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The result was redirect to Karafuto Prefecture. Content can also be Merged. Liz Read! Talk! 23:23, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Geography of Karafuto (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article is a content fork of Sakhalin#Geography and Sakhalin#Climate; additionally, it is simply a list. b3stJ (IPA: /bʌˈθrɛstˌdʒeɪ/, formerly AEagleLionThing) | User talk page | 23:31, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Merge - since the article lacks reference and it discusses on the Geography of Karafuto Prefecture in which there is already an existing article on Karafuto Prefecture - I think it is best if we merge it into the main article Karafuto Prefecture as a subset describing it's Geography. Uncle Bash007 (talk) 08:16, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete – I would have voted to merge, but nothing in Geography of Karafuto, which is essentially a list article, is sourced. Yue🌙 05:25, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Karafuto Prefecture. Nothing to merge without sources, but could be a resource for expanding the main article and is a reasonable search term. Eluchil404 (talk) 23:28, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Karafuto Prefecture. Per above. No need a seperate article for this. Cold Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 02:29, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Karafuto Prefecture. Per above .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:59, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Merge to Karafuto Prefecture. It has some useful info like links and can made its own section in that article. Ramos1990 (talk)
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The result was redirect to Mauritania at the 1996 Summer Olympics. RL0919 (talk) 22:52, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Mohamed Ould Brahim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Declined prod. The only added source was world athletics database. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT, WP:NOLY and WP:NATH. LibStar (talk) 22:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete – Per the nominator's rationale. Yue🌙 23:56, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Athletics at the 1996 Summer Olympics – Men's 200 metres where his last place finish in a preliminary heat is recorded (his time was almost three-and-a-half seconds behind the winning time). A stand-alone article can't be supported, because there is a complete failure to satisfy WP:SPORTBASIC, prong 5, which mandates: "All sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources." (Emphasis added.) Cbl62 (talk) 01:01, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. The trend of Wikipedia is generally against these subject-specific guidelines, so I put little weight on whether or not NSPORT is met. important part is whether or not topic-neutral guidelines like WP:N are met, which I would say is met in this case via NEXIST. Subject was not merely an Olympian but qualified as the sole representative of his country at several global championships over a 13-year period, making the case for sources existing quite strong. Assuming he had to win a national championship to qualify as was standard practice at the time, that would make him meet WP:NATH as well FWIW. I was able to find an alternate name (Brahim Mohamed Ould) for the subject which I added a redirect for, and found two other major international competitions linked. The article needs some work, but I think the pieces are there for this. --Habst (talk) 19:33, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- "making the case for sources existing quite strong." Where are these sources? LibStar (talk) 22:35, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- In offline Mauritanian news archives. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:56, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Well unless evidence of existence of sources is provided, this article will not be kept. LibStar (talk) 01:06, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- In offline Mauritanian news archives. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:56, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- "making the case for sources existing quite strong." Where are these sources? LibStar (talk) 22:35, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Mauritania at the 1996 Summer Olympics: As an AtD since no one has offered evidence of WP:SIGCOV qualifying this subject as notable under WP:GNG/WP:NSPORT. Should SIGCOV be found in the future, the article history will be available to expand as a standalone page. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:28, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment Arabic is not a language I am familiar with, I'm depedent on machine translation, but this news report from 2008 appears to indicate that he was the President of the Mauritanian Olympic Association at that time. I'm not sure if that is the official IOC body of Mauritania, but if it is, and he was President, that would indicate far higher likelihood of notability. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 23:02, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Appears the offical IOC affiliate is the Mauritanian National Olympic and Sports Committee and he was not President at any point: https://www.cnosm.mr/node/1173. Goldsztajn (talk) 23:10, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- In French I can find references (eg https://cridem.org/imprimable.php?article=723992) to the "Association des Olympiens Mauritaniens" - which looks to be similar to a players' association (ie sports persons trade union). And here on p.59 of the document (numbered page 683) it shows the registration of the organisation with Mohamed Ould Brahim as President. Goldsztajn (talk) 23:21, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Appears the offical IOC affiliate is the Mauritanian National Olympic and Sports Committee and he was not President at any point: https://www.cnosm.mr/node/1173. Goldsztajn (talk) 23:10, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:28, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Mauritania at the 1996 Summer Olympics I've searched in French and Arabic under his name and can find no more than what is above. For the Mauritanian Olympians' Association there are some mentions in French language news reports, but none mentioning him. The single Arabic item mentioning the Association and him is the only one I could find. One of the French articles seems to indicate that the current President (a Sydney 2000 Olympian) had sought to revive the organisation ("à remettre sur les rails cette association") when she became President in 2011 - suggesting a lack of notability in its earlier phase when Mohamed Ould Brahim was President. It might be possible that the Mauritanian Olympians' Association is notable, but given there is no article for that, redirection to the 1996 Olympics article appears most suitable. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 00:03, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect, per Cbl62. Consensus is very strong that NSPORT requires SIGCOV sources be cited in the article. JoelleJay (talk) 01:49, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Mauritania at the 1996 Summer Olympics. Lack of SIGCOV resulting in the subject not meeting GNG. While Athletics at the 1996 Summer Olympics – Men's 200 metres is a suitable target as well, my preference is the Mauritania list based on recent precedent to redirect less-than-GNG athletes to the “country at year Olympics” article. Frank Anchor 16:16, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Mauritania at the 1996 Summer Olympics Subject does not appear to meet the WP:GNG, with the only sources being primary references. Let'srun (talk) 17:39, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was redirect to Jack Kerouac#Literary executorship and representation. Liz Read! Talk! 22:20, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- John H. Shen-Sampas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not a notable person; their only noteworthiness is as executor for Kerouac, which is already covered in that article. There's no proper sourcing--and it's a pretty obvious COI creation, according to some editors. Pinging participants in talk page conversation: User:Wikirhood, User:Toddst1, User:Ashmoo, User:Auranor, and User:Samwillan2019. Drmies (talk) 22:02, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: I have repaired the incomplete link syntax in the nomination (which is allowed), which prevented {{subst:afd2}} from being called. No opinion. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Redirect to Jack Kerouac#Literary executorship and representation; no WP:SIGCOV found. Hatman31 (he/him · talk · contribs) 18:02, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect - literally a case of WP:NOTINHERITED. Bearian (talk) 00:52, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect: as above seems fine, not much notability outside of that role. Very minimal sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 20:09, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Jack Kerouac#Literary executorship and representation per above.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:00, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 22:21, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Portuguese Rugby League Association (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable governing body with no affiliation to either the IRL or ERL. J Mo 101 (talk) 21:43, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete, no significant coverage or indication of notability. Archive copy of the PRLA website (history) says it is/was based in Australia with affiliation to AFL and NSWRL – but I found nothing on their websites about it. For IRL and ERL, nothing on the old IRL websites (rlif.com and rlif.org), but archived pages on rlef.eu.com (such as Euro Seeding) indicate that Portugal had observer status c.2006–2010 and the site had a link to the PRLA website. The only article of note about Portugal on the current ERL website is from November 2023 about seeking to establish a Portugal RL federation, but it does not name the PRLA. EdwardUK (talk) 04:51, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Single source article Mn1548 (talk) 10:10, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom ,Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:07, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete article has existed since 2008 and only 1 source. Ramos1990 (talk)
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The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 22:22, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Let's Go Bowling (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article about a band, not properly referenced as having any strong claim to passing WP:NMUSIC. As always, bands are not automatically entitled to have Wikipedia articles just because they exist, and have to be shown to pass certain specific notability criteria supported by WP:GNG-worthy reliable source coverage about them -- but this cites no referencing at all, and is basically written as a directory entry rather than an encyclopedia article: it goes "they are a band who exist, list of members, list of recordings, website link, the end", without documenting a single thing about their career that could possibly be measured against NMUSIC at all. And the article's been tagged for lacking sourcing since 2010 without ever having any sourcing added.
Simple existence is not "inherently" notable enough to exempt a band from having to have any sourcing. Bearcat (talk) 20:37, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Comment. A start here: Allmusic [5] [6] [7] as well as [8] [9] [10](very short) [11] (user generated?) Geschichte (talk) 22:10, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep On top of the critical coverage identified by Geschichte, one of which states the subject is one of the "founders of West Coast ska revival", there is further critical coverage in another WP:RSMUSIC publication here. I have added several of the identified citations to the article; it is no longer unsourced but still needs expansion. Should be enough here to get over the bar for a keep. ResonantDistortion 20:04, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Further coverage from the Fresno Bee and the Arizona Daily Star has been identified and added to the article. The bylined Bee article states the subject is "pretty much the biggest band to come out of Fresno". ResonantDistortion 20:34, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep On top of the critical coverage identified by Geschichte, one of which states the subject is one of the "founders of West Coast ska revival", there is further critical coverage in another WP:RSMUSIC publication here. I have added several of the identified citations to the article; it is no longer unsourced but still needs expansion. Should be enough here to get over the bar for a keep. ResonantDistortion 20:04, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Weak keep per above. Geschichte (talk) 17:41, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, GrabUp - Talk 21:21, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep, they meet WP:BAND. In addition to the sources found and added by ResonantDistortion, I've found in digitised newspapers a 1995 article/review of their first CD [12]; a 1996 review of their second CD [13]; a 1997 review of a live performance with songs from their 2nd CD, which also says a video of a single from that CD was on regular rotation on MTV2 [14]; and a para about that video in an article about ska music [15]. (The links are to NewspaperArchive.com in the Wikipedia library, so should be accessible to anyone with access to that.) RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:13, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was speedy delete. CSD G7 Liz Read! Talk! 22:23, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Elvire Jaspers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Appears entirely promotional Amigao (talk) 20:28, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete. Fails the GNG as a regular professional at work. gidonb (talk) 20:21, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment I think it is very likely that she is notable - she was the director-general of the Dutch Public Broadcasting organisation for 5 years. The position of Director-General of the BBC is notable, as are all the people who have held that position. All the managing directors of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation are notable. Usually, being appointed to that position means the person has already had significant achievements, and it results in significant coverage of them and scrutiny of their decisions while they are in the position. Such coverage of this person would obviously be in Dutch. I'll see what I can find. RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:31, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment Article appears to already be deleted. This discussion can be closed. Ramos1990 (talk)
- No, an article should not be deleted during an AfD discussion. There is no consensus on deletion - my Comment is against deletion, so I don't think the discussion should be closed yet. RebeccaGreen (talk) 22:18, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. I see a consensus to Keep this article although it might benefit from a title change or editing improvements. Liz Read! Talk! 22:26, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Battle of Delhi (1783) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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As far as I can read in the cited sources (some are unreliable [16]), this is not even a battle; it is about plundering, collecting tribute, and building Gurudwaras, a topic which isn't really notable enough to deserve it's own article. The cited sources do not call it the "Battle of Delhi" even once.If necessary, we can redirect this page to the Sikh attacks on Delhi. AlvaKedak (talk) 19:28, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete per the arguments of the nominator. Ramencolls (talk) 10:52, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. I agree that the sources that I checked do not say Battle but it is evident from sources that fight took place with Mughals trying to prevent Sikhs from capturing Delhi with significant coverage in reliable sources like Gupta and Gandhi that shows the fight took place, "The Mughal response was swift but ineffective. Prince Mirza Shikoh attempted to repel the Sikhs near Qila Mahtabpur but was defeated and forced to retreat. By March 9, widespread panic had engulfed Delhi as the Sikhs breached the city through the Ajmeri Gate, proceeding to devastate the Hauz Qazi area. In a separate engagement, Fazal Ali Khan confronted the invaders; however, the clash resulted in the death of Rao Dhiraj Ram’s son from Pahari Dhiraj." Passes WP:GNG and maybe renaming the title to Capture of Delhi (1783) will be better. RangersRus (talk) 23:10, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- The sources cited may mention skirmishes, like the Mughal response or the clash with Fazal Ali Khan, but they do not frame this as a cohesive "battle" or even a singular, significant event. Instead, it is portrayed as part of a broader pattern of Sikh incursions, specifically plunder and collection of tribute, as noted in the nomination. This aligns with WP:NEVENT, which requires events to have lasting significance or widespread recognition, neither of which is evident here beyond routine historical raiding. You suggest renaming it to "Capture of Delhi (1783)," but the sources don’t consistently support a "capture" either; the Sikhs entered, looted, and left, they did not establish control. This makes it a poor fit for a standalone article and more of a footnote to the Sikh attacks on Delhi#Twelfth attack page, where it is already covered adequately. Creating a separate page risks WP:CONTENTFORK, duplicating content without adding value. The quoted passage about Mirza Shikoh and Fazal Ali Khan, while detailed, doesn’t elevate this above other minor clashes in the same sequence, failing WP:SIGCOV for a distinct topic.Deletion, or at minimum a redirect to Sikh attacks on Delhi, is the better option per WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE. AlvaKedak (talk) 10:54, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- No I do not agree. Sources clearly show that they fought, captured, plundered, sat on the throne and while some left after days after agreement, there were others who stayed for months to build temples per agreement between the Mughal King and the Sikhs. I am going to leave it to that. RangersRus (talk) 12:19, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- The sources cited may mention skirmishes, like the Mughal response or the clash with Fazal Ali Khan, but they do not frame this as a cohesive "battle" or even a singular, significant event. Instead, it is portrayed as part of a broader pattern of Sikh incursions, specifically plunder and collection of tribute, as noted in the nomination. This aligns with WP:NEVENT, which requires events to have lasting significance or widespread recognition, neither of which is evident here beyond routine historical raiding. You suggest renaming it to "Capture of Delhi (1783)," but the sources don’t consistently support a "capture" either; the Sikhs entered, looted, and left, they did not establish control. This makes it a poor fit for a standalone article and more of a footnote to the Sikh attacks on Delhi#Twelfth attack page, where it is already covered adequately. Creating a separate page risks WP:CONTENTFORK, duplicating content without adding value. The quoted passage about Mirza Shikoh and Fazal Ali Khan, while detailed, doesn’t elevate this above other minor clashes in the same sequence, failing WP:SIGCOV for a distinct topic.Deletion, or at minimum a redirect to Sikh attacks on Delhi, is the better option per WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE. AlvaKedak (talk) 10:54, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: I've just rolled back some significant sockpuppet edits, but tbqh looking at the page history I wouldn't be surprised if all the text that remains is also of sockpuppet origin. -- asilvering (talk) 10:27, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: This is a bit strange. Assessing the sources help me understand that this passes WP:GNG, which supersedes WP:NEVENT if at all there's any debate on whether it passes it or not. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:34, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, GrabUp - Talk 20:04, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: Regardless of whether or not it was an actual "battle". This event passes WP:GNG. -- Mike 🗩 16:34, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Geschichte (talk) 07:55, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Bata Mahadeva (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article fails notability. I can't find any significant (or even insignificant) coverage of this hindu temple by any reliable or notable sources. The only source of this article gives me a security warning when trying to access the page. Not exactly the best sign. Gaismagorm (talk) 19:06, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Keep: From a quick read of the page, seems this is a heritage site - notability per WP:NGEO?. Maybe there are sources (non-english sources maybe) that can be used to develop the page further. Asteramellus (talk) 23:27, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Maybe, I wasn't able to access the page, but I'll assume you're right. I still think it should be deleted as there isn't significant coverage (as far as I can tell). If anyone can find some good sources that show notability, I'll be willing to eat my words. Gaismagorm (talk) 11:10, 28 March 2025 (UTC)#
- Keep - the article has two sources: one is the heritage documentation you were unable to access (via a different route - I've added the link); the other is what appears to be a standard work on Bhubaneswar monuments, which was already in the article - just because it's not online doesn't mean it should be discounted. Ingratis (talk) 03:38, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Alright, I guess I'll eat my words, Withdrawn Gaismagorm (talk) 16:59, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 22:28, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- List of Megatokyo characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The main characters are already fully covered on the main Megatokyo article, and this spinout list is just overly detailed plot summaries and speculations based entirely on primary sources. Searches are not turning up any coverage in reliable sources that discuss the various minor and supporting characters of the webcomic in any way that would justify this spinout list, or allow it to pass the WP:GNG or WP:NLIST. Rorshacma (talk) 18:52, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Keep: a reasonable WP:SPLIT. Needs trimming. Remember that WP:NLIST indicates that list can be kept for navigational reasons (but adding sources and removing what seems personal interpretations is necessary; which are cleanup issues). Best, -Mushy Yank. 09:22, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment - If I may ask, what navigational purposes does this list serve? None of the individual entries have their own articles to link to, and the only other article that relates to this one is the main Megatokyo article that this was split from. And I would argue that the lack of sources is not a cleanup issue, as I stated in my nom that my WP:BEFORE was unable to locate any significant coverage in reliable, non-primary sources discussing these characters. Rorshacma (talk) 15:56, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- The split makes navigation more comfortable for the reader and avoids a long list per Wikipedia:SPLITLIST, which states:" If there is no "natural" way to split or reduce a long list or table, it may be best to leave it intact, and a decision made to either keep it embedded in the main article or split it off into a stand-alone page. Regardless, a list or table should be kept as short as is feasible for its purpose and scope. Too much statistical data is against policy." Notability of the set should therefore not be a concern. Part of the characters’ description is sourced in the fiction itself. Midwestern Folklore. (2005). Department of English, Indiana State University and a few other Gbooks hits seem to contain a few helpful things. Now, if you want to redirect and cut down material and everyone agrees it’s a nice enough navigation experience, feel free. -Mushy Yank. 19:38, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment - If I may ask, what navigational purposes does this list serve? None of the individual entries have their own articles to link to, and the only other article that relates to this one is the main Megatokyo article that this was split from. And I would argue that the lack of sources is not a cleanup issue, as I stated in my nom that my WP:BEFORE was unable to locate any significant coverage in reliable, non-primary sources discussing these characters. Rorshacma (talk) 15:56, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete – I don't see any evidence in the sources that "Megatokyo characters" is an established subject of its own, that its characters have relevance outside of the encyclopedic subject of the main work, or that minor characters are mentioned by sources at all. The list is almost exclusively cited to primary sources, suggesting that this is more of a fan-wiki list than an encyclopedic one. Significant characters are described in plenty depth in the main article. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:48, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete as well for me, and merge any salvageable details regards the characters to the Megatokyo article.Villkomoses (talk) 12:31, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete – I agree with Mable's point that there's no evidence that "Megatokyo characters" is an established subject of its own. It's not notable a topic for us own separate article. Also agree with Villkomoses that anything from this article could be ported to m the main article. HenryCrun15 (talk) 21:32, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG not a established subject of its own.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:12, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per all, as failing to pass WP:GNG and WP:NLIST. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:44, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 22:29, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Aretamma Temple (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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A completely unnotable temple in india. The article is completely unsourced, and some searching on google finds nothing that shows any form of notability. The closest thing to a source is a website about the family that build it (i think), but thats a primary source. Absolutely no coverage by outside sources. Gaismagorm (talk) 18:50, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, Hinduism, India, and Andhra Pradesh. Gaismagorm (talk) 18:50, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom. Doesn't seem notable. Based on content, seems of local significance - maybe a section can be added on Kovur, Nellore district page for the content which is on this page? Asteramellus (talk) 13:50, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- delete existence is not notability. I could not find anything else than tourism details. lacks significant coverage in reliable sources. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:11, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. First, I see policy-based reasons for Deleting this article. Most of the Keep arguments are talking about an article that they hope this will become some day but not about its present condition.
Secondly, do not retitle an article that is being discussed at an AFD discussion, it confusese the tools we use to manage, relist and close discussions. Wait until the discussion is closed to move an article.
