soldiers who saw it as an opportunity to improve their condition and obtain potential bounty. An episode occurred at the inception of the expedition and reported in a contemporary anonymous text supports this point. The document informs that when the bulk of the Portuguese armada was fighting at Suez, towards March or April 1541, a group from among the troops who had been left back at the Bay of Arquico set off for the Ethiopian highlands without the knowledge of their military leaders; it was guided by the fidalgo António Correa and comprised about a hundred men. Unfortunately, the improvised military company got quickly lost and ended up being massacred by locals somewhere near the coast. It is thus possible to assume that this early failed expedition was driven by a spontaneous will to combat the mouros, as the Portuguese called the troops of Ahmad b. Ibrahim, and that it was following their example that Estevao came to the decision to send troops to the Ethiopian highlands."[3]

According to this secondary source, it was a deemed a 'failed expedition' driven by spontaneous will to confront the 'mouros'. Agreeing with my previous statements in this discussion. Replayerr (talk) 18:30, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

After reviewing the additional sources you've provided, I can see that this event has more historical context than I initially thought. My initial concerns were based on the sources cited in the article.
That said, the article in its current state is still very underdeveloped. I recommend you expanding and improving it to ensure it meets Wikipedia's quality standards. Additionally, the title remains misleading, so I suggest the old title be brought back. Thank you! Kolno (talk) 19:39, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I will include the content first and rewrite the article and later we can discuss on the talk page of what name should be used Replayerr (talk) 11:04, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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