Finally, this article could have been moved to Draft space rather than brought to AFD but that sometimes results in move wars by editors who insist articles be in main space. I'm happy to restore this article to Draft space (or you can make a request at WP:REFUND) but since this AFD discussion closed with a Delete outcome, know that you will have to submit a draft to WP:AFC for review and not just move it back to main space in a few days. This article will need improvement with sourcing and also editors will have to rewrite or refocus the article so it is clear that the concept refers to a unitifed, coherent event, not separate, different occurrences that just happened around the same time of the year. Liz Read! Talk! 22:42, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Balkan Spring (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This page lacks any sources - it fails WP:GNG and WP:V. The author of the article themself (or rather, the editor that changed it from a redirect to an article) only cited a Reddit thread in one of his edits. And indeed, there are no reliable sources that can be found. The article wishes to refer to a wave of anti-government protests and civil unrest that swept across Southeastern and Central Europe in late 2024 and 2025
, yet apart from the Reddit thread, the sources are either irrelevant (a movie) or are from 2018-2020, thus unrelated to what the subject is supposed to be. Brat Forelli🦊 18:37, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Greece, North Macedonia, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, and Turkey. Zeibgeist (talk) 18:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Though I understand and appreciate your thoughts, what I meant with Reddit was to show that this term is now broadly being used in Balkan youth, and I am not capable of writing whole details of events here. I know that Turkey’s situation is fairly new though.
- I was hoping other authors can participate further, instead of deleting it. Mavreju (talk) 18:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Plus, all Slovakia, Serbia and Turkey protests are from 2025. Aren’t they?
- If not, feel free to fix them instead of deleting it. Mavreju (talk) 18:41, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- This is a bit of a different issue. Per WP:RSREDDIT, it is impossible for us to consider Reddit a reliable source for any sort of claim. You do wish to prove that
this term is now broadly being used in Balkan youth
, but this cannot be done. If this term was widespread, then we would have reliable sources to show its WP:N. But we do not. Brat Forelli🦊 18:45, 26 March 2025 (UTC)- I see. You are a better Wiki author than me, to be honest. So I won’t insist. Thanks!
- Let’s see what others think too! Mavreju (talk) 18:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Serbian protests have been going on since 3rd november DJpro39 (talk) 05:59, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- That's why I said late 2024 actually. Mavreju (talk) 07:06, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- This is a bit of a different issue. Per WP:RSREDDIT, it is impossible for us to consider Reddit a reliable source for any sort of claim. You do wish to prove that
- Delete unless reliable sources find these events connected, then recreate the article with valid sources. Polish kurd (talk) 19:22, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Problem with the sources is that none of them actually talk about a Balkan Spring and searching "Balkan Spring" brings up stuff from 2019. Polish kurd (talk) 08:01, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Speedy delete No sources. You could have also draftified this yourself too, no need for AFD on a new page – it is not acceptable to create an article without reliable sources. Reywas92Talk 19:53, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- This does not seem to be enough to need an article to tie them all together. Yes many countries in the region have experienced protests recently, no this is not a unified concept since all of the things being protested are quite distinct and independent. Reywas92Talk 04:25, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete for now as we don't have any sources to support the article. --Lenticel (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- You appear to have added 5 sources - 4 of those do not use the label of "Balkan Spring". One source does, Newsweek. The problem is, this is not a reliable source. Take a look at WP:NEWSWEEK:
Newsweek articles since 2013 are not generally reliable. (...) In addition, as of April 2024, Newsweek has disclosed that they make use of AI assistance to write articles.
Brat Forelli🦊 08:28, 27 March 2025 (UTC)- Oh, shame on them to be honest. Mavreju (talk) 15:12, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- You appear to have added 5 sources - 4 of those do not use the label of "Balkan Spring". One source does, Newsweek. The problem is, this is not a reliable source. Take a look at WP:NEWSWEEK:
- I've added sources. Can you check? Mavreju (talk) 07:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- I think the article could be renamed to "2024–present Balkan anti-government protests". Arsabent (talk) 13:40, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- By the way, could we please stop with the "-present"? 2024-25 is fine, if it lasts longer it can be extended. Polish kurd (talk) 15:07, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- I think -present is a general usage. Mavreju (talk) 15:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- I’m fine with the title change. Mavreju (talk) 15:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- By the way, could we please stop with the "-present"? 2024-25 is fine, if it lasts longer it can be extended. Polish kurd (talk) 15:07, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Okay, but are these protests related to eachother? In Romania they're anti-EU, in Slovakia they're pro-EU, etc... Polish kurd (talk) 16:54, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Kind of. They are all considered to be anti-government protests. Arsabent (talk) 17:00, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Romania may be the only exception but still it’s freedom-related. Mavreju (talk) 17:05, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Okay, but are these protests related to eachother? In Romania they're anti-EU, in Slovakia they're pro-EU, etc... Polish kurd (talk) 16:54, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Slovakia is a long way from the Balkans. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:52, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Its close enough for it to be relevant also the protests are similar so it makes sense for them to fall under this umbrella term. Roc1233 (talk) 17:49, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Do sources group them in this way? ꧁Zanahary꧂ 18:49, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Its close enough for it to be relevant also the protests are similar so it makes sense for them to fall under this umbrella term. Roc1233 (talk) 17:49, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep The article title issue can be worked out and "Balkans" may well not be the best descriptor but the phenomenon is real. Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (now being gutted by the US Trump administration) covered the protests in four countries in this article What's Fueling Protests In Georgia, Hungary, Romania, And Serbia?. Cullen328 (talk) 18:57, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- And Georgia is even further. Only one and a bit of those four countries are in the Balkans (Serbia and some of Romania). I'm finding it difficult to discern what the subject of this article actually is. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep While I agree that the title can be changed, it's slowly being mentioned in the media that these protests are inspired by each other, and people tell each other to get courage from the other countries. Thousands of edits are being shared in social media as a solidarity. Though I know original researches are not allowed, I'm pretty sure there are solid sources that can be found about it. I think up until the name "Balkan Spring" is widely accepted, 2024-25 Balkan protests or 2024-25 Anti-authoritarianism protests can be okay for this page. Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 04:20, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Speedy delete Article blatantly fails WP:V, there is no source that events are connected, no usage of the term, apart from pushing fringe internet theories. Romania421 (talk) 10:59, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep With the title change, the article no longer fails WP:V, nor WP:GNG: notability is obvious due to international and trustworthy agencies and press covering it, also being noted as a phenomenon. Verifiability is now also valid, due to the title change, as indeed no articles explicitly called it "Balkan Spring", but would refer to them as more of a "wave of protests in Southeast Europe". Boria02 (talk) 13:46, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- +1, Agreed Mavreju (talk) 12:23, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- +1, makes sense in its current form Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 12:42, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- The article still very much fails WP:V and WP:GNG, because there are likewise no reliable sources that would demonstrate the sufficient notability of the name "Southeast Europe protests". Thus, so far the article has the same issues, not to mention that it is trying to establish a connection between these protests in a WP:OR manner. Brat Forelli🦊 19:47, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Strong Keep Just look at the news and certain countries, it's an important event Yesyesmrcool (talk) 21:43, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete - Theres very little legitimate sources which refer to these disconnected protests as the Balkan Spring. This article, as OP stated, originates from Reddit and is a sort of attempt to make these events larger than life, like a movie. EmilePersaud (talk) 13:26, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep multiple protests across multiple countries with the same goal. Scuba 17:07, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: The term "balkan spring" certainly isn't appropriate, but there have been a surge of protests since October 2024. The best, most neutral, and most appropriate way to "do" this article would be as a smaller list Castroonthemoon (talk) 21:25, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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- Comment I've moved fraudulent !votes from an IP-hopping editor to the hatted section above. The WordsmithTalk to me 23:51, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Not a single reference has coined the term Balkan Spring. Completely original research title. Ecrusized (talk) 11:04, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- There is still valuable information in this article. Why not just change the title and keep the page? Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 11:05, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: I agree that the article should be kept. However, the term "Balkan spring", which I like, was used only on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1ji90u8/the_balkan_spring_is_here/ . The title "2024-2025 Eastern European/Balkan Protests" is more fit, at least until the press adopts the balkan spring term. Edward Mike005 (talk) 12:11, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- The term "2024-2025 Eastern European/Balkan Protests" would also need to be used by reliable sources however. Brat Forelli🦊 19:48, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: I agree that the article should be kept. However, the term "Balkan spring", which I like, was used only on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1ji90u8/the_balkan_spring_is_here/ . The title "2024-2025 Eastern European/Balkan Protests" is more fit, at least until the press adopts the balkan spring term. Edward Mike005 (talk) 12:11, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- There is still valuable information in this article. Why not just change the title and keep the page? Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 11:05, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Based on arguments already provided above. Rutdam (talk) 16:13, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- The problems here were no sources and the term of Balkan Spring. Both of these were resolved when you commented. So what’s the problem now? Mavreju (talk) 17:05, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- I don't see any sources for "Southeast Europe protests" either. Every one of those protest has its own article and this new article does not adds up anything new, it just summerizes every protest. The article is very OR with only one source backing the claim of the interrelated "Southeast European protests". Rutdam (talk) 18:06, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- I fully agree with this. If "Balkan Spring" already lacked sources to justify its usage on Wikipedia, then likewise, there are no reliable sources for "Southeast Europe protests" at all. Brat Forelli🦊 19:43, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- What difference does this article have with 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts in terms of "having separate problems in the region"? Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 08:13, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- I fully agree with this. If "Balkan Spring" already lacked sources to justify its usage on Wikipedia, then likewise, there are no reliable sources for "Southeast Europe protests" at all. Brat Forelli🦊 19:43, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- I don't see any sources for "Southeast Europe protests" either. Every one of those protest has its own article and this new article does not adds up anything new, it just summerizes every protest. The article is very OR with only one source backing the claim of the interrelated "Southeast European protests". Rutdam (talk) 18:06, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: If it looks like WP:OR and sounds like WP:OR, then it probably is WP:OR Allan Nonymous (talk) 19:52, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Draftify: Sources needed but i can see it becoming a thing in media so i would not delete it right away; also which boycotts are meant, 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts? Braganza (talk) 20:54, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This article was moved [17] during this AfD, at 11:07, 28 March 2025. Toadspike [Talk] 21:13, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- I am leaning towards deletion or draftification here. I am very much concerned about SYNTH and I haven't seen any sources describing all of these protests with disparate causes as a group. However, many of the original !votes were specifically objecting to the original title, which has now been replaced with a much broader and less SYNTHy title, which might make those objections moot. Toadspike [Talk] 21:17, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- After the name change, I lean keep — IмSтevan talk 21:23, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- The name change to Southeast Europe protests (2024–present) still leaves the title not describing the content of the article. Hungary is not in Southeast Europe and Slovakia is nowhere near it. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:04, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- For everyone that says Delete, can you please say why in detail? For example, what difference does it have with 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts? Which is also people inspired by each other. Why is one article ok, and the other is not? It's obvious that the people in these countries inspired by each other in the protests, and it's supported with sources. If you think this is not happening and not real, I would get the Delete vote, but saying that is kind of delusional imho. If you think if you have problems with wordings or sources, why don't you contribute and fix the article instead of deleting? Do we delete the Syrian civil war article just because we don't like wordings or sources? For some reason, even though there are sources and inspirations, I don't get why the authors here doesn't like to accept it. It's not about your personal opinion. Also, the people that say Slovakia is not in Southeast Europe, I can agree, but it's also in: 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts article too, that's why I'm not getting why it's ok in one article, but not in another. It reeks bias. For God's sake, even Czechia is colored in the article! And please don't come with "it's wrong in the other article too", no one is arguing if that article should be deleted there. Like I said, if you have problems with it, fix it. It's not that I care too much with this article, but I think it serves valuable information and trying to delete it seems contradictory to me. Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 08:07, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- these protests are independent from another, especially Romania & Greece Braganza (talk) 09:14, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Braganza already pointed out the problem briefly - the article seeks to combine all these protests and claims that they all represent a single movement, with shared goals. This is indeed unsourced and is a classic example of WP:OR. The article was created as "Balkan Spring" and AfD was created for this reason, as the thesis of the article lacks verifiable basis. The rename does not yet solve the issue.
Do we delete the Syrian civil war article just because we don't like wordings or sources?
- This article is not like the Syrian Civil War article however. It is more like an article named "Middle East Civil War" that tries to bundle all civil wars happening in the Middle East together as a part of something. Understandably so, such article would also be deleted.
that's why I'm not getting why it's ok in one article, but not in another.
- Per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS:
The nature of Wikipedia means that you cannot make a convincing argument based solely on whether other articles do or do not exist
. If the article's reason for existence hangs on the existence of 2025 Southeast Europe retail boycotts, then it should in fact be deleted. Brat Forelli🦊 11:15, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Draftify per WP:TOOSOON and WP:AtD, this may become a notable spinoff. It isn't notable enough for mainspace yet, though there's likely enough sources in other languages to establish notability DarmaniLink (talk) 16:39, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Draftify or delete the events are clearly notable on their own, but I fail to see a reason to make them part of a single event/movement. Seems that the main thing in common is the geographical proximity, which means nothing. Some sources might in the future make the connection but for now this seems like original research. Paprikaiser (talk) 00:22, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. There is no data to verify existence of a spring (an at least partially common sphere of influence), and as a Turkish person I can verify that protests not only don't have any connection, but also only ones that made it to Turkish news are Serbian ones, which wasn't a great interest in Turkish media.
Kemkhachev (talk) 04:15, 30 March 2025 (UTC) - Delete, looking up "Southeast Europe protests" I can only find a couple sources grouping protests in the region as a single unitary phenomenon, and not necessarily all of the countries in the article are mentioned, some of the protests in the article are due to unrelated reasons from the majority. Super Ψ Dro 10:30, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep but improve/split into two articles. I've already stated my arguments in the article talk page about no connection between Slovakia, Hungary and Georgia protests with the protests in Serbia, North Macedonia and Greece and the fact that the aforementioned countries are not from Southeast Europe geographically.Milosppf (talk) 11:41, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: this AfD nom needs to be re-made in light of the article name being changed This AfD nom has now gotten rather confusing, because when the article was created as Balkan Spring, it was indeed unreferenced and probably a good candidate for a speedy deletion. I would have supported deletion on the basis that there are no RS besides non-notable reddit threads and forums referring to any "Balkan Spring". However, there now in the last few days appears to be RS which connects the series of protests across Southeastern Europe together analytically (the Balkan Insight and Newsweek articles). Based on that new information, I might vote to keep - but that is a totally separate question from my position on the initial "Balkan Spring" issue. There is a confluence of rationales here, some of which are no longer useful or accurate. The result is that I think it is impossible for a true consensus to form from this AfD nom in particular. FlipandFlopped ツ 18:14, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Agreed - Though I don't exactly know how this process works. Can you recreate an AfD from scratch? Mavreju (talk) 21:37, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Seconded - my main objection was to the term itself, not to the events. This was listed on ANI too due to socking which brought in many !votes DarmaniLink (talk) 21:40, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- +1 from me too Orange-Puppy-2221 (talk) 21:43, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . Liz Read! Talk! 22:45, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Ihsan Isik (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG. Sources are not independent and reliable. Kadı Message 17:59, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Economics, Turkey, and United States of America. Kadı Message 17:59, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Louisiana, New Jersey, and Texas. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:51, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Clearly fails on notability. I could not find a single publication on google scholar. Also all links on the page just lead to the front page of the university, and the website on charter schools mentions him only in passing. So basically, the entire article is uncited. Pragmatic Puffin (talk) 08:13, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment I added the Google Scholar profile to the article. I see several highly-cited publications, in what I believe to be a higher citation field. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 14:31, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . ✗plicit 05:04, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- List of Albanian film chronicles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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List with unclear and subjective inclusion criteria. "Film chronicle" isn't a concept with a clear and unambiguous definition -- I can surmise that the films listed here are based on historical events, but that's a characteristic that can encompass both documentaries and fictionalized narrative films. So it's not at all clear where the line would be drawn between "based on historical events" and "actually fitting the precise technical definition of a chronicle", and thus the basis for inclusion here is down to personal interpretation rather than objective reliable source classification.
Lists of "film chronicles" do not otherwise exist for any other country but Albania, and we don't even have an article about the base concept of a "film chronicle" either. And when it comes to the more clear and unambiguous classification of documentary films (which some, but not all, of the films listed here would be), List of Albanian documentary films already exists (although it does need improvement as well), so converting this into a list of documentary films isn't necessary.
Further, this is just a list of entirely unlinked titles -- but the principal function of a list is to help readers find Wikipedia articles, so a list consisting entirely of unlinked names isn't useful. Bearcat (talk) 17:35, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Film and Albania. Bearcat (talk) 17:35, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:43, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 17:50, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 00:09, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
- Leech (2025 film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Draft moved back to main space without improvisation. Lacks Notability. Rahmatula786 (talk) 11:17, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Keep: The film have 2 notable reviews and make page notable Monhiroe (talk) 11:18, 19 March 2025 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: Monhiroe (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD.
- Can you add some more information to the sources for those reviews, like the date published and (if available) who wrote the review? That would help make them more verifiable. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (。◕‿◕。) 14:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- @ReaderofthePack: I have shown my view below. RangersRus (talk) 17:20, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Can you add some more information to the sources for those reviews, like the date published and (if available) who wrote the review? That would help make them more verifiable. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (。◕‿◕。) 14:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: reviews, meets the usually-agreed-upon requirements for films. -Mushy Yank. 20:09, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: Passes WP:NFILM as it has received two independent reviews.Jitendra indulkar (talk) 12:36, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment. The reviews are images. But I see problem here. The page says the review from Dinamalar and Malaimalar but the reviews sort of show identical views and do not show if they are from Dinamalar and Malaimalar. Dinamalar says "Producer Anoop Ratna is playing the hero Karthi. Megha, Kannan, Nizam Calicut, Thangamuthu, Suhail, Pakar, Sandy, Abhinav, Gayatri have acted with him. There is nothing wrong with their acting. Through this story, director S.M. shows how bad people are when they are alone. He has said. The film puts forward the idea that women should not always allow themselves to be surrounded by loneliness. Cinematographer Arun T. Sasi is to be commended for showing the beauty of the forest. Music composer Kiran Jose has composed the background score well." Malaimalar says "The film tells us that women should always be aware that they should not allow themselves to feel lonely. Cinematographer Arun Sasi is commendable for bringing out the beauty of the forest. Although the characters do not speak much in the film, the background music is used throughout the film. The weakness of the film is the lack of compelling scenes." One more source from Dinakaran, is hardly a review about the film and it is very amateurly written review that is also sort of identical to above reviews that says "The actors have acted appropriately for the roles of Dr. Karthi, Megha, and Sandy Akbar. Producer Anoop Rathna himself plays the hero Karthi. Along with him, Megha, Kannan, Nizam Calicut, Thangamuthu, Suhail, Bakkar, Sandy, Abhinav, and Gayathri act. There is no flaw in their acting. Cinematographer Arun T. Sasi is commendable. Kiran Jose has composed the background music well. The film is written and directed by S.M." This does not seem to come from professional critics. @Monhiroe: and AShiv1212. RangersRus (talk) 16:33, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- First, I want to clarify that I have not added any of my own words in this; I have only translated Tamil into English and included it here. If you want, I can copy the Tamil language as it is and give it to you here. Then you can translate it into English yourself and satisfy your mind. AShiv1212 (talk) 17:02, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Research was after reading and translating and that is what I have shown in the comment with translation above. RangersRus (talk) 17:08, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- RangersRus (talk) You have raised very important aspect with deeper assessment. Agree with above views. Rahmatula786 (talk) 17:12, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Local newspaper journalists are often not big, well-known names. They are either still learning the ropes or write like copy editors. For example, if you look at Kannada film reviews from 2011, you’ll notice that 3-4 newspapers or news channels would simply copy each other’s content.
- More importantly, smaller films don’t get as much news coverage as they deserve, and whatever coverage they do receive often results in reviews of this kind AShiv1212 (talk) 17:20, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Research was after reading and translating and that is what I have shown in the comment with translation above. RangersRus (talk) 17:08, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- First, I want to clarify that I have not added any of my own words in this; I have only translated Tamil into English and included it here. If you want, I can copy the Tamil language as it is and give it to you here. Then you can translate it into English yourself and satisfy your mind. AShiv1212 (talk) 17:02, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to further establish consensus in available sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 17:47, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: Film has references for reliable sources and passes WP:NFILM
Anish Viswa 04:52, 28 March 2025 (UTC) - Keep. It is a notable film that just came out this year two weeks ago. I see it in IMDB and think it will be reviewed more as time goes on. Ramos1990 (talk)
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 22:47, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Episcopal Church of the Resurrection (Pleasant Hill, California) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article about a non-notable church that is written in promotional tone. I was unable to find any significant sources about it. WhoIsCentreLeft (talk) 16:48, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Speedy Delete - This article was written in 2012 by User:Resurrection Pleasant Hill CA. The original author was indefinitely blocked in 2013. As with WhoIsCentreLeft above, I did not find available sources on the net. — Maile (talk) 18:14, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete - for having the church itself write the article, and the church failing GNG. ロドリゲス恭子 (talk) 18:34, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: I don't think it's G11-worthy but it's not notable. Nowhere close to WP:GNG. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:24, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per Dclemens1971 and my own longstanding standards. Without going through the entire list, it's less than 100 years old, it's not on the National Register of Historic Places, there have been no notable congregants or rectors associated with it, it's not notable for its music, nor have any notable funerals been held there. On the other hand, "It was designed by a notable architect, and/or is notable for its architecture," which saves it from speedy deletion. That's far below what I expect from a notable and historic church. For what it's worth, I have worshiped in that diocese, but have never been to that particular church. Bearian (talk) 01:23, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete if no RS citations can be added to support or salvage the article. even a brief search on the net has been unable to find any WP:SIGCOV of the subject. Villkomoses (talk) 13:20, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete article has been here since 2013 and has not improved. Seems the creator was very close to the subject. Ramos1990 (talk)
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The result was delete per WP:BLP1E. RL0919 (talk) 22:55, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Kate King (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I do not see that any of the citations are substantial enough to establish notability, & could not find anything better; search throws up other people with the same name TheLongTone (talk) 15:56, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Sourced entirely to Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, and an interview; the only sources not those are not in fact about this person. The YouTube account has been emptied, and the Twitter posts are marked as "parody". This falls far below the sourcing bar for biographies. Delete. Uncle G (talk) 20:07, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete for lack of significant coverage - everything except one incident is entirely sourced by social media. That one incident is terrible, and sourced by BBC, but is a classic WP:BLP1E situation. I'm not excusing any racist jokes: I'm saying it's just not notable. Bearian (talk)
- Delete: Subject lacks the sustained coverage to meet the WP:GNG. Appears to be a WP:BLP1E. Let'srun (talk) 02:27, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:16, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 22:56, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Nesquik (disambiguation) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Useless disambiguation page per WP:ONEOTHER. The primary topic article already has a hatnote, the other article links back to the primary topic in its first sentence. PROD was contested back in 2013 with this edit (warning: NSFW), so I guess this has to go through AfD. Back then there were two other "Nesquik" articles, but both now redirect to the main article. Toadspike [Talk] 15:01, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete for simplification, also found List of Nestlé brands that does seems to already differentiate the Names apart like Nestlé, Nesquik and Nesquik (cereal).Villkomoses (talk) 13:48, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete. A disambiguation page is not required. All uses are mentioned at the primary topic article. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 15:18, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was redirect to Heilongjiang University as an AtD. The sole "keep" !voter did not convince others that the newly added sources constituted WP:SIGCOV. (non-admin closure) Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:05, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
- Harbin Jewish Research Center (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP BEFORE did not help; not notable ORG per NORG, no relialbe sources. Cinder painter (talk) 15:01, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Redirect to Heilongjiang University as WP:ATD. Longhornsg (talk) 16:37, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Heilongjiang University per above.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:28, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment – The subject's Chinese name is "哈尔滨犹太研究中心". A quick web search turned up some coverage. [20][21] I will look further later, but this article shouldn't be redirected without any analysis of available Chinese-language sources. Toadspike [Talk] 09:35, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- (Since I haven't made this clear yet, this should be redirected per my comments below.) Toadspike [Talk] 10:13, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Leaning Redirect to Heilongjiang University: It seems that the center is also known as 黑龙江省社会科学院犹太研究所,[22] but searching for both names in Chinese still does not yield anything useful in my Google search. The first source provided by Toadspike (from the West Asia and Africa journal via Sohu) is excellent, but the second one, along with most of the news articles I found, primarily discusses various projects or works that the Center has been involved in. Most of these articles only mention it in passing and could hardly be used to expand the article. I believe a redirect to Heilongjiang University is a sensible ATD per WP:NOPAGE at this point, but I noticed that a news article mentioned the researchers from the Center were interviewed by Der Spiegel,[23] so there may still be some German or other language sources available. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 13:11, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- The Spiegel piece appears to be this one, with this later piece quoting a professor of this Center at the end. Probably not sigcov for the center, but Jews in Harbin certainly seems like a notable topic. Toadspike [Talk] 21:45, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Since both articles are paywalled and written in a language I am not familiar with, I will defer to your source assessment, Toadspike. I agree that Jews in Harbin appears to be a promising topic, and it could serve as a better redirect/merge target if an article is created in the future. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 08:48, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Prince of Erebor If you're interested, you can access them via archive.today: [24] and [25]. Toadspike [Talk] 10:10, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks, Toadspike! So the first article only mentions the Center once, stating that it was established by the Heilongjiang Academy of Social Sciences in 2000. The second article mentions it only when introducing interviewee Zhang Tiejiang as a professor of the research center. Both are indeed passing mentions. ——👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 12:30, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Since both articles are paywalled and written in a language I am not familiar with, I will defer to your source assessment, Toadspike. I agree that Jews in Harbin appears to be a promising topic, and it could serve as a better redirect/merge target if an article is created in the future. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 08:48, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- KEEP there is significant coverage of this center which passes GNG. Added citations and text to the article Lilyonthepond (talk) 19:48, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- The newly added Chinese sources are essentially the same ones I found, all of which mention the Center only once or twice in passing, focusing primarily on their research projects. I took a look at the English sources as well, and in the first Jerusalem Post article, the Center is mentioned only once in relation to a synagogue model they built, while the second JP article does not even refer to the Center by name. Both Pan and Kolterman's books mention the Center only once in their research, and the US-China Review, which seems to be the most "comprehensive" source so far, contains just two sentences documenting the establishment of the Center and an exhibition it hosted while tracing the history of Jewish studies in Harbin. Everything currently cited in the article and what I have encountered so far only mentions the Center in passing and hardly qualifies as WP:SIGCOV. —👑PRINCE of EREBOR📜 08:48, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . ✗plicit 14:57, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- PFH Private University of Applied Sciences (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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All references are from primary sources, and the article sounds promotional/advert Uncle Bash007 (talk) 14:54, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: A search on JSTOR for "PFH Private University of Applied Sciences" returned only 1 result, suggesting limited scholarly coverage. HerBauhaus (talk) 06:48, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was draftify. Consensus was against leaving in mainspace, but there was no support beyond the nominator for outright deletion. (non-admin closure) Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:07, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
- 2025 Australia Jillaroos tour of England (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unverifiable. The two sources given for the relevant information[26][27] both discuss England touring Australia, not the other way around. The article has mostly irrelevant information, and nothing about the supposed tour of the Australian women in England in 2025, and it doesn't seem to be easily verifiable either. Fram (talk) 13:58, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Keep: Article is indeed mostly verifiable. Ref no. 1 states that the tour will happen (albeit it in Australia). Refs 5-7 all state how the "GBR or ENG" will be applicable to both men's, women's, and wheelchair. Ref 12 stating game 1 of the tour will be in Las Vegas, plus Refs 12-15 about that game itself. All in all 8/15 refs explicitly state the happening of the women's tour and 7/15 giving wider context.
Only thing uncertain, is the location, as refs for host change (in men's article) don't say anything explicit about the women's tour. With that I could see an argument for draftification until such confirmation, but the article has too many sources for it to be deleted. Mn1548 (talk) 14:26, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- But there are no sources at all about a women's tour in England, right? So how is that "too many to be deleted"? Fram (talk) 14:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- No sources about a women's tour in England, but plenty about the tour itself. If anything, given the specific of what is in the sources, articles should probably be renamed backed to "Lionesses tour of Australia". My point is that deleting an article due to uncertainty about the specific location of a tour is ridiculous given that their are plenty of sources about the tour itself. Especially when the first game has already been played. Mn1548 (talk) 15:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- You created "2025 Australia Jillaroos tour of England" without knowing whether they would actually tour England or not? Really? And you consider the deletion "ridiculous" and claim that the article is "mostly verifiable" because, well, it has no information about the actual subject, a tour of England. Good luck with your bolded "keep" vote, I have to say... Fram (talk) 15:36, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- ...an article created as a result of a concensus to split from another article which itself passed the draft process by another editor reviewing it. The lack a a concrete source for ONE aspect of the article SHOULD NOT constitute deletion. Mn1548 (talk) 16:18, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- The "ONE" aspect is the actual subject of the article, no biggie... Fram (talk) 16:27, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- So when Euro 2020 was in the grey zone of will it be 2020 or 2021 should the Wikipedia article have been deleted because we weren't sure? No, regardless of where the series will take place 90/95% of the information is still relevant. A page move and editing the article to represent the changes should occur, as it does literally everywhere else on Wikipedia. Mn1548 (talk) 16:33, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- You mean that tournament which had been completely planned, for which dozens of qualification matches had been played, for which probably tickets had been sold, and so on? You really mean to compare such an event to something which has vaguely been announced in October and where nothing more concrete has happened since (and no, a March match in Vegas is not "something concrete" for a tour in England months later if at all)? Fram (talk) 16:52, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- So when Euro 2020 was in the grey zone of will it be 2020 or 2021 should the Wikipedia article have been deleted because we weren't sure? No, regardless of where the series will take place 90/95% of the information is still relevant. A page move and editing the article to represent the changes should occur, as it does literally everywhere else on Wikipedia. Mn1548 (talk) 16:33, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- The "ONE" aspect is the actual subject of the article, no biggie... Fram (talk) 16:27, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Further, another editor has since found a source stating the the host change will also affect the women's series. Mn1548 (talk) 16:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- ...an article created as a result of a concensus to split from another article which itself passed the draft process by another editor reviewing it. The lack a a concrete source for ONE aspect of the article SHOULD NOT constitute deletion. Mn1548 (talk) 16:18, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- You created "2025 Australia Jillaroos tour of England" without knowing whether they would actually tour England or not? Really? And you consider the deletion "ridiculous" and claim that the article is "mostly verifiable" because, well, it has no information about the actual subject, a tour of England. Good luck with your bolded "keep" vote, I have to say... Fram (talk) 15:36, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- No sources about a women's tour in England, but plenty about the tour itself. If anything, given the specific of what is in the sources, articles should probably be renamed backed to "Lionesses tour of Australia". My point is that deleting an article due to uncertainty about the specific location of a tour is ridiculous given that their are plenty of sources about the tour itself. Especially when the first game has already been played. Mn1548 (talk) 15:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: Previous WikiProject discussion on splitting the article from 2025 Kangaroo tour of England and France. Mn1548 (talk) 15:32, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: This is an unusual situation. I can't think, off-hand, of a case where a tour was announced then one side says "hang on, can we make it the other way round", then the first game gets played with the rest of the tour still unconfirmed. I've edited the article to make it clear this is a putative tour at the moment but with sources showing that it is intended to be happen and in England. If it doesn't happen then we can consider if the events surrounding the whole history make it a notable event or not. Nthep (talk) 16:20, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- The "best" source makes it clear that "The tour hasn't been confirmed and planning remains in the preliminary stages", and now, five months later, nothing more is known, but still we need to keep an article? Massive WP:CRYSTAL failure. Fram (talk) 16:26, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's not crystal when the event has already started and Las Vegas was always considered to be part of the series. Nthep (talk) 16:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- The "event" which hasn't been confirmed, which hasn't been planned, and where the match that did happen wasn't anywhere near England? Uh, yes, that's textbook WP:CRYSTAL. There is nothing concrete to suggest that there will be a 2025 tour of England, all we have are vague plans and a match months earlier in a different country (I mean, it's not as if the squad is supposed to travel from Vegas to England...). Fram (talk) 16:50, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- "Hasn't been planned"? By that logic the men's tour wasn't planned yesterday and when through the entire process overnight. I feel its also worth noting that given the rate of which international rugby league tournaments are being announced at the moment (4 in the past 8 days) this discussion might end up being completely redundant. Also, Ntheps point is a good one. The women's Ashes has already started, its already 1-0 Australia. Its not like this article is only based of the sourcing from 2023 stating that their will be a tour at some point in two years, it's actually begun. Mn1548 (talk) 17:02, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- The tour of England has begun? That's news... And "planned" as in, we have dates and places. Here we don't have anything. At all. "this discussion might end up being completely redundant." Obviously, so what? Again, that's a WP:CRYSTAL argument, "but it may be announced in the next few hours, days, weeks!". Fram (talk) 17:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Like I said it's unusual, having 2/3rds of a series still unconfirmed when 1/3rd has already happened. Rename the article 2025 Women's rugby league Ashes then the "but it's not in England" which appears to be your main concern goes away. If the rest happens then great we have a three match series to write about, if it doesn't then we have "what was envisaged as three but ended up as only one and why" to write about. Nthep (talk) 17:07, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's even hard to find sources that describe the Vegas match as part of The Ashes, actually... Nothing in the Irish Independent[28] or the Daily Mail, BBC[29], Fox, Total Rugby League, ... nothing about this being part of a series or of being part of the Ashes. Fram (talk) 17:25, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Quote from Rhodri Jones, managing director of RL Commercial in September "especially as we have the Ashes Tours against Australia in 2025, which of course begins with a historic fixture in Las Vegas for England Women against the Jillaroos."[1] Nthep (talk) 17:34, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- So some commercial director tries to sell it as an Ashes tour, and no (or very few certainly) reliable independent sources actually adopt/believe/use this, and treat it like a separate match, a one-off, instead. Good thing we go with what the reliable, independent sources say then. Fram (talk) 17:48, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- IRL the sports governing body said "The Las Vegas fixture will count as part of the historic Ashes series between the two nations"[2] acknowledging that the same article (from July 2024) goes on to say England in Australia. Per WP:PRIMARY that looks to me like a "straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge" Nthep (talk) 18:00, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- "The Las Vegas fixture will count as part of the historic Ashes series between the two nations, which will continue when England travel to Australia at the end of the 2025 season." So who knows whether that still applies? If the series no longer happens, is the lone match then still part of (or the whole of) the Ashes, or not? All one can say is that it was intended in July 2024 to be part of the Ashes series. Fram (talk) 18:09, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- IRL the sports governing body said "The Las Vegas fixture will count as part of the historic Ashes series between the two nations"[2] acknowledging that the same article (from July 2024) goes on to say England in Australia. Per WP:PRIMARY that looks to me like a "straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge" Nthep (talk) 18:00, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- So some commercial director tries to sell it as an Ashes tour, and no (or very few certainly) reliable independent sources actually adopt/believe/use this, and treat it like a separate match, a one-off, instead. Good thing we go with what the reliable, independent sources say then. Fram (talk) 17:48, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Quote from Rhodri Jones, managing director of RL Commercial in September "especially as we have the Ashes Tours against Australia in 2025, which of course begins with a historic fixture in Las Vegas for England Women against the Jillaroos."[1] Nthep (talk) 17:34, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's even hard to find sources that describe the Vegas match as part of The Ashes, actually... Nothing in the Irish Independent[28] or the Daily Mail, BBC[29], Fox, Total Rugby League, ... nothing about this being part of a series or of being part of the Ashes. Fram (talk) 17:25, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- "Hasn't been planned"? By that logic the men's tour wasn't planned yesterday and when through the entire process overnight. I feel its also worth noting that given the rate of which international rugby league tournaments are being announced at the moment (4 in the past 8 days) this discussion might end up being completely redundant. Also, Ntheps point is a good one. The women's Ashes has already started, its already 1-0 Australia. Its not like this article is only based of the sourcing from 2023 stating that their will be a tour at some point in two years, it's actually begun. Mn1548 (talk) 17:02, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- The "event" which hasn't been confirmed, which hasn't been planned, and where the match that did happen wasn't anywhere near England? Uh, yes, that's textbook WP:CRYSTAL. There is nothing concrete to suggest that there will be a 2025 tour of England, all we have are vague plans and a match months earlier in a different country (I mean, it's not as if the squad is supposed to travel from Vegas to England...). Fram (talk) 16:50, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's not crystal when the event has already started and Las Vegas was always considered to be part of the series. Nthep (talk) 16:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- The "best" source makes it clear that "The tour hasn't been confirmed and planning remains in the preliminary stages", and now, five months later, nothing more is known, but still we need to keep an article? Massive WP:CRYSTAL failure. Fram (talk) 16:26, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Draftify until we have confirmation of this all actually going forward. The text shouldn't be lost now, but we shouldn't be detailing what for now is merely a proposed tour in mainspace. Nathannah • 📮 19:32, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Draftify for now – I would love Wikipedia to have better coverage of the women's game, but this is limited by the quality/quantity of sources available – It can be moved back if/when there are more sources to confirm details, but as was noted in Rugby Leaguer & League Express after the Vegas match: "There was supposed to be a women's Ashes series this year, but talk of that dissipated very quickly. I've asked the RFL, the NRL and the international board what's going on and no one seems to know" (No.3741, 10 March 2025, p.9). EdwardUK (talk) 17:37, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Draftify per WP:TOOSOON. Article can be moved back into mainspace if and when we have confirmation that the series is going ahead. J Mo 101 (talk) 11:51, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:10, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Ugochukwu Chime (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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lacks significant independent coverage, relies on non-reliable sources, or serves as promotional content rather than a neutral Old-AgedKid (talk) 12:56, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete: For those who care, this is just a nonsensical effort to advertise one CEO, lacks a byline and fails WP:IRS. Overall, the subject fails WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:58, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: One of sixty CEO's in Nigeria is a flimsy claim to notability, when they're already know for using puffy language. I can't find anything further about this individual, I don't see notability. Oaktree b (talk) 14:22, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Yet more WP:NOTLINKEDIN cruft for another non-notable business leader who just takes credit for things everyone else in their company does. Nathannah • 📮 17:01, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. – References are passing mentions, unreliable, etc. Not enough news coverage.Mysecretgarden (talk) 08:13, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:24, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Sources are not independent to satisfy the general notability criteria. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 06:49, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 23:05, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Ved Prakash Upadhyay (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article was created by a confirmed sockpuppet identified in the SPI case Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Lazy-restless/Archive. The creation by a blocked user tied to the "Lazy-restless" investigation suggests potential WP:POV pushing. The subject does not meet WP:GNG, as no sources provide sufficient coverage. NXcrypto Message 12:45, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: Major portion of this article sources copied by sock from deleted articles, see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar Aur Muhammad Saheb, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad (book) (3rd nomination), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad (book) (2nd nomination), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avtar aur Muhammad sahib (book). It was also spammed by Lazy-restless IPs and socks, e.g., Hindi Wiki (history) using IP 202.134.10.142, IP 202.134.10.136, IP 202.134.10.131, IP 202.134.11.228, and Assad Jibran (blocked as a Lazy-restless sock). Created by Lazy-restless on Malayalam Wiki (history), Turkish Wiki (history), Fiji Hindi Wiki (history), Malay Wiki (history), Urdu Wiki (history), Arabic Wiki (history), Punjabi Wiki (history with IP 103.66.169.1), Sanskrit Wiki (history with IP 202.134.11.228 and IP 103.230.104.41), and Kashmiri Wiki (history with IP 103.230.106.29). All tied to the banned user IP range, and the majority of these IPs are blocked. NXcrypto Message 13:20, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete: I see no links in Jstor or Gscholar about this individual, the rest of the sourcing doesn't seem appropriate for a scholar. Oaktree b (talk) 14:35, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Still not notable. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 15:04, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete: No sources are indicative of the person being a scholar or for that matter being notable Flyingphoenixchips (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:30, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:09, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment - I received an email from User:Abdullahil Hai saying, "Please see [30]". Just noting this here so people are aware of any potential canvassing. – DreamRimmer (talk) 03:16, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment I did also. —A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 21:38, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Abdullahil Hai has now been blocked for sockpuppetry. NXcrypto Message 04:54, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Comment I did also. —A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 21:38, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep per the evidence I presented at the first AfD which was closed as no consensus and “a train wreck” by Liz. Read it and your eyes will bleed: meatpuppets and sockpuppets galore with lots of personal attacks. The nominator was subsequently banned. I will try to dig up my refs and post them here tomorrow. The subject of this article tried to find common theological ground between Islam and Hinduism which was anathema to partisans on both sides. This AfD is off to a more civil start — fingers crossed. —A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 21:53, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- I suggest an admin lock this to ECP editing only to prevent trouble. —A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 22:54, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- So far, so good. If it becomes a big problem we can protect it then. -- asilvering (talk) 21:14, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- canvassing ? NXcrypto Message 19:41, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- @NXcrypto, see my comment in this discussion yesterday (above). A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 20:03, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- The argument that was mainly used by the Keep supporters during the last AfD was that the subject is a winner of Rashtrapati Award, but that award is political, not an academic award. There are no sources that have justified the existence of this article. CharlesWain (talk) 05:59, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- I suggest an admin lock this to ECP editing only to prevent trouble. —A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 22:54, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and WP:NAUTHOR. I don't see anything convincing in the last AfD. This individual is yet to win a notable academic honour. Captain AmericanBurger1775 (talk) 18:36, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- KEEP, enough referencing for the article. Any conflicting in contents should be addressed in the article. --محمود (talk) 11:48, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- KEEP- हिमाल सुबेदी (talk) 11:51, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete and probably salt given what an absolute mess this is. 90 percent of the article is about the subject's most well-known book, which according to the last four AFD discussions [31] [32] [33] [34] is almost certainly not notable. Take that away and there's no case for meeting WP:NAUTHOR or WP:NACADEMIC. Astaire (talk) 20:40, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:10, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Maxim Recruitment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Company is not notable - Google search reveals no reliable news and few other sources. Existing references over-reliant on company-derived PR material (plus non-reliable LinkedIn and company website). Paul W (talk) 12:37, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Clearly fails GNG. Delete as per nomination. Given sources are not significant neither secondary. Rahmatula786 (talk) 13:25, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete. I haven't been able to find any independent coverage. Toadspike [Talk] 22:35, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per the lack of significant coverage in reliable sources. I did not find sources about the company in my searches for sources. Maxim Recruitment does not meet Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Primary criteria. Cunard (talk) 23:49, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG and WP:NCORP.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:25, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails WP:ORGSIG and WP:ORGCRITE, no valid secondary sourcing. m a MANÍ1990(talk | contribs) 23:19, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . ✗plicit 14:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Democratic structuring (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article has been tagged since 2010 as relying excessively on primary sources. Looking over it now, the only source cited in the article is Jo Freeman's essay "The Tyranny of Structurelessness", which it quotes so heavily from that this article is effectively a copyright violation (see Earwig results).
Looking for the term "democratic structuring" as defined by Freeman on Google Scholar, none of the sources appear to give the concept any analysis that is independent of wider commentary on the essay.[35] It appears there could be basis for an article on democratic structuring outside of its definition by Freeman, but this would be an entirely different article.[36]
Due to the extreme problems with this article, I'm nominating it for deletion. "Democratic structuring" could be redirected to the article on The Tyranny of Structurelessness, but in my opinion, this should only be done after this version is deleted due to copyvio. Grnrchst (talk) 12:30, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete – Usually in cases like these I would vote to redirect or merge the article, maybe to the author of the concept (Jo Freeman), but there is nothing of substance that is not problematic (copyvio) to merge, and the target has nothing in-depth about the topic. Yue🌙 18:12, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. No prejudice against further review if the subject makes a request via WP:VRT. Mojo Hand (talk) 23:35, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Marsha Moses (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject has requested the page be deleted. Jesswade88 (talk) 15:35, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
- Procedurally re-listed as the original nom didn't make it to the AfD log. Ed [talk] [OMT] 22:35, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Jesswade88, How do you know that she wants her article removed? Is there anything personal that she wants removed or redacted? Bearian (talk) 10:23, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
- Dr. Moses has personally requested that this whole profile be removed. Can this please be done as soon as possible? 134.174.21.28 (talk) 16:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cinder painter (talk) 12:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: The three fellowships and the hospital positions show notability, she has a large list in Gscholar, but I can't pull up her h-index. Oaktree b (talk) 14:37, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. Meets WP:ANYBIO due to multiple awards. Subject is a professor at Harvard Medical School, has received prestigious honors like election to the National Academy of Medicine, and has made groundbreaking discoveries in the molecular mechanisms of tumor growth.Mysecretgarden (talk) 09:21, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Jesswade88 do you know why the subject wants the article deleted? As it stands it seems like a pretty bland and unobjectionable bio - no personal details, rather positive. (I swear there's a policy on what to do if the article subject requests deletion, but I can't find it now. I believe it is "presumption in favor of deletion if marginally notable, otherwise keep"?)
- Procedural keep: I think Moses is notable based on evidence presented above, but I also generally weigh WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE heavily in the case of someone non-prominent. However, we don't have any evidence presented of an actual request from Moses, just an editor and an IP saying Moses has made this request. In that case, I think we should "keep" with no prejudice against having another discussion should we get confirmation that Moses is requesting deletion. To provide that confirmation, Moses may follow the WP:VRT procedure listed at WP:BLPHELP. If we get confirmation from VRT in this debate, would someone ping me as I will be happy to reconsider my !vote at that time. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:16, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:10, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Kenta Kurishima (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article was previously deleted by prod so nominating. Played 22 times professionally [37] before dropping down to non league. Article has primary sources. Fails GNG. RossEvans19 (talk) 11:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete – Corresponding article on Japanese Wikipedia relies too much on press release news. No evidence of SIGCOV. ⋆。˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚。⋆ 13:38, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 19:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Nobuhiro Uetani (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Tried to propose, previously denied. Made 12 appearances [38] in Singapore before dropping down into non league. Fails GNG. RossEvans19 (talk) 11:24, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete. No hope based on the (lack of) achivements and the lack of sources in Japanese Wikipedia. Geschichte (talk) 13:22, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per Geschichte. ⋆。˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚。⋆ 13:36, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 16:02, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 19:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was merge to Asaram. Valereee and others are correct in asserting that it doesn't matter whether the festival is recognized, fabricated, new, inauthentic or societally risky. However, I see a rough consensus among those who engaged with the sources and are familiar with our notability guidelines that the sources that are reliable did not offer SIGCOV beyond the scope of the proposed merge target. Owen× ☎ 12:23, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
- Tulsi Pujan Diwas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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As per Hindu tradition, no recognized observance is known as Tulsi Pujan Diwas. This so-called event is a fabricated concept introduced and propagated by a convicted individual to influence public perception and shape a narrative to serve personal or ideological interests. True Hindu customs and rituals have evolved over centuries through deeply rooted spiritual and cultural practices, and any attempt to artificially engineer or impose new observances without a historical or scriptural basis raises concerns. Such efforts to modify religious beliefs and practices through deliberate social engineering not only lack authenticity but also pose a risk of distorting traditional faith and misleading followers. Therefore, the legitimacy and intent behind such artificially created events remain highly questionable. Charlie (talk) 10:59, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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Weak delete Keep ormerge to Asaram I found one academic reference but it's from a small local journal whose provenance I have no information about. [39] It does show up as a reference in a few books but only ever in the context of Asaram Bapu there is some news coverage of the festival but all of it comes from local press which means it's not particularly widespread coverage. I could be persuaded to keep if there are sources I'm missing but this is a marginal case. Simonm223 (talk) 11:55, 26 March 2025 (UTC)- [40] doesn't look local. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Very little of what you (OP) said is reason to delete a WP-article. Failing WP:N is the basic reason to delete. If there are WP:RS that notes criticism of this festival, perhaps that can be added too. Per Tulsi Pujan Diwas 2024: Date, rituals, and significance (India Today), other views than yours exist. That said, there may be reason to delete, or merge to Tulasi in Hinduism or another article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:26, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- A merge to Tulasi in Hinduism seems an appropriate outcome here. That concedes there's something notable here but possibly not enough to sustain an article. Simonm223 (talk) 12:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Refining my !vote on the basis of the discussion below. Simonm223 (talk) 11:56, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
- A merge to Tulasi in Hinduism seems an appropriate outcome here. That concedes there's something notable here but possibly not enough to sustain an article. Simonm223 (talk) 12:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- I'll stick to sources in English, it's harder for me to guess WP:RS-ness of others. I looked at these:
- India-West 2017 "Tulsi Pujan Diwas Celebrated by Hundreds in Bay Area". It's in the WP-library, short but on-topic.
- The Economic Times 2022 [41]
- The Hans India 2023 [42]
- India Today 2024 [43]
- The Times of India 2024 [44]
- I also found an interesting comment in The Hindu I put in the article[45].
- Per these, I'm at weak keep. It would be nice to have something more academic, but it's a relatively new thing and I'm told the originator is otherwise engaged. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:00, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Weak keep - I too would like to see more academic sources, but it looks like there are somewhat reliable sources on the topic as described above. Gommeh (talk/contribs) 18:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Merge into Asaram Bapu, where an appropriate sentence can be added. We have enough sources to attest that Asaram Bapu promulgated this festival in 2014 (eg, [46]) but little independent reliable sourcing of anything else.
- Despite superficial appearances of the sources listed above, there is no evidence of the "festival" being celebrated widely or its notability independent of Asaram Bapu. Most/all of news articles cited are mere re-publications of press releases and third-party content as should be obvious from reading the puff-pieces or noting the disclaimer at the bottom of the Economic Times article. See also WP:NEWSORGINDIA on how this is a common, often unmarked, practice in Indian media and does not contribute to the subject's notability.
- And this article in a newly formed journal with a single issue is neither a reliable source, nor is it talking about the subject of the wikipedia article; the "Tulsi Pujan Diwas" it is referring to falls on "eleventh day of the bright fortnight of Kartik month (also known as Dev Uthani Ekadashi)", ie roughly mid-November as opposed to the Christmas-alternative established by Asaram Bapu. Abecedare (talk) 20:02, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- That refers to Tulasi Vivaha, which is the actual event according to Hindu traditions. Charlie (talk) 04:25, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. The sources found by GGS seem to indicate that there is sufficient notability for this to be kept, if barely, and the nomination feels much more like a case of WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS rather than based in Wikipedia policy. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:03, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment The origin of Tulsi Pujan Diwas is very recent; it started by Asaram on 25 December 2014 (Hindi). Despite this, he and his sect have been declared fake by the Akhil Bharatiya Akhara Parishad, the apex organization of Hindu sants (saints) and sadhus (ascetics) in India. This event should not be mistaken for Tulasi Vivaha, which is, in fact, the primary and sole event observed by Hindus on the day of Kartika Purnima. Charlie (talk) 04:21, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. It doesn't matter whether the observance is recognized. It doesn't matter whether it's fabricated, or why, or by whom. It doesn't matter whether it's new, lacks authenticity or poses a societal risk. What matters is whether it is notable. Valereee (talk) 13:49, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment Being receptive to Valereee and GGS' comments I'm changing my !vote from weak deletion to weak keep or merge. I still feel the citations might be a bit scant for a full article but it's clear there's at least some minimal notability here. Simonm223 (talk) 13:52, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Merge to Asaram, Tulasi in Hinduism, and/or Tulsi. The religious significance of the plant in various branches of Hinduism isn't in doubt, and there is lots of source material about it, including scholarly sources (which indeed is why Tulasi in Hinduism exists). But much of the material I'm seeing related to this title refers to the general phenomenon of religious belief or ritual related to the plant, not to this specific observance. The article as it stands has three sentences related specifically to this observance, and I cannot find anything else citeable to reliable, intellectually independent sources. As such a standalone article is not justified: the announcement of the observance can be sufficiently documented at Asaram, and the ritual at Tulasi in Hinduism: the satire does not strike me as encyclopedic. TL:DR; Contra several colleagues above, there isn't SIGCOV specific to this observance, only to the place of this plant in Hindu belief and practice. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:52, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Merge to Asaram. It is still far behind the minimum requirement when it comes to meeting WP:GNG. Dympies (talk) 00:57, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete The article on Tulsi Pujan Diwas fails to meet Wikipedia’s core policies for inclusion, particularly the General Notability Guidelines (WP:GNG), as it lacks substantial coverage from multiple, independent, and reliable sources. The observance itself was created in 2014 by Asaram Bapu, making it a recent and artificially introduced event rather than an organically evolved tradition within Hinduism. Unlike established Hindu festivals such as Tulasi Vivaha, which has deep-rooted religious and scriptural significance, Tulsi Pujan Diwas exists only within the sphere of Asaram Bapu’s influence and has not gained broad cultural or religious acceptance outside his following. The sources cited in support of the article are largely press releases and promotional content, violating Wikipedia’s guidelines on reliable sourcing (WP:NEWSORGINDIA) and neutral point of view (WP:NPOV), as Indian media often republish unverified statements without editorial scrutiny. This observance has not been the subject of scholarly research or detailed academic discussion, which further weakens its claim to notability, as Wikipedia prioritizes topics with long-term, independent significance rather than temporary, sect-specific practices. Additionally, per Wikipedia’s event notability policy (WP:EVENT), Tulsi Pujan Diwas does not have a sustained impact or independent historical validation, making its existence on Wikipedia tenuous at best. Flyingphoenixchips (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:37, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep Many news papers are deliver the massage to society celebration of "Tulsi Pujan Divas" on the 25 December .[3]
Times of India a public authentic news paper also says importance of Tulsi Pujan Divas and were celebrated by uncountable people last year and from many past years. [4]. According to you if imagine only a particular following are celebrating a particular festival widely in world on same day then are they not part of world or countable in world? But Reality it that in society ,government Schools, collage, Hindu's home are celebrating 25 December Tulsi Pujan Divas and many others religions also worship and lightning lamp to live plant of Tulsi instead plastic tree. lot of videos are available on internet in behalf of celebrating Tulsi Pujan Divas on 25 December.
- delete per policy based explanation by Flyingphoenixchips. This is not actually traditional/historical event/day. Started by a self proclaimed guru with a large following. Recently, Indian digital media has become churnilism, they cover literally anything. This particular topic lacks significant coverage in reliable sources to establish notability. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:08, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment Another piece of coverage, [47], Sabrang Communications 2020. I'm not sure what WP:GNG-weight it has, but it's certainly independent of the subject. 2014 RSN-discussion:[48] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:11, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep If this was started in 2014, 10 years should be wide enough ambit to independently define notability of this event outside WP:RECENTISM . We can find coverage for Tulsi Pujan Diwas in news articles and journals. For example this paper[5] published in 2022 primarily around Origin and significance of Tulsi discusses existence of Tulsi Poojan Diwas and finds no harm in dedicating one more day to her Nisingh.8 (talk) 17:38, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Nisingh.8: The "journal" IJIRT is a paid-publishing scam and the article you cite is gibberish with content cut-n-pasted randomly from the internet, eg from this 2019 astrology site, including the sentence
Talk to our expert for more information
. Abecedare (talk) 18:01, 29 March 2025 (UTC)- According to them they're approved by University Grants Commission (India). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:10, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- They aren't fwiw (can check here after registration). Don't know if the screenshot is doctored or if their registration was canceled at some point. Abecedare (talk) 18:43, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Just so everyone knows, the University Grants Commission (UGC) in India has stopped maintaining the UGC-CARE journal list because many low-quality and fake journals had entered it. I recently worked on updating its Wikipedia page. It's best to avoid journals that were on this discontinued list. Charlie (talk) 13:20, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- They aren't fwiw (can check here after registration). Don't know if the screenshot is doctored or if their registration was canceled at some point. Abecedare (talk) 18:43, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Some text copied from here, which seems might be interesting for WP-use. Actually, it seems a clear GNG-point, DailyO. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:18, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Many journals approved by the University grants commissions are predatory. Kindly see: https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2020/02/05/indias-fight-against-predatory-journals-an-interview-with-professor-bhushan-patwardhan/
- UGC list means nothing @Abecedare@Gråbergs Gråa Sång Flyingphoenixchips (talk) 05:12, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- According to them they're approved by University Grants Commission (India). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:10, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Nisingh.8: The "journal" IJIRT is a paid-publishing scam and the article you cite is gibberish with content cut-n-pasted randomly from the internet, eg from this 2019 astrology site, including the sentence
- Keep As per WP:RS event seems to be notable. It has substantial coverage from multiple sources including BBC in 2107[6]. These 2023[7] and 2024[8] articles also cover and describe rituals and significance of Tulsi Pujan Diwas Krishnpriya123 (talk) 05:55, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- The BBC is a good find, another GNG-point. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- The BBC Hindi article does not establish notability for Tulsi Pujan Diwas under Wikipedia’s guidelines. While BBC is generally a reliable source per WP:RS, the specific article in question fails to provide significant coverage as required by WP:GNG. It is a brief news report that mentions Tulsi Pujan Diwas in passing rather than analyzing its historical significance, cultural impact, or widespread observance. Per WP:ROUTINE, one-time or minor coverage of an event does not establish lasting notability. The article does not indicate that Tulsi Pujan Diwas has recognition from major religious authorities, government bodies, or independent scholars. Furthermore, Wikipedia requires multiple independentsources providing in-depth analysis, not just a single fleeting mention in a general news report. Therefore, this source alone is insufficient to justify a standalone Wikipedia article. @Krishnpriya123 Flyingphoenixchips (talk) 05:18, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- The BBC article does provide significant coverage (some context, even), like several other linked in this afd. It's not, per definition, by itself enough for WP:GNG since that guidance states "multiple sources are generally expected", but it's an argument in favor. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:29, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Per GNG, Significant coverage "addresses the topic directly and in detail". The BBC Hindi article does that, it also does not stop at brief news coverage, but covers in detail the viewpoints from the originator on starting of this day, historical context on when/why this was started. It also covers additional viewpoints of Minister, GOI Mahesh Sharma, Central Government Minister Giriraj Singh, and general social media buzz that this event created. BBC also analyzes this concept in conjunction with other events in India on same day.
- Agree, single news source should not stand up complete article, but I found BBC when searching through news articles on the topic and together with other sources, added my keep-points here. Krishnpriya123 (talk) 13:59, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- The BBC Hindi article does not establish notability for Tulsi Pujan Diwas under Wikipedia’s guidelines. While BBC is generally a reliable source per WP:RS, the specific article in question fails to provide significant coverage as required by WP:GNG. It is a brief news report that mentions Tulsi Pujan Diwas in passing rather than analyzing its historical significance, cultural impact, or widespread observance. Per WP:ROUTINE, one-time or minor coverage of an event does not establish lasting notability. The article does not indicate that Tulsi Pujan Diwas has recognition from major religious authorities, government bodies, or independent scholars. Furthermore, Wikipedia requires multiple independentsources providing in-depth analysis, not just a single fleeting mention in a general news report. Therefore, this source alone is insufficient to justify a standalone Wikipedia article. @Krishnpriya123 Flyingphoenixchips (talk) 05:18, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- The BBC is a good find, another GNG-point. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete - Churnalist coverage by Indian media doesn't mean much, see WP:NEWSORGINDIA, Indian media would cover everything as news if they get paid and therefore coverage from Indian media should be discarded. There's no coverage about this day in scholarly sources. CharlesWain (talk) 14:12, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: The festival seems to be celebrated widely and has recognized observance. Many schools include Tulsi Pujan Diwas in their yearly calendar as extra curricular event or celebration. As such this event finds notability and seems to be of impact to audience in India.
- https://www.millenniumschools.co.in/cheeka/gallery/worshippingtulsi-considered-very-auspicious-hindutraditions-many-people-start-their-day
- https://www.surajschool.com/blog/tulsi-diwas-celebration/
- https://www.happyvalleyrohtak.com/uncategorized/tulsi-pujan-divas/
- https://bohrapublicschool.org/portfolio/bhagwat-gita-mahotsav-and-tulsi-pujan-diwas-2023/ Rupesh Kumar Saigal (talk) 16:24, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- The provided sources are school websites, which are self-published and fail to meet the standards of WP:RS (Reliable Sources). Wikipedia requires coverage from reputable third-party sources such as national newspapers, academic publications, or government records, none of which are present here. As per WP:INDISCRIMINATE, routine celebrations in schools do not inherently establish encyclopedic significance. Additionally, the lack of substantial coverage in independent sources suggests that Tulsi Pujan Diwas is either a recent or localized event, failing the requirement of sustained notability per WP:EVENT. Without evidence of historical significance, cultural impact, or widespread recognition beyond isolated mentions, the article does not justify inclusion on Wikipedia. Flyingphoenixchips (talk) 05:16, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Rupesh Kumar Saigal (talk) 11:00, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- My listing above was to indicate that if multiple schools have adopted this event across different geo-locations this can be counted as continued impact and significance. Which means this event was not invented by the creator and is only known to creator. But unrelated or unaffiliated groups have also observed this event. Rupesh Kumar Saigal (talk) 11:12, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: This article meets the WP:GNG criteria. The deletion discussion seems to have been initiated with a limited understanding of the subject and certain incorrect assumptions or WP:DLS. The initiator's perspective does not fully align with the core concept of this article and its significance. Notably, this topic has gained vast recognition, with widespread observance in schools, colleges and public spaces. Multiple reliable and independent sources have been shared providing substantial coverage, reinforcing its notability and importance. PragyaanRover (talk) 09:32, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: Not traditional/historical event/day is not a ground for deletion. As such, Wikipedia is not a historical archive alone. Can find independent coverage such as here[9] or here[10] PriyasVP (talk) 16:12, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- This is actually an excellent demonstration of why we shouldn't have a standalone article. First off, both these articles have virtually identical content: they are clearly repackaging the same announcement or press release. Beyond that, though, nothing in these articles is specific to this observance: all of the content is related to Tulasi in Hinduism, plus some medicine-adjacent content that we cannot use because of WP:MEDRS. Even an article ostensibly about "Tulsi Pujan Diwas" has no content about this observance. Vanamonde93 (talk) 16:31, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete - Almost all of the coverage is typical run of the mill churnalism associated with Indian media (WP:NEWSORGINDIA). As per the guidance, almost all of it should be discarded and when done very little remains about this made up day. There are no scholarly sources covering this topic, it can also be redirected to Asaram#Teachings_and_views, where it is given the WP:DUE weight as required by the policies. Ratnahastin (talk) 10:46, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. The topic is not notable outside Asaram. ZDRX (User) | (Contact) 11:11, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: Tulsi Pujan Diwas is widely celebrated across India, and it is covered in multiple independent sources [49]. Wiki is not a place to hide a widely adopted concept just because the initiator of that concept is under question, This is especially to focus on the fact that the initiator of this discussion is forgetting the neutral point of view WP:NPOV policy GarimaSuha (talk) 16:19, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: This is not a promotional article. This is a notable event. The discussion is not on Asaram Bapu, reminding the I don't like it Policy of Wiki WP:IDONTLIKEIT If a person was convicted does not mean all his initiatives will be ignored.
- Here I will focus on historical validation of this event, as was pointed out by one person who voted for delete:
- 1. Coverage year 2017: This event was started in 2014 as stated by BBC in its report of 25th Dec 2017 [50]
- 2. Year 2019: Tulsi Puja Instead of Christmas Celebration: People Raise Their Voice on Social Media [51]
- 3. Year 2020: Bulandshahr Women Celebrated Tulsi Pujan Diwas [52]
- 5. Year 2022: Tulsi Pujan Diwas 2022: Date, December 25 – Significance, Puja Vidhi, and Remedies[55][56]
- 6. Year 2023: News coverage to remind people to know Tulsi Pujan Vidhi on Tulsi Pujan Diwas[57] [58]
- Year after year this event is getting significant coverage as needed per WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE, this is to prove verifiability of this article WP:V Sethi752 (talk) 17:07, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Keep Tulsi Pujan Diwas article coverage by BBC is a reliable source as per WP:RSPBBC[11].
- Coverage by Economic Times: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/new-updates/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2022-check-date-puja-vidhi-and-significance-of-this-hindu-festival/articleshow/96495420.cms?from=mdr
- https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/new-updates/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2023-date-timings-rituals-significance-of-this-holy-day/articleshow/106261017.cms?from=mdr
- Coverage by Zee News: https://zeenews.india.com/culture/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2024-date-history-rituals-spiritual-importance-and-health-benefits-2835697.html
- These news coverages by reliable sources prove the notability of this article.
- Coverage in book [12] **** — Preceding unsigned comment added by Transcend disillusion (talk • contribs)
- Note, as was pointed out earlier, the disclaimer at the end of the Economic Times article. And the book that is being cited is a non-RS self-publication.
- Unfortunately, despite the WP:NEWSORGINDIA-refspam cited at this AFD, I have yet to see any independent coverage beyond the BBC article and the commentary and humour pieces in DailyO and The Hindu respectively, all which explicitly link it to Asaram and the latter two roll their eyes at the festival. Hence my !vote to merge this article with Asaram. Abecedare (talk) 22:35, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Here is the list of few independent coverages which do not explicitly mention about Asaram Bapu. Since as per BBC too, this event got started in 2014, so it is a widely adopted concept now, since Tulsi is anyways sacred for Hindu community! And I don't see any point in getting this page merged. It must exist as an independent page since this is a cultural festival event.
- Brief List:
- 1. https://zeenews.india.com/culture/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2024-date-history-rituals-spiritual-importance-and-health-benefits-2835697.html#:~:text=Tulsi%20Pujan%20Diwas%20is%20not,the%20mortal%20and%20divine%20realms. (It states Tulsi Pujan Diwas, observed annually, celebrates the worship of the sacred Tulsi plant, a cornerstone of Hindu tradition known for its spiritual, medicinal, and symbolic importance)
- 2. https://marathi.hindustantimes.com/religion/tulsi-pujan-25-december-2024-puja-vidhi-in-marathi-know-the-do-or-donts-141735133643954.html
- 3. https://zeenews.india.com/culture/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2021-is-celebrated-on-christmas-heres-why-2422511.html
- These are just few independent sources, there are many more GarimaSuha (talk) 10:46, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
- These sources look very much like WP:NEWSORGINDIA would apply. It's really becoming clear that the best choice is to merge with Asaram. Simonm223 (talk) 11:55, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
References
- ^ [1]
- ^ [2]
- ^ [3]
- ^ [4]
- ^ Singh, Dr. Devender; Sharma, Dr. Sandhya. "Tulsi Poojan: Artistic, Literary and Cultural Importance" (PDF). IJIRT. 9 (1): 723. ISSN 2349-6002.
- ^ https://www.bbc.com/hindi/india-42478227
- ^ https://www.timesnownews.com/spiritual/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2023-date-and-puja-rituals-article-106262733
- ^ https://www.indiatoday.in/information/story/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2024-date-rituals-and-significance-2655159-2024-12-25
- ^ https://zeenews.india.com/culture/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2024-date-history-rituals-spiritual-importance-and-health-benefits-2835697.html
- ^ https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/religion/rituals-puja/tulsi-pujan-diwas-2024-date-rituals-and-significance/amp_articleshow/116647820.cms
- ^ https://www.bbc.com/hindi/india-42478227
- ^ Malik, B.K. (2024). Hindu Devi Devataon Ke Rahasyamay Satya [Mysterious tales of Hindu Gods and Goddesses] (in Hindi) (1st ed.). p. 158. ISBN 9789358231755.
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . RL0919 (talk) 23:12, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Isaac Cobo Displas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I can find no in-depth coverage of this academic, and cannot see how they meet WP:NSCHOLAR. Onel5969 TT me 10:52, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . ✗plicit 05:05, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Family Coalition Party of British Columbia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:ORG. Defunct provincial political party whose electoral results never exceeded half a percent of the popular vote. There is therefore no obvious claim of notability. The one reference provided, a book written by UBC professor Chris MacKenzie, does describe the background and founders of the party in-depth. However, I could not find multiple examples of in-depth coverage by reliable sources, and I do not think the coverage from MacKenzie's work alone is enough to establish long lasting notability. Yue🌙 08:12, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Goldsztajn (talk) 10:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:12, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Rise East Entertainment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Sources are related to the respective films produced by the subject and do not provide any coverage of the production house itself. None of the sources in the article provide significant coverage of the subject. Subject does not meet WP:NCORP or WP:SIGCOV. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 10:15, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Weak delete I am unable to locate any English language significant coverage of the topic, however there remains a strong possibility that sigcov may exist in a language other than English. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:19, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- These types of film production companies in India never have any independent, significant coverage about them in their local language either. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 17:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- If you wanted to come off as credible "never" isn't the word to use as it immediately makes you seem unserious, you're either being hyperbolic or you're just wrong. Consider using "rarely" instead. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:31, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- I intentionally used never because, in practice, these production companies in India do not receive independent, significant coverage in their local language. By 'these', I mean production companies that pop up without any significant backing, often founded by newcomers with little to no experience in the field, making it difficult for them to sustain themselves. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 19:26, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Is it never or is it in practice they don't? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:33, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- In practice, it hasn't happened till now, so we can discuss the nuances of the wording once someone sets a precedent. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 19:48, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Is it never or is it in practice they don't? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:33, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- I intentionally used never because, in practice, these production companies in India do not receive independent, significant coverage in their local language. By 'these', I mean production companies that pop up without any significant backing, often founded by newcomers with little to no experience in the field, making it difficult for them to sustain themselves. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 19:26, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- If you wanted to come off as credible "never" isn't the word to use as it immediately makes you seem unserious, you're either being hyperbolic or you're just wrong. Consider using "rarely" instead. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:31, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- These types of film production companies in India never have any independent, significant coverage about them in their local language either. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 17:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: Have done notable films and production is notable Monhiroe (talk) 09:34, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- The company can not be notable just because it has done a lot of notable films. Please provide some sources as to how the production is notable. ToadetteEdit (talk) 10:42, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. The topic simply does not meet the notability guidelines. As far as I know, I could not find any source, whether in English or Tamil or any other language, that discusses the subject in detail. Most (if not all) sources used in the article and on the search engine mostly talk about the film(s) in question and not the production company alone. ToadetteEdit (talk) 10:42, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nom. Fails to meet WP:NCORP with no indepth coverage on the organization itself. This article does not have any beneficial contribution and does not warrant significant notability. RangersRus (talk) 14:20, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:13, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Navrajvir Singh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lacks Notability. Given Sources are primary. No significant coverage in Independent Sources. Rahmatula786 (talk) 09:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete: Does not pass WP:GNG or WP:BIO in any way. No non-primary coverage. (please ping on reply) ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 11:01, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nom. Fails WP:NBIO. The degree of significance of the subject and of role as actor, entrepreneur and influencer is not enough to warrant a page on the subject. RangersRus (talk) 10:56, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. Fails WP:BIO. The article is also seems to be written from a non neutral POV Flyingphoenixchips (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:37, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep – The subject meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines because [provide sources or reasons]. Santoshbasa24 (talk) 16:42, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Plz note that your vote won’t be considered authentic if you have created this account after deletion nomination of this article. Rahmatula786 (talk) 17:03, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- This is clearly AI generated as well, the placeholder [] says it. Also @Santoshbasa24, where are those sources or reasons? ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 17:13, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- This vote is suspect. [provide sources or reasons] ... hmmm. Agree with Bunnypranav. It could be AI generated. Mysecretgarden (talk) 08:07, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 23:38, 28 March 2025 (UTC)3
AI generated comment, no point in keeping it. ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 15:24, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete : Not a single reliable source found and contains only blog source and self published sources by the subject that clearly fails WP:GNG. Dam222 🌋 (talk) 19:54, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment - I think the creator of the article using multiple accounts and Santoshbasa24 is the same person?? Or he isn't aware about WP:Sockpupetry... but i couldn't confirm that he is the same person or not. Dam222 🌋 (talk) 20:05, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete – The subject does not have enough news coverage. Linkedin and social media cannot be used. Mysecretgarden (talk) 08:09, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . ✗plicit 14:14, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Jauwad Hassan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The bio fails WP GNG, NPOL, AUTHOR (journalist). Promotional and lacking RS Cinder painter (talk) 08:58, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete: Does not pass WP:GNG or WP:BIO . The given sources fail to justify notability in any way. No non-primary coverage.Rahmatula786 (talk) 11:59, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. I see a consensus to Keep this article and no longer any support for Deletion beyond the nominator. Liz Read! Talk! 23:13, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Jerusalem Demsas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NAUTHOR. Lacks direct and in-depth coverage in independent secondary sources. Self-auhtored articles are not enough to prove her notability. Gheus (talk) 14:15, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Keep:
- Multiple references show significant, not trivial, coverage in independent secondary sources, discussing her early life (references 1-5), professional career and her views and contributions to the discussion of the housing crisis. An important notability factor (WP:AUTHOR) relies on the following: The person's work (or works) has won significant critical attention. Her book has received has significant critical attention, including book reviews in major sites including Vox and Bloomberg News (ref 9), which stated that Demsas "has distinguished herself within the supply-side camp." Her overall work has led to multiple high profile interviews, including on Bloomberg (ref. 9), NPR (ref. 11) and Ezra Klein's NYTimes interview (ref. 12), indicating her work has had significant attention. Per WP:NAUTHOR, references 8 & 9 show she is known for originating a significant new concept, further enhancing her notability. Included in the article were her opinions on the housing crisis; there is no Wikipedia injunction against discussing a subject's views. There is no Wikipedia injunction against using the subject's self-authored published works in reputable publications to verify the information presented. The references discussed above were used to verify Demsas' views, not to establish notability. And, only 4/23 references even fall within that purview. In brief: "People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." (Wikipedia:Notability (people)). The article meets all criteria.
- I note that the first reviewer (Ipigott]) did not see a problem with this article, and later removed a tag stating that this article may not achieve notability, claiming that "del tag - no longer applicable." Mwinog2777 (talk) 21:05, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- This was because additional pertinent work had been carried out on the article.--Ipigott (talk) 10:47, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep I agree that she meets WP:AUTHOR. A search of Newspapers.com shows a lot of columnists in other newspapers basing columns on articles by Demsas in The Atlantic and critiquing what she has written. So far I've found examples in The Indianapolis Star, The Herald-Palladium, Sun Journal (Lewiston, Maine), and The San Francisco Examiner, by 5 different columnists. I'll try to add them to the article. (Before searching, I had thought this might be a case of TOOSOON, as she joined The Atlantic only 3 years ago, in 2022. But it's clear that she very quickly had a big impact.) RebeccaGreen (talk) 04:06, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- I don't think added refs are examples of WP:SIGCOV. Quotes of her work in independent secondary sources are helpful to expand the article (and I'm thankful to you for doing this research), but there must be some coverage that is directly about her (preferably about her early life, education, career) to pass WP:GNG. Gheus (talk) 08:42, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Disagree with you; check references 1, 3-5 and 7, particularly such reporting in reference 1.Mwinog2777 (talk) 16:42, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- I don't think added refs are examples of WP:SIGCOV. Quotes of her work in independent secondary sources are helpful to expand the article (and I'm thankful to you for doing this research), but there must be some coverage that is directly about her (preferably about her early life, education, career) to pass WP:GNG. Gheus (talk) 08:42, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
Delete: I'm not seeing the kind of coverage required to meet WP:NJOURNALIST. Some participants above are citing discussion of her work ([61], [62]) as WP:SIGCOV of her, which it's not (that's more of an WP:NACADEMIC criterion). These are mentions, not independent reviews of her body of work required to meet WP:NAUTHOR. Meanwhile, the Bits and Deets article should be deleted as an unreliable blog that scrapes personal info and aggregates it as SEO bait. The rest of the sources appear to be her own work or WP:INTERVIEWs. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:03, 18 March 2025 (UTC)- Per WP:Interviews: "A multitude of interviews with a breadth of styles shows a wide range of attention being given to the subject and can be considered as evidence of notability." The multiple interviews listed were done by highly reputable outlets, including the New York Times and NPR. The interviews were presented as investigative journalism with the interview material often interspersed with the interviewer's own analysis and thoughts. Please review the interviews. She meets criteria for WP:NAUTHOR as there are multiple reviews of her book, her body of work, as it encompasses her previous columns and essays.Mwinog2777 (talk) 06:57, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- The NYT interview is a podcast interview with Ezra Klein - a classic Q&A primary source interview with no editorial interpolation and no "investigative journalism". The so-called "NPR" interview is actually a PBS interview (these are not the same outlet) and again, it is a Q&A interview with Demsas. These are primary sources and do not count toward notability. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:09, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oops, mixed up PBS and NPR, my bad. But, disagree, both interviews had in-depth comments by interviewers, particularly the Ezra Klein, even with only a cursory glance.~~~ Mwinog2777 (talk) 20:59, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Took out original ref. 2 and added another re high school attended. Mwinog2777 (talk) 18:15, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oops, mixed up PBS and NPR, my bad. But, disagree, both interviews had in-depth comments by interviewers, particularly the Ezra Klein, even with only a cursory glance.~~~ Mwinog2777 (talk) 20:59, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- The NYT interview is a podcast interview with Ezra Klein - a classic Q&A primary source interview with no editorial interpolation and no "investigative journalism". The so-called "NPR" interview is actually a PBS interview (these are not the same outlet) and again, it is a Q&A interview with Demsas. These are primary sources and do not count toward notability. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:09, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Per WP:Interviews: "A multitude of interviews with a breadth of styles shows a wide range of attention being given to the subject and can be considered as evidence of notability." The multiple interviews listed were done by highly reputable outlets, including the New York Times and NPR. The interviews were presented as investigative journalism with the interview material often interspersed with the interviewer's own analysis and thoughts. Please review the interviews. She meets criteria for WP:NAUTHOR as there are multiple reviews of her book, her body of work, as it encompasses her previous columns and essays.Mwinog2777 (talk) 06:57, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 03:13, 19 March 2025 (UTC) - Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 08:53, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: By my reading of WP:AUTHOR criteria #1, the subject meets notability given here essays and book on the housing crisis, e.g. book review in Bloomberg, Discourse Magazine, piece by Megan McArdle, discussion in San Francisco Examiner. I understand interviews don't count towards notability but they tend to have summary (i.e. secondary) coverage of the subject and in this case are in notable media. While these aren't WP:SIGCOV of the subject herself, they do discuss her research and vantage on this topic extensively. Nnev66 (talk) 20:22, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- The Capps interview in Bloomberg/CityLab is really a Q&A interview; I wouldn't count it as a "review" for NAUTHOR purposes. The Discourse piece would count as a review. If we can get to another real review, I'd say we have an NAUTHOR pass, but it's not there yet. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:33, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Vox review, reference 14, is a real review.Mwinog2777 (talk) 16:51, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- I can't read the Vox piece due to their strict paywall, but WP:AGF I'll withdraw my !vote and trust you that it is an in-depth review and not an interview like the Capps piece. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:19, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- The first part of the Bloomberg/CityLab article reads like a review of the book to me, albeit on the shorter side - one can ignore the interview that comes after for notability purposes. Perhaps an open question is when the book is cited by multiple news media sources if these count towards being "widely cited by peers or successors", i.e. NAUTHOR#1. Nnev66 (talk) 17:38, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, it should be counted; how can it be argued otherwise? Mwinog2777 (talk) 18:43, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- If citations meant from academic journals - but I believe reputable news media should also count Nnev66 (talk) 13:19, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- From NAUTHOR#1: "This guideline applies to authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, and other creative professionals." Scientific/academic writing is a separate entity with its own notability criteria (WP:NACADEMIC). Mwinog2777 (talk) 19:09, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- If citations meant from academic journals - but I believe reputable news media should also count Nnev66 (talk) 13:19, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, it should be counted; how can it be argued otherwise? Mwinog2777 (talk) 18:43, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Vox review, reference 14, is a real review.Mwinog2777 (talk) 16:51, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- The Capps interview in Bloomberg/CityLab is really a Q&A interview; I wouldn't count it as a "review" for NAUTHOR purposes. The Discourse piece would count as a review. If we can get to another real review, I'd say we have an NAUTHOR pass, but it's not there yet. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:33, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . ✗plicit 14:14, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Transcendent Leadership (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not sure it's meeting GNG. Heavliy supported by blogs, linkedins posts, strange articles like: 9 things to know.... etc. Cinder painter (talk) 08:20, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:13, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Koko Pee (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Failing to meet GNG and Anybio; lack of reliable sources; original research and unsourced promotional text Cinder painter (talk) 08:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete has failed to meet any criteria under WP:SINGER. Uncle Bash007 (talk) 08:32, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete: Oh dear, I had to laugh when I did a cursory search. This subject is still up-and-coming and fails WP:NMUSICIAN, does not come close to WP:COMPOSER or WP:GNG. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:02, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Clearly Fail GNG. Hardly anything significant to be discussed here. Nothing more to be added. Rahmatula786 (talk) 13:30, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: No reliable sources. Write up too much but non reliable sources. 2RDD (talk) 16:12, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Write up too much NGL. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 18:36, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per Vanderwaalforces and total lack of reliable sources. I conducted two searches and found nothing but pages and pages and pages of social media posts, primarily from Facebook, X/Twitter and TikTok. We are not a social media platform. Bearian (talk) 01:38, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG and WP:SINGER. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:31, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails GNG. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 06:47, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. ✗plicit 03:23, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Shalom Hartman Institute (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Notability. This article is cruft and appears written and edited by a participant. I recommend deletion, it does not appear notable. Ogress 15:28, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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Delete- I can't verify the Jerusalem Post articles. Bearian (talk) 10:37, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
- Bearian, maybe these were fixed? gidonb (talk) 04:10, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Keep by NORG, with the initiative merged into it. gidonb (talk) 02:22, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- keep - This is an important international educational institution based in Jerusalem, and it certainly deserves to have an article. I’ve tried to provide a few additional sources to help establish its notability, and perhaps it still needs some edits to make it more encyclopaedic. However, I see no reason for it to be deleted entirely. IshtoriHaparchi (talk) 10:37, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- keep -. It has been around for almost 50 years and is one of the leading institutes of its kind. The links in the articles prove this without a doubt. Atbannett (talk) 08:57, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- keep -. We editors should seek to improve article, rather then delete them if we find imperfections. --CarlSerafino (talk) 13:58, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. Many of these are not credible policy-based arguments. However, I've since added WP:RS that establish WP:GNG. Longhornsg (talk) 17:25, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There's less than a consensus here for keep on the basis of policy or guideline interventions. Further discussion on claimed reliable sourcing now in the article (or present elsewhere) would be useful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Goldsztajn (talk) 07:13, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep I think that sufficient coverage in reliable, independent sources have been identified. Here is another one, from the Detroit Jewish News, Shalom Hartman Institute Hosts Learners and Leaders from North America in Jerusalem although it is not fully independent. Here is strong criticism of one of the institute's major programs by a Muslim who was once a fellow there The Failures of an American Muslim and Jewish Dialogue: A former member of a prominent program in which both sides shared perspectives reflects on its shortcomings. Here's coverage in Jewish Chicago, Shalom Hartman Institute comes to Chicago: Jason Rosensweig to become first Chicago director. in In the spirit of full disclosure, I briefly visited this institute in Jerusalem in 2005. Cullen328 (talk) 08:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: The Institute meets WP:GNG and WP:NORG, with coverage in multiple independent, reliable sources (WP:RS). Its U.S.-based iEngage program, operating on North American campuses, received $1M in philanthropic support (ToI); its donor relationships, including $25M+ from the CLAWS Foundation, have been reported (Haaretz). The Institute’s president was interviewed on The Ezra Klein Show (NYT). While most coverage is brief, it spans education, philanthropy, and public discourse. JSTOR returns 300+ results referencing the Institute (not individually reviewed by me). Per WP:BIAS, sourcing standards should consider regional context for non-English speaking organizations. HerBauhaus (talk) 05:00, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- keep -. This is a really good article. Very informative and well researched. — Maile (talk) 00:51, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep nearly 50 year old organization and the article has adequate coverage to pass WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:39, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep - Got to agree with Maile on how well-researched the article is, and sources used are more than adequate for the type of article. EytanMelech (talk) 00:42, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:HEY. Even if some sources can't be seen or read, enough reliable sources have been added. Bearian (talk) 09:59, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 05:34, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Impacts of restrictive abortion laws in the United States (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article fails to adhere to Wikipedia’s core Neutral Point of View (NPOV) policy and reads more like an advocacy piece than an encyclopedia article. It presents a highly one-sided narrative, focusing exclusively on negative consequences of restrictive abortion laws without offering counterbalancing perspectives—such as legal, ethical, or public health arguments made by supporters of these laws. For example, the article contains emotionally charged and anecdotal accounts (e.g., detailing the deaths of Josseli Barnica and Nevaeh Crain) in a manner more consistent with journalistic storytelling than encyclopedic writing. It uses loaded phrases like “doctors refused to help”, “hide or ignore the problem”, and “significant suffering for the child”—language that conveys bias rather than neutrality.
Additionally, there is no discussion of constitutional, legal, or moral arguments in favor of abortion restrictions, nor any mention of differing interpretations of maternal or prenatal rights. The article also heavily emphasizes phrases like “birthing people” and “pregnant people," unlike most Wikipedia articles of a similar nature, without acknowledging that this terminology is itself a subject of sociopolitical debate—another example of ideological slant without proper context.
Further, the content of this article could easily be incorporated into one of the many existing articles, such as "Abortion in the United States" or relevant articles relating to abortion laws.. if it can be completely rewritten first. DocZach (talk) 06:00, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. AfD isn't cleanup, and the topic is extensively sourced. Cortador (talk) 09:09, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep, extensively sourced article with many WP:RS. Your nomination is long on words but short on policy, and most of it really is just your opinion, which does not convince me of WP:NPOV violation. Even then, NPOV is no reason for deletion outside of WP:POVFORKS articles, which this is not. Choucas0 🐦⬛•💬•📋 10:43, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Health and fitness, Law, and United States of America. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:47, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep.
- To your points:
- 1) I don't view this as a one-sided narrative. The name of the article is "Impacts of restrictive abortion laws in the United States," and the things contained in the article are impacts of restrictive abortion laws in the United States. (It's just exactly what it says it is.)
- You mention adding "counterbalancing perspectives" of supporters of these laws, but I don't think *perspectives* are in the article - even of those opposed to the laws. It's not really about what the supporters of these laws *believe,* it's what are the *impacts* of the laws. If there are any positive impacts of the laws, that have reliable sources, that aren't in the article, then anyone is welcome to add them.
- 2) Listing some examples of notable deaths that experts say were caused by these laws is appropriate on a page about the impacts of these laws. (Whether it charges some people's emotions or not is immaterial).
- 3) To the few phrases you pulled out that you don't think are neutral a) I made small edits to clarify spots about doctors refusing to help, expanding slightly one specifically what that meant so it was more based directly in specific facts b) I got rid of the sentence that included "hide or ignore the problem." And "significant suffering for the child" is pulled directly from the source and doesn't seem like a biased phrase to me (especially since it came from an expert; I don't think we usually have to use attribution and quote marks for a usage of a 5-word phrase, but if you think the quote is long enough and you want to put quote marks on it and cite the expert, that would probably be another acceptable way to do it). If you have small NPOV issues, the article can be edited to use some different language. That doesn't justify deleting the whole article
- 4) The article doesn't "emphasize" phrases like "birthing people," it merely uses them. Gender neutral language when it comes to pregnant people is listed in the AP Stylebook, and I haven't found any wikipedia guidelines saying that Wikipedia is in opposition to the AP Stylebook
- 5) The article does not need to be "completely rewritten." It has several reliable sources and gets across a lot of relevant information. It doesn't make any sense to add it to "Abortion in the United States" as I put the "Abortion in the United States" article into a word counter and it said it was over 17,000 words. WP:SIZERULE says if an article is over 15,000 words, it "almost certainly should be divided or trimmed." So, it wouldn't make sense to bloat an article that is already too large (and maybe needs an article offshoot) any further InquisitiveWikipedian (talk) 20:56, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Would it not make more sense to have "impacts of restrictive abortion laws" under the specific article about that law? Anti-abortion laws vary significantly in their extent, application, and scope. Some anti-abortion laws are poorly written and don't clearly outline exceptions, others do clearly outline exceptions. We already have articles for specific laws against abortion (and even articles about abortion in each and every state), so would it not make more sense to include the aftermath of such laws in their designated articles instead of attempting to generalize the laws of 50 states in one article?
- Much of the content in this article is already addressed in the Impact section of the Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization article. I don't see why a completely new article is needed when this topic is already addressed in many other articles. It would be as if I decided to make an "Impact of restrictive drug laws in the United States" article and attempted to synthesize and form a conclusion on the complicated drug laws of all 50 states. It doesn't seem encyclopedic or sensical at all. DocZach (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- 1) I just took a look at the impact section of Dobbs v Jackson and 2 things -
- A) Since this is probably the most salient, the article looks to already be over 13,000 words. And while I know the above mentioned size rule is not absolutely hard and fast, anything above 9,000 words "Probably should be divided or trimmed, though the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading material." If anything, I would say we should consider taking some things in that article (they have things I think could be considered impacts in nearly every section) and putting them here, and then putting a link to this article for further reading on that page.
- B) The way that article is set up now, after a quick look, it seems to me like most of the things talked about with any depth in the "impact" section are mainly legal impacts where I think this specific page is broader than that. (But again, I do think we could take some things from that article, both legal impacts, and also things that seem like impacts in the "legacy," "international," and/or "reaction" sections and put some of that in here, to make the length of that page more manageable and focused and to make this page more comprehensive.)
- 2) I feel similarly about adding this to any of the other long articles about abortion in the United States. They're all very long and so, to me (not only for size, but also for other reasons I'm mentioning), it makes sense to have a standalone article.
- 3) To your point that this topic is already addressed, I think it needs a place where impacts can be synthesized and written about in depth instead of people having to piece together a little impact here and a little impact there across several pages on Wikipedia. Also, I don't think everything in this article is addressed in other places. So, I think it does make sense to synthesize it here, instead of spreading things out to different articles. Also, if you put it all in one article, the overall impact across the United States becomes clearer as opposed to trying to do smaller impact sections in each state and have people piece it together on their own.
- 4) To your example about drug laws - abortion used to be federally protected up to a certain point and now it's not. So now there are impacts across the United States. (Yes, some states are impacted more than others, but impacts are happening across the US and states are affecting each other (with people leaving certain states for healthcare or medical training, etc., so they are interconnected.) So, to your drug example, if there were a federal law that invited states to criminalize insulin and a lot of states did, and then that outcome affected a number of things (e.g. made it so people with diabetes were at much higher health risks in certain states, and certain specialist doctor training programs were no longer able to teach about using insulin as part of a treatment plan for diabetes, etc., and it was spread out among multiple states and also affected multiple states in that people were traveling to different states to get insulin or to get trained as medical professionals on how to use insulin), I think it would be perfectly reasonable for you to make an article about the impact of that throughout the United States. InquisitiveWikipedian (talk) 10:46, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Cautious keep. I think can be perfectly legal and moral and still have impact worth speaking of. Hyperbolick (talk) 00:19, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep the article is properly sourced and the topic is notable. The main concern of OP is the neutrality of the content which as others have mentioned can be resolved without nuking the entire article. Its title references impacts of these laws; it doesn't assign them a value, so they can be positive or negative. If positive impacts are missing they can be added, as long as they are sourced. Paprikaiser (talk) 20:46, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was no consensus. Closure of AFDs is not based on any one opinion, including my own, but consensus and right now, I see no consensus here. Liz Read! Talk! 05:31, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Conway triangle notation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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MathWorld is notorious for neologisms, and this is one. MathWorld in turn sources this notation only to an unpublished book manuscript that uses this notation only in the formulation of a single formula. My prod saying as much was reverted by User:Mast303 with no improvement and a WP:VAGUEWAVE at notability, so here we are. —David Eppstein (talk) 03:14, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mathematics-related deletion discussions. —David Eppstein (talk) 03:16, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete - It's surprising - you can find LOTS of people mentioning this convention, but very little discussion of the convention itself. For the amount of hits you get back, I'm definitely surprised to discover that it doesn't really seem to have enough support to justify inclusion at the moment. PianoDan (talk) 23:25, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment. I don't have an opinion on whether to keep or delete the article, but I will mention that I saw this notation a long time ago. I don't think it's a term coined by MathWorld, but admittedly I have no sources to back this up. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 00:46, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep/Comment. I created this article in 2008 because I noted that a number of published papers in projective geometry that I was reading at the time used the Conway notation as a short hand and there did not exist any scholarly article detailing the notation or how best to use it. The only reference at the time was the entry in MathWorld and it referred to Yiu, P. "Notation." §3.4.1 in Introduction to the Geometry of the Triangle. pp. 33-34, Version 2.0402, April 2002.
Deleting the article because an editor believes that "Conway triangle notation" is a neologism created by MathWord seems excessive and probably incorrect. I do not know who coined the phrase "Conway triangle notation" but details of the notation were published by Paul Yiu in his very popular and well cited Book/Journal, "Introduction to the Geometry of the Triangle" first published in 2001.
Today, many papers in geometry use the notation here is a recent example:-
Trigonometric Polynomial Points in the Plane of a Triangle by Clark Kimberling 1, and Peter J. C. Moses - see section 7 at https://www.mdpi.com/3042-402X/1/1/5.
I note that there are 2 other language versions of the article. The Dutch version also has no references. Will this be deleted by the same editor or will it remain? I believe there needs to be consistency.
Finally, I will insert 2 references into the article - The Paul Yiu reference mentioned above and a reference to the Encyclopedia of Triangle Centers and ETC Part 1 "Introduced on November 1, 2011: Combos" Note 6. - Frank M. Jackson (talk) 10:42, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, PhantomSteve/talk¦contribs\ 12:31, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep/Comment. Though the term "Conway triangle notation" may or may not have been created at MathWorld, the use of the notation goes back to the nineteenth century. The following reference has been supplied by Francisco Javier.
"Here it is a previous use of the nowadays known as Conway notation by a Spanish mathematician in the XIX century:
Juan Jacobo Durán Loriga,
"Nota sobre el triángulo", en El Progreso Matemático, tomo IV (1894), pages 313-316."
https://hemerotecadigital.bne.es/hd/es/viewer?id=60bef4e2-9410-4e51-8dca-5044fc99ba4a
Francisco Javier. Frank M. Jackson (talk) 01:15, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:51, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep per Frank M. Jackson. GregariousMadness (talk to me!) 07:26, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
- The Frank M. Jackson that says that this is Conway's triangle notation and cites Yiu? Or the Frank M. Jackson that says that it isn't and cites a paper showing that Yiu was wrong? ☺ Uncle G (talk) 09:51, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
- My experience is similar to PianoDan's. Excluding the CRC Encyclopaedia, for obvious reasons, I went looking for other sources. Everyone seems to cite either Wikipedia or MathWorld. The 19th century mathematician mentioned above cannot possibly have documented a "Conway" notation 43 years before Conway was born. And indeed xe didn't. There is a nonce notation there, but it isn't attributed to anyone and just called a potencia. MathWorld's article on the notation by Peter Moses traces it back to Yiu, but Yiu simply does not give any citation to Conway for this, unlike for other things. MathWorld's article on the Johnson Triangle attributes this to personal communications from Peter Moses and one … Frank M. Jackson. This is starting to seem very circular. And it's even odder that we are in the situation of a Frank M. Jackson now arguing to keep this article on the basis it is not Conway's triangle notation but is someone else's from the 19th century, outright invalidating the Yiu source that is being proffered at the same time. Uncle G (talk) 09:51, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete A lot of well-known formulae about the triangle dressed up with a notation for which the name given in the article does not have any reliable reference. If it is used in actual textbooks it could possibly be merged into the triangle article but according to the comments above the name for the notation certainly does not belong on Wikipedia. jraimbau (talk) 07:49, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. Right now, there is no agreement or consensus on an outcome.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:48, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
Keep/Comment. No one has commented on the fact that if the English version is deleted there will remain 3 other language versions of the article on Wikipedia. Frank M. Jackson (talk) 23:53, 30 March 2025 (UTC)- That is completely irrelevant. The other Wikipedias operate independently with independent notability standards. It is frequently the case that articles deemed non-notable here continue to have other language versions. It is also frequently the case that the notability of the other-language versions has not been tested yet. Additionally, I have struck your boldface "keep" because you are allowed only one of those per AfD. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:56, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was redirect to List of Tamil films of 2001#July – September. (non-admin closure) Dclemens1971 (talk) 04:08, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Poove Pen Poove (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails Wikipedia:Notability (films). No reliable reviews [63], [64], and [65]. Sources in Release section are not specific to this film, but talk about both actors' post debut films' performance.
Source 1 doesn't help much, such sources got Singara Chennai deleted [66]. DareshMohan (talk) 03:30, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2025 March 26. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 03:44, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Film and India. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:15, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Tamil films of 2001#July_–_September. Opposed to deletion (notable cast and musicians). -Mushy Yank. 05:57, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Tamil films of 2001#July_–_September or Delete. Poor sources on the page with no significant coverage. Fails WP:NFILM. RangersRus (talk) 11:02, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Tamil films of 2001#July_–_September fails WP:GNG and WP:NFILM for standalone article.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:11, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. I see a rough consensus that the sources found do not offer the required SIGCOV. Kudos to Tryptofish for their honest and unbiased assessment of the sources they presented, and to Bearian for his disclosure. Owen× ☎ 12:31, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
- City Winery (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This is a procedural nomination. Apparently I created this page as a redirect in 2015, then decided to "let's try an article", which suggests I was helping or doing cleanup for somebody (it's not the sort of article I would have spontaneously written). Anyway, it was recently PRODded, but I think a discussion on it is better. So discuss. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:41, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Food and drink and Organizations. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:41, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Do Draft:City Winery and Special:Permalink/666766371#Response to you jog the memory? Uncle G (talk) 10:15, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oh right, I was doing NPP / AfC patrol, that figures. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:26, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Companies, and New York. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:42, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wine-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:42, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Good nomination, I agree wrt the rationale that PROD was unnecessary. There appears to be sufficient coverage in reliable secondary, independent third-party sources, over a period of time, to indicate both GNG and SIGCOV have been met. Cheers, Fortuna, Imperatrix Mundi 15:25, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. I found these sources: [67], [68], [69], [70], [71]. None of them is particularly great in terms of establishing more than a passing mention, but I think there's just enough independent sourcing from various places to satisfy WP:GNG and WP:NORG. Not a slam-dunk, but, I think, enough. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:21, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
- Adding, I can very much sympathize with editors who have had to deal with promotional editing, and I can agree that such disruption should not be rewarded. On the other hand, such edits, once they have been corrected, do not determine the notability of a subject. As I've said, the sourcing to establish notability here is not a slam-dunk, and I can accept that that's open to discussion, but if the page topic is notable, past bad conduct is not a policy-based reason to delete it. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:38, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you so much @Tryptofish for taking the time to research for notability citations. It is deeply appreciated. This was quality research. I agree with you that abuse is not enough if a page is salvageable. That is an excellent point you make. The sourcing that you took the time to find, I agree, is not exactly a "slam-dunk." As you kindly opened them to discussion, I evaluated each one and have the following concerns:
- The sources provided to support keeping the City Winery article do not appear to me to meet Wikipedia's standards for establishing independent and substantial notability, as outlined in WP:GNG and WP:ORG. Each cited reference is either incidental, promotional, or superficial, failing to offer the depth and independent analysis required by Wikipedia's policies.
- The reference from Creating the Hudson River Park by Tom Fox is merely a mention of a business transaction. It indicates only that City Winery signed a lease at Pier 57 along with other businesses during a redevelopment project. Per WP:ROUTINE, such routine coverage does not establish notability beyond a basic directory listing or business note (WP:NOTADIRECTORY), lacking meaningful cultural or independent significance.
- Similarly, Weekends in Chicago from the Chicago Tribune Staff functions purely as paid promotional tourism content. According to WP:PROMO and WP:NOTADVERTISING, promotional material highlighting City Winery as one of many "Things to Do" in Chicago, which is an advertisement or paid placement, does not constitute substantial coverage that would establish independent notability.
- Likewise, The New Nashville Chef's Table by Stephanie Stewart operates as a promotional cookbook showcasing current Nashville businesses and venues, including City Winery, that happened to be operational and participate at the time of publication. Such material is explicitly promotional, encouraging dining and entertainment patronage, without genuine, independent cultural analysis or historical significance. Accepting this as evidence of notability would set a problematic precedent contradicting WP:NOTPROMOTION and WP:NOTADVERTISING, potentially qualifying nearly every business featured in promotional publications as notable.
- Finally, Anthony DeCurtis's Lou Reed: A Life only briefly references City Winery in connection with Michael Dorf, who had minor professional ties with Lou Reed. WP:INHERIT explicitly states that notability is not inherited through association. The mention in DeCurtis's biography is peripheral and does not establish independent notability for City Winery. Accepting such a mention as proof of notability would imply that every venue Lou Reed performed at throughout his decades-long career is inherently notable. Given that Lou Reed performed extensively from around 1955 onwards and City Winery only opened for business in 2008, such reasoning would lead to untenable outcomes where countless venues would unjustifiably qualify for standalone Wikipedia articles based solely on association with the musician. Therefore, none of these sources provide the substantial, independent secondary-source coverage required by WP:GNG and WP:ORG to justify retaining the City Winery article on Wikipedia. Qinifer (talk) 00:02, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- When I went looking for sources, I made a deliberate effort to avoid the pitfalls that you assert these four sources have. The first one I cited, by M.B. Bailey, which I don't think you commented on, spends a significant amount of text discussing how "City Winery in New York City illustrates how race may overlap with age and venue in Americana." As a secondary source, she also cites how primary opinions by other authors, specifically about City Winery, support this view. This becomes even more significant when taken alongside the source about Lou Reed, because it provides a context in which the page subject is seen by multiple sources as a culturally significant venue for musical performances. As portrayed by the source material, this isn't just any venue where Reed performed. That source also treats Dorf as someone who knew Reed well and was qualified to comment on Reed as a person, and who commented in the context of performance at that venue, in terms of the specific characteristics of that venue. As for the source about real estate by Fox, I can accept your point that it is the weakest of the sources that I chose to cite. But it isn't simply what you call it, "a mention of a business transaction". Rather, the source discusses that transaction in the context of a wider issue about neighborhood development, providing secondary commentary about how it plays a cultural role in the neighborhood. Either I am missing something, or you are mischaracterizing the two other sources, about reviewing the place as a restaurant. I see no evidence that these sources were paid to write about the Winery, or that they were simply repeating press release material. (I discarded other sources I came across, that did seem to me to fail on these points.) The Tribune staff are providing an independent restaurant review, which NORG explicitly distinguishes from paid placement about restaurants, and the Stewart source is a book about a movement or style in cooking, that provides a detailed and multi-page examination of specific dishes from the menu. These are independent sources about the restaurant, and they are far from in-passing. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you for taking the time to assess sources carefully. I appreciate the effort to ensure that a fair notability evaluation is made. However, I remain unconvinced that these sources meet the threshold for substantial, independent coverage required by WP:GNG as follows:
- But first, my apologies for neglecting the Bailey source. I meant no disrespect. That was an oversight, and I appreciate you pointing it out so that I could properly assess it. I had it open in my browser, read it, and must have mistakenly closed it and overlooked it when actually writing my response (too many tiny tabs open at once). Your work and the article deserve serious consideration.
- Upon review, the Bailey source discusses City Winery within the context of a broader analysis of Americana music and its relationship to race and age. While Bailey provides an interesting higher-level discussion, City Winery appears to be one of many venues used as an interchangeable example rather than being the focus of a sustained, in-depth examination of that particular business. Mentions within broader cultural studies do not automatically equate to independent notability for the venue itself, particularly if the analysis is primarily about a musical trend involving numerous equally interchangeable venues rather than City Winery’s unique role within it. If this were a sociological study focused specifically on how City Winery reshaped cultural dynamics, it might be different, but as it stands, this source does not establish lasting significance for City Winery itself.
- To clarify by way of example, the Apollo Theater in Harlem is widely recognized as a culturally and historically significant venue. The Apollo is documented in-depth for its role in shaping African American music history and advancing racial integration in not just entertainment, but the world at large. The Apollo was a crucial platform for launching the careers of artists such as Ella Fitzgerald, James Brown, and Aretha Franklin, and remains a symbol of lasting cultural and social impact. Performing at The Apollo is widely considered a milestone in an artist’s career. Playing The Apollo is regarded as a sign that artists have "arrived" at a certain level of prestige. There is no indication that City Winery holds a similar cultural weight or reputation. This extensive, independent, and well-documented influence of significant cultural impact is why the Apollo Theater meets notability requirements to justify a standalone article.
- By contrast, City Winery, founded in 2008, is one of many interchangeable venues referenced as part of a larger cultural moment, with no indication that it played a uniquely transformative role in shaping music history or social change like The Apollo has. City Winery is not singled out as particularly noteworthy in its own right. Instead, it is used as one interchangeable data point among many to illustrate a broader trend. For a venue to warrant a standalone article, there must be clear evidence of unique and lasting cultural significance, such as with The Apollo Theater, not just inclusion as an interchangeable example in a broader cultural study. If City Winery had a chapter-length examination detailing its role in shaping a music movement, as The Apollo does, it might be different, but instead, it is presented alongside numerous other interchangeable venues in a way that does not establish individual notability.
- Similarly, the Lou Reed source must be considered in context. If City Winery is one of many venues discussed in passing in a biography about Lou Reed, rather than being the subject of meaningful analysis in its own right, it does not meet WP:GNG’s depth requirement. Additionally, WP:NOTINHERITED applies both to the venue and to Dorf. A notable artist performing at a venue does not automatically confer lasting notability upon the venue itself without clear evidence of its distinct cultural impact, as in the Apollo Theater example above. Even if multiple sources acknowledge that Reed performed at City Winery, that alone does not elevate the venue’s independent encyclopedic significance.
- Likewise, the fact that Michael Dorf knew Lou Reed does not establish Dorf’s notability in his own right (WP:NOTINHERITED). Many individuals who knew Reed well have contributed substantive statements to biographical works about him, but that does not mean they each warrant their own Wikipedia articles, just as every venue mentioned in the biography does not automatically qualify for a standalone page. Being qualified to provide commentary on a notable person does not justify an article. At most, the commentary used to gather data about Reed supports a citation within the Lou Reed article itself.
- Regarding the Fox source, I recognize that it discusses City Winery within a larger conversation about real estate and urban development, but I question whether that discussion is in-depth enough to establish independent notability. If the venue is merely mentioned as one of many businesses affected by real estate trends rather than as a significant cultural entity in its own right, then this coverage does not meet WP:GNG. The source documents business activity at a given moment in time, but it does not assess any lasting cultural impact of the venue itself. At most, it might justify a citation within an article about urban development in that city at that moment in time, but not for a standalone article about City Winery.
- I disagree that the restaurant nightlife advertisement publication substantiates notability. WP:NORG explicitly distinguishes between general food reviews, advertisements, and in-depth analysis that establishes lasting significance. These are advertisements and not reviews, however, for argument's sake, even if it were an independent review, it primarily discusses food, ambiance, and service. None of those items contribute to establishing historical or cultural significance. For a venue to meet notability standards, sources would need to analyze its unique role in music, performance, or cultural movements, rather than simply describing it as a location where artists perform and people can go to drink or dine. However, these sources are not in-depth analyses; they are advertising copy submitted to create the nightlife guide, going so far as to include a direct promotional quote from the venue’s manager, which indicates a conflict of interest rather than independent evaluation.
- The Weekends in Chicago publication is a curated nightlife guide, composed of PR material and promotional blurbs similar to what would be found in a VisitChicago tourism booklet. It functions not as an independent critical source but as a commercially motivated directory meant to promote local businesses. These are commonly created marketing materials published by newspapers designed to promote commerce in their city. As such, the Weekends publication's purpose is to drive commerce, not to provide critical analysis of historical or cultural impact. Simply being listed among other venues in an entertainment guide is not equivalent to being the subject of sustained, in-depth, independent coverage, as required by WP:GNG.
- Additionally, producing promotional recipe books featuring local businesses is a common marketing strategy that does not, in itself, establish significance. These books are often sold commercially, but their purpose is cross-promotional rather than editorial, typically serving as a low-cost marketing gimmick to generate sales within a specific region. Restaurants contribute free recipes in exchange for advertising, making these books a standard promotional tool rather than an independent, in-depth cultural analysis. The inclusion of City Winery in such a publication does not indicate historical or cultural significance, but rather that it was one of many businesses that opted to participate for mutual promotional benefit. These books function primarily as advertising compilations, not as critical examinations of a venue’s lasting impact. As such, they are insufficient to establish notability under WP:GNG.
- I acknowledge that some of these sources provide useful context about City Winery, but none appear to provide substantial, sustained, or independent coverage that meets Wikipedia’s notability standards for genuine cultural impact. If more robust sources existed that provided deeper, independent analysis of City Winery’s impact beyond food service and real estate, I would be open to reassessing its notability. However, based on the sources presented, deletion remains the appropriate course of action. Qinifer (talk) 22:13, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- We disagree, and I think at this point, it's best to let other editors form their own opinions about those sources. Again, I appreciate that you must have had quite a bit of aggravation over the promotional editing. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:39, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you. I appreciate that these are not always clear-cut cases, and it’s okay for us to disagree. I genuinely mean it when I say that I appreciate the work and effort you’ve put into this, it’s quality research. We’re both just trying to figure out the best way to apply the guidelines and solve a tricky issue together. I respect both you and the discussion, and I’m glad we could have it. I’ve actually learned a lot from it. Qinifer (talk) 23:54, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- We disagree, and I think at this point, it's best to let other editors form their own opinions about those sources. Again, I appreciate that you must have had quite a bit of aggravation over the promotional editing. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:39, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- When I went looking for sources, I made a deliberate effort to avoid the pitfalls that you assert these four sources have. The first one I cited, by M.B. Bailey, which I don't think you commented on, spends a significant amount of text discussing how "City Winery in New York City illustrates how race may overlap with age and venue in Americana." As a secondary source, she also cites how primary opinions by other authors, specifically about City Winery, support this view. This becomes even more significant when taken alongside the source about Lou Reed, because it provides a context in which the page subject is seen by multiple sources as a culturally significant venue for musical performances. As portrayed by the source material, this isn't just any venue where Reed performed. That source also treats Dorf as someone who knew Reed well and was qualified to comment on Reed as a person, and who commented in the context of performance at that venue, in terms of the specific characteristics of that venue. As for the source about real estate by Fox, I can accept your point that it is the weakest of the sources that I chose to cite. But it isn't simply what you call it, "a mention of a business transaction". Rather, the source discusses that transaction in the context of a wider issue about neighborhood development, providing secondary commentary about how it plays a cultural role in the neighborhood. Either I am missing something, or you are mischaracterizing the two other sources, about reviewing the place as a restaurant. I see no evidence that these sources were paid to write about the Winery, or that they were simply repeating press release material. (I discarded other sources I came across, that did seem to me to fail on these points.) The Tribune staff are providing an independent restaurant review, which NORG explicitly distinguishes from paid placement about restaurants, and the Stewart source is a book about a movement or style in cooking, that provides a detailed and multi-page examination of specific dishes from the menu. These are independent sources about the restaurant, and they are far from in-passing. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- Adding, I can very much sympathize with editors who have had to deal with promotional editing, and I can agree that such disruption should not be rewarded. On the other hand, such edits, once they have been corrected, do not determine the notability of a subject. As I've said, the sourcing to establish notability here is not a slam-dunk, and I can accept that that's open to discussion, but if the page topic is notable, past bad conduct is not a policy-based reason to delete it. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:38, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
- Weak Keep: There seems to be enough sourcing to justify a small article. Schützenpanzer (Talk) 01:00, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: This article does not meet Wikipedia’s notability guidelines as outlined in WP:GNG and WP:NORG and lacks significant coverage in independent, reliable sources to demonstrate lasting encyclopedic value. Furthermore, the articles in question (see below) have a long history of promotional editing, undisclosed paid editing, and conflict-of-interest violations, as documented on their Talk pages. The COI concerns are not hypothetical, they have been thoroughly documented for years, including extensive reports on Talk:Michael Dorf (entrepreneur) (which the City Winery Talk page directs all COI discussion to in order to keep it in one place), where multiple editors flagged that Dorf’s verified relatives and employees were creating and/or manipulating this and other Michael Dorf related pages as part of a coordinated PR effort to promote Michael Dorf's business ventures. Past revisions contained material directly copied from the subject’s website, in violation of WP:NPOV and WP:NOTADVERTISING.
- To address the nominator’s comments, while the page may have originally been created in good faith, it was subsequently hijacked by third party actors' promotional interests, as extensively documented. Given the pattern of promotional activity across multiple related articles (Michael Dorf, Knitting Factory, and City Winery), this article has been abused by subsequent actors to promote an individual and his business interests rather than as a neutral encyclopedia entry. Retaining this page serves no encyclopedic purpose beyond acting as a business directory entry, which is explicitly against Wikipedia’s purpose. Qinifer (talk) 01:55, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- By way of further explanation, further evidence supporting deletion can be found on the Talk:Michael Dorf (entrepreneur) - Wikipedia page, where long-term WP:COI violations are documented. The documentation demonstrates sustained efforts to use the Michael Dorf, Knitting Factory, and City Winery pages as promotional tools for Michael Dorf’s businesses. Edits were made by accounts closely linked to Dorf, including individuals sharing his last name and identified as his immediate family members, as well as repeated undisclosed paid editing. While some edits were reverted, others were not, and the underlying promotional nature of these articles were never meaningfully corrected. Given Wikipedia’s policies against promotional content (WP:NOTADIRECTORY), its requirement for significant independent coverage (WP:GNG), and the other reasons I stated in my previous response, this page should be deleted. Qinifer (talk) 02:11, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:51, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Is not notable under the policy page. Violates these criteria for inclusion in the Encyclopedia:
- - Presumed: Tryptofish did find sources, but 5 news sources covering your business is not significant coverage.
- - Independent of the subject: "Each City Winery location is a fully functioning urban winery, importing grapes from all over the world to create unique locally made wines.". That is not a neutral tone. DotesConks (talk) 03:31, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: none of those 5 sources were news sources. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:53, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Agreed, @DotesConks.
- My concern, based on this new data, and even with you excellently cleaning up the article to eliminate content that was PR copy taken directly from their website, is that the article will remain unable to be fleshed out into one that meet's Wikipedia standards. The current content of the article is a textbook example of exactly the type of article that should be deleted under WP:NOTDIR (not a directory) and WP:CORPDEPTH (insufficient significant coverage beyond routine business reporting and PR). Wikipedia is not a business directory, and WP:NOTDIR makes it clear that simple listings of businesses do not warrant standalone articles. The content of this article amounts to little more than, "There is a business called City Winery with locations in various cities," which is precisely the kind of business cataloging Wikipedia is not meant to host. If it had meaningful cultural or historical significance (which is difficult to achieve, considering that the business is quite new and thus would be difficult to be of "historical significance"), someone would have written about that instead of just listing its offered services, where it is, and who played there.
- The available citations fail to provide substantive coverage of the subject, making it impossible to write a meaningful, encyclopedic article. Instead, as stated above, what exists is a short business listing and advertising PR, because that is all that can be written with the citations available.
- Additionally, WP:GNG requires significant, independent, and sustained coverage in reliable sources. However, the sources provided do not offer substantial analysis of City Winery as a unique cultural or business entity in its own right. They are either brief mentions in the context of business listings, passing references in articles about other topics, or promotional content that does not contribute to notability. Without robust secondary sources that provide a deeper examination of the company’s history, influence, or unique contributions, there is no way to expand this article into something encyclopedic.
- Furthermore, the fact that notable musicians have performed at City Winery locations does not make the venue itself notable (WP:NOTINHERITED). It is merely a standard business operations statement. It is a concert venue. People perform concerts there. Nothing noteworthy about that basic business function. This is the same flawed reasoning that has led to improper justifications for similar business-oriented articles in the past. A venue's significance must be demonstrated through independent third-party coverage that focuses on the venue itself, not simply by listing artists who have played there.
- To clarify:
- This is just a "this place exists" article. That is not an encyclopedic reason for inclusion.
- Wikipedia is not a business directory or a "document everything" database. It is an encyclopedia, and articles need to demonstrate why a subject matters in a broader historical, cultural, or societal context. Right now, the City Winery article lacks that context entirely.
- The article contains: No cultural impact analysis; No historical significance; No indication that it changed or influenced anything; No evidence that it pioneered or defined a movement or trend.
- Instead, the article reads like a glorified brochure or Yelp listing:
- Here’s a business. Here are some locations. Here are some concerts that happened.
- The current citations do not support the capacity for development of a substantial entry. If and when such coverage emerges, an article could be recreated with actual depth. At this stage, however, City Winery does not appear capable of even potentially meeting the threshold for inclusion, and deletion is the most appropriate course of action. Qinifer (talk) 14:32, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
- please stop bludgeoning the discussion @Qinifer or you will lose access to edit it. Star Mississippi 14:54, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
- Quinifer, this page is ~29,000 bytes; of that, you have contributed nearly 20,000. That is not a demonstration of academic rigour. 2A00:23C7:6BBA:ED01:CA8:12E3:13D0:8A44 (talk) 15:31, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. I think we need to hear from more experienced AFD participants. If you've already made an argument, please give new voices some space to review sources with fresh eyes.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:42, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. This one is a close one given the sources, but while there does seem to be some independent secondary sources, the widespread independent coverage in those sources is lacking based on a cursory search. If further evidence towards widespread coverage, it would be more convincing. It also doesn't help that the article as it is currently written is essentially a WP:PROMOTION. GuardianH 04:46, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
Comment: I don't feel comfortable !voting because I'm friends of friends with the owner (Manhattan being the smallest village in the world). I feel obligated to tell you that the son of the owner, Nick, who has used Sockpuppets, has heavily edited the article. The closing administrator must decide whether the sources, which do exist, are significant enough. Bearian (talk) 01:49, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Weak Delete – Two references are OK in my opinion, but that is not enough.Mysecretgarden (talk) 08:29, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete since it really does read like a promotion and is not encyclopedic. Seems there is COI issues too on the owner’s page Michael Dorf. There are many venues for music in any city. We do not need to make article for these unless they really are significant. Ramos1990 (talk)
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The result was redirect to Urbanization in China. Liz Read! Talk! 05:38, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Urban society in China (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This page remains an WP:ESSAY without WP:RS. Urbanization in China already covers the topic. Amigao (talk) 01:54, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:13, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete or redirect This page has only two sources and is an essay. The topic is already covered by Urbanization in China. Opm581 (talk | he/him) 06:54, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete or redirect, per nom Eddie891 Talk Work 10:36, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
- Although this at times reads like an essay, it is an extremely accurate representation of city life in China. It even has a few references, despite being mostly written in 2007. I cannot vote to delete this in good faith – instead, we should merge into Urbanization in China, Culture of the People's Republic of China, Education in China, Housing in China and other appropriate articles. If someone feels like pulling a WP:HEY by adding more citations and toning down the textbook-style voice, this could easily be kept as well. Toadspike [Talk] 18:30, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- In many respects, this article is much better than Urbanization in China, which is a mess. Toadspike [Talk] 18:31, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:31, 19 March 2025 (UTC) - Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:27, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete - we have very clear verification policies WP:V which include WP:BURDEN which states All content must be verifiable. The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and it is satisfied by providing an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports[b] the contribution. In this case I think more than 90% of the page can be deleted as there are no inline citations. On the topic it is hard to see how this could be written without being an essay with considerable personal opinion and/or personal research given the way it has been framed. Delete and if there really is a notable topic which could be written about, for goodness sakes make sure any statements and assertions are verified. JMWt (talk) 15:03, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- No, you cannot delete content solely for lacking inline citations. If you would like to challenge any specific claims, let me know, and I will find sources for them. In addition, this article currently cites four sources, which is not much, but you would have to check that the information cannot be found in those sources before removing it.
- As someone with decent knowledge of Chinese history, I can guarantee that most of what's written is obviously true, perhaps even to a WP:BLUESKY level for people familiar with the area. I do not currently have the capacity to find sources for all of this, but deletion on the grounds of WP:V would be a terrible misapplication of that policy. If the consensus is that this page must go, it should be merged or redirected, not deleted. Toadspike [Talk] 15:19, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- wrong. Any material lacking an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports[b] the material may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source. You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with WP:BURDEN. JMWt (talk) 16:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- I am horrified that one can read all of BURDEN, especially the four sentences after the one you've quoted, as supporting the deletion of "more than 90% of the page" for not having inline citations. But this theoretical discussion is moot, since Cunard has helpfully found a live link to the public domain source from which most of this page was copied. Toadspike [Talk] 02:29, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- Leaving aside the discussion about whether in 2025 we can have articles with many paragraphs of claims without inline referencing because something something handwave single reference at bottom of the page - the substantive question is whether this reference is even a reliable third party source and whether it is even on topic. Given that you've clearly spent a lot of time reviewing and thinking about it, maybe you would like to weigh in on whether a publication apparently funded by the US government is reliable on a topic relating to urban china and whether the source is even talking about the topic of this page. Even if it is, that's one source. JMWt (talk) 11:58, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- I am horrified that one can read all of BURDEN, especially the four sentences after the one you've quoted, as supporting the deletion of "more than 90% of the page" for not having inline citations. But this theoretical discussion is moot, since Cunard has helpfully found a live link to the public domain source from which most of this page was copied. Toadspike [Talk] 02:29, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- wrong. Any material lacking an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports[b] the material may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source. You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with WP:BURDEN. JMWt (talk) 16:29, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Urbanization in China (with the history preserved under the redirect) per Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow editors to selectively merge any content that can be reliably sourced to the target article. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow the redirect to be undone if significant coverage in reliable sources is found in the future. Cunard (talk) 23:17, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- The article says:
I found some of the text from here for example. Substantial portions of the article are copied from or based on that public domain source so those portions do not violate Wikipedia:Verifiability. Cunard (talk) 23:17, 28 March 2025 (UTC)This article incorporates text from this source, which is in the public domain. Country Studies. Federal Research Division. [72]
- The article says:
- Redirect to Urbanization in China per nom and the previous comment. Paprikaiser (talk) 21:29, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Urbanization in China per nom and above.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:38, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 05:20, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Nat Turnher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Biography of a porn performer with extravagant claims of notability sourced to a promotional user-generated IMDb biography. Other sources are user-generated or unreliable scraper sites. A WP:BEFORE search only yields a report that the subject got sued. Everything else consists of press releases, cast rosters or award rosters, no substantial secondary source coverage. Fails WP:BASIC and WP:NACTOR. • Gene93k (talk) 03:24, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete I agree with the nominator that there is no substantial secondary source coverage - fails WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. FlipandFlopped ツ 18:05, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, Insufficient coverage by independent, reliable secondary sources to pass WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:39, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 05:19, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- List of MLS on ESPN personalities (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject does not appear to have notability as a list topic under WP:LISTN with a complete lack of any type of reliable, secondary sourcing of the group either here or in a BEFORE. Let'srun (talk) 01:26, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Television, Football, and Lists. Let'srun (talk) 01:26, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment – Please provide me reliable secondary sources that meet WP:NLIST. ⋆。˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚。⋆ 15:52, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Merge to MLS on ESPN#Personalities as an ATD. Conyo14 (talk) 18:43, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Currently, all of the info is unsourced. I oppose a merge on that basis, but am fine with a redirect to that target. Let'srun (talk) 00:39, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- The section is empty, so it would be a redirect to nothing. Conyo14 (talk) 17:21, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Currently, all of the info is unsourced. I oppose a merge on that basis, but am fine with a redirect to that target. Let'srun (talk) 00:39, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 19:08, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect as above. GiantSnowman 19:12, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Strong delete I don't see this as a search term, I see no value in the article. Fails WP:LISTN. Govvy (talk) 10:50, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: per nom ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 03:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Agree with the nomination, this should be deleted. ScrabbleTiles (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was merge to $Libra cryptocurrency scandal. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:19, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
- Hayden Davis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article, apart from being a massive WP:BLPCRIME violation, doesn't meet WP:CRIMINAL. A merge is not appropriate per BLPCRIME. This guy was not high profile before the ongoing scandal. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:03, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Merge and redirect to $Libra cryptocurrency scandal. As per nominator at the moment this is a WP:BLPCRIME issue (perhaps not a "massive" one IMHO). If his involvement ends up being confirmed with a conviction or other developments arise article history will be there.Pinging @Cambalachero and @30Four as participants in a related merge discussion on Talk:$Libra cryptocurrency scandal. Oblivy (talk) 01:11, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to $Libra cryptocurrency scandal. Alternatively, an article on the La Baron family could be created since he's not the only scandal-plagued member of the family. Not notable enough for a standalone article at this time. Giannini Goldman (talk) 01:31, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Merge Even if Davis is not relevant for a standalone article, a brief "Who is Hayden Davis?" info would be useful in the article about the scandal. But either if the article is merged or deleted, it should ultimately be turned into a redirect. Cambalachero (talk) 03:40, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- I agree that a section in $Libra cryptocurrency scandal with subheadings for each of the major players (Davis, Mauricio Novelli, and KIP Protocol) would be useful. Giannini Goldman (talk) 15:30, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- WP:BLPCRIME says the opposite, notwithstanding how useful it would be. We don't name low-profile people who haven't been convicted; this guy hasn't even been charged with a crime yet. voorts (talk/contributions) 15:49, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Davis or Novelli are not so low-profile that WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE applies at this point: Novelli has a public Instagram account with 20,000 followers and Argentina is requesting an Interpol notice against Davis (in addition to the in-depth WSJ article on him generally rather than just the 1E and the coverage in Argentina). He's not "low profile" and it wouldn't take much more to give him Wikipedia notability. Giannini Goldman (talk) 16:46, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Having a lot of instagram followers does not make someone not low profile for Wikipedia purposes, nor does Interpol issuing a warrant; if an arrest warrant made someone a public figure, then BLPCRIME would be a dead letter because every criminal would be a public figure. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:04, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Realize you're an admin but what standard would you use for "public figure" or "well known"? WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE says: "Many Wikipedia articles contain material on people who are not well known, regardless of whether they are notable enough for their own article." It suggests three levels of notoriety: not well-known/low-profile, well-known/public figure but not Wikipedia notable, and Wikipedia notable. Novelli and Davis seem to fit into the middle category and fit the tests described at WP:WIALPI for being high profile without achieving Wiki notability so we should be able to discuss allegations against them covered in multiple reliable sources (without a presumption of conviction) as WP:WELLKNOWN? Giannini Goldman (talk) 20:11, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- My being an admin is irrelevant; sometimes I'm wrong. Maybe the others meet the public figure guideline; I just don't see Davis as meeting that since all of the news stories appear to have only come out because of his alleged involvement in this scheme. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:38, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- I'm going through the criteria at WP:Who is a low-profile individual and Davis seems to meet all of the criteria for being "high profile" except maybe "eminence"? Even there I think there's a strong argument that he's sought "a position of pre-eminence, power, or authority in a field of research, a sport, a business market, a political sphere, or other area of human endeavor".
- I realize that's not a policy but it is linked from WP:PUBLICFIGURE which is policy? Giannini Goldman (talk) 22:40, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- My being an admin is irrelevant; sometimes I'm wrong. Maybe the others meet the public figure guideline; I just don't see Davis as meeting that since all of the news stories appear to have only come out because of his alleged involvement in this scheme. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:38, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Realize you're an admin but what standard would you use for "public figure" or "well known"? WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE says: "Many Wikipedia articles contain material on people who are not well known, regardless of whether they are notable enough for their own article." It suggests three levels of notoriety: not well-known/low-profile, well-known/public figure but not Wikipedia notable, and Wikipedia notable. Novelli and Davis seem to fit into the middle category and fit the tests described at WP:WIALPI for being high profile without achieving Wiki notability so we should be able to discuss allegations against them covered in multiple reliable sources (without a presumption of conviction) as WP:WELLKNOWN? Giannini Goldman (talk) 20:11, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Having a lot of instagram followers does not make someone not low profile for Wikipedia purposes, nor does Interpol issuing a warrant; if an arrest warrant made someone a public figure, then BLPCRIME would be a dead letter because every criminal would be a public figure. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:04, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Davis or Novelli are not so low-profile that WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE applies at this point: Novelli has a public Instagram account with 20,000 followers and Argentina is requesting an Interpol notice against Davis (in addition to the in-depth WSJ article on him generally rather than just the 1E and the coverage in Argentina). He's not "low profile" and it wouldn't take much more to give him Wikipedia notability. Giannini Goldman (talk) 16:46, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- WP:BLPCRIME says the opposite, notwithstanding how useful it would be. We don't name low-profile people who haven't been convicted; this guy hasn't even been charged with a crime yet. voorts (talk/contributions) 15:49, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- I agree that a section in $Libra cryptocurrency scandal with subheadings for each of the major players (Davis, Mauricio Novelli, and KIP Protocol) would be useful. Giannini Goldman (talk) 15:30, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- I agree that LOWKEY is generally how we determine who is or is not a public figure. To go through each factor:
- Media attention: he's only received any because of the scandal. Using that media attention to establish that an individual is high profile would undermine WP:BLPCRIME because that implies that any person publicly accused of a crime that receives media coverage would be per se high profile.
- Promotional activity: I haven't seen any evidence of that. Indeed, TheStreet piece cited in the article states: "It's a pretty staggering climb to notoriety for Davis, the CEO of Kelsier Ventures who was a relatively unheard of Liberty University graduate in crypto media circles before his LIBRA token attracted so much attention that he had to start making the rounds in damage control interviews."
- Appearances and performances: again, I haven't seen evidence of appearances other than what TheStreet called "damage control interviews".
- Eminence: obviously not.
- Behavior pattern and activity level: this factor basically requires that the subject meet BLP1E, which Davis does not.
- voorts (talk/contributions) 01:24, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- I moved the last two messages to the talk page. Hope it's ok to continue there since it's not really about deleting the standalone article. Giannini Goldman (talk) 22:12, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- I think we should keep the discussion here. Merging is an ATD that can come out of an AfD. RE Special:Diff/1282188829: I don't think there's a contradiction. Media attention needs to be related to someone doing notable things; BLP1E and BLPCRIME make clear that committing a run-of-the-mill crime (in this case, allegedly some sort of fraud) isn't enough. Otherwise, every subway pusher in NYC would be high profile because they'll have been covered by the NY Post, Daily News, 1010 WINS, channel 11, Newsweek, the NY Times, etc. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:19, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- I moved the last two messages to the talk page. Hope it's ok to continue there since it's not really about deleting the standalone article. Giannini Goldman (talk) 22:12, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep, although I'm a bit biased considering I wrote the article. I see plenty of arguments to merge the article to the $Libra cryptocurrency scandal, which is unfortunate for me, but I agree with Giannini Goldman in one regard: there's plenty of RS & good info within those sources to create a potential LeBaron family page & list him there as well. (Redacted) If he is not independently notable now, I am very confident that this article will be restored in due time. I'm willing to accept if this assessment is incorrect, but in my opinion, his activities & resulting controversy with multiple governments (American & Argentine) felt notable. A majority of the information on this page should exist on Wikipedia in some regard, especially considering Davis/Kelsier's role in multiple variations of the same scheme, considering the publications reporting on this. 30Four (talk) 23:44, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, now that we have a strong Keep, I see no consensus. Ordinarily, I'd close this as a Merge but the nominator has strong objections to that outcome. How about the Redirect option? Does that cross a line for editors sensitive to coverage of low profile indidividuals?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Merge with $Libra cryptocurrency scandal: per nom. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 03:04, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- My nom was to delete, not merge. voorts (talk/contributions) 13:42, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Merge with $Libra cryptocurrency scandal – The subject is not notable for other actions. Svartner (talk) 21:15, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Comment I don't see how WP:LOWKEY applies to this person, as he has sought out media appearances on his own behalf. In particular, this lengthy interview on Dave Portnoy's YouTube Channel (700K+ subscribers). This video is aimed at the public as well although I couldn't find the original post it's clearly self-shot. He may have tried to keep a low profile for a while but he's now clearly seeking attention where he thinks it suits his purposes. Oblivy (talk) 02:25, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. This was based on source assessment and the lack of reliable, independent sources brought to the discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 05:16, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Involve (think tank) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article is not notable per WP:NORG. I have done a thorough WP:BEFORE to the best of my ability. Andrew Cave does not make the charity notable (WP:INHERITORG).
Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
---|---|---|---|---|
The Involve Foundation
|
![]() |
~ I would think so. | ![]() |
✘ No |
Companies House, UK
|
~ Technically, but are just routine listings. | ![]() |
![]() |
~ Partial |
Friedrich-Elbert-Siftung
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✘ No |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}. |
Best, CF-501 Falcon (talk · contribs) 00:48, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete - doesn't have enough reliable sources or they are just mentions.Darkm777 (talk) 02:22, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Although I have been doing my best to learn more, I admit to being quite out of my depth regarding Wikipedia technical conventions, language, etc. so have recused myself from the recent content discussion on the Involve (think-tank) entry. The proposal to delete the Involve entry entirely, however, is a bridge too far, and one I vehemently disagree with. (I strongly suspect that those editors proposing deletion are connected to Involve in some way (or even paid by them?) and simply want to sweep the whole discussion under the carpet.) Think-tanks are a vital part of UK society and this one plays a major role in it. Deleting the entry would be a blatant case of censorship IMHO. Also, the controversy about the Big Tobacco trustee at Involve has apparently resulted in a petition to the UK government petitions service to amend the UK Charities Act so as to close the revolving door between industry lobbyists and charities by introducing a 5-year ban on them taking up trustee posts after leaving their industry position: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/deborah-wa-foulkes_charitygovernance-corruption-bigtobacco-activity-7306164788068306945-dKWb?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&rcm=ACoAAASIBdEB7nQE4xbTkWoM0hmYURwNkITtMeU This petition has acquired the requisite number of preliminary signatures and is now at the checking stage. Once it goes public on the government website people will quite rightly want to inform themselves about the background to it and Wikipedia will have done them a great disservice by deleting the Involve entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chalk giant (talk • contribs) 09:09, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Please refrain from accusing a COI or Paid editing with no background. I am sure @Darkm777 would agree. I found the article through random article (alt-shift-x). For the record I have no affiliation with Involve or any comapany/group. "simply want to sweep the whole discussion under the carpet" again, stop accusing editors.
- "Think-tanks are a vital part of UK society and this one plays a major role in it. Deleting the entry would be a blatant case of censorship" If you can prove it with references I will withdraw my nom, till then you have no basis that this think tank is notable.
- "Also, the controversy about the Big Tobacco trustee at Involve", Please read WP:INHERITORG, the Big Tobacco trustee will not make Involve notable. If you think the petition or the trustee are notable write about them, but the think tank doesn't inherit the notability. Best, CF-501 Falcon (talk · contribs) 11:28, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Chalk giant I would be glad to reconsider my nomination should you produce some better sources. It doesn't matter how important or popular you think this organization is. If they were popular enough they would have more news coverage and qualify. This is the basis of Wikipedia Notability Guidelines. Darkm777 (talk) 01:41, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Plus one. Same sentiment. CF-501 Falcon (talk · contribs) 00:18, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, I can't delete this as a Soft Deletion as there is an unbolded Keep vote here. We will need to hear from a few more participants. It would be most helpful if you responded to the source analysis or brought up any new sources you have located.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:26, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: The best coverage I could find was three sentences in this source (pages 160-161), which isn't really significant. Searching for SIGCOV is difficult because of the generic name, and the fact that a lot of sources merely cite one of Involve's publications without covering Involve. My search wasn't exhaustive, but I do not think SIGCOV is likely to exist. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 01:49, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. This isn’t the strongest consensus, but the generally held opinion is that NSONG is met, and GNG has plausibly been shown to be met as well. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 16:51, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
- Zombieboy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NSONG, which specifies that coverage of a song in the context of album reviews is insufficient to demonstrate notability. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:04, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:04, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Pinging @RangersRus, who accepted this at AFC. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- The song made it to the top charts on UK billboard and on Billboard Hot 100 chart. So it meets the criteria Has been ranked on national or significant music or sales charts. and also has coverage by The Guardian and by Billboard, and Capitalfm, UK's No.1 Hit Music Station. RangersRus (talk) 02:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Charting is not a criterion for notability. That's listed under the following:
Any of the following factors suggest that a song or single may be notable enough that a search for coverage in reliable independent sources will be successful.
The Guardian source is an album review, which the guideline explicitly states does not contribute to notability for a song. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 02:20, 19 March 2025 (UTC)- The Capitalfm and Billboard have coverage focusing on the song alone. RangersRus (talk) 02:26, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- That is not enough coverage to establish notability. The Billboard is totally trivial, just "Lady Gaga posts a TikTok" and is not about the song. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 03:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- KEEP: That's not what WP:NSONGS defines as "trivial". Again, please read the rules instead of coming up with your own.
- "Non-trivial" excludes personal websites, blogs, bulletin boards, Usenet posts, wikis and other media that are not themselves reliable.
- If you find the content of the article trivial, that's your own personal problem. — Amenvodka (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 22:38, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- That it excludes unreliable sources does not mean it includes everything not published by an unreliable source. All encyclopedic subjects require WP:SIGCOV. "Lady Gaga posted a TikTok set to this song" does not make this song notable. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 23:48, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- That is not enough coverage to establish notability. The Billboard is totally trivial, just "Lady Gaga posts a TikTok" and is not about the song. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 03:32, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- The Capitalfm and Billboard have coverage focusing on the song alone. RangersRus (talk) 02:26, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Charting is not a criterion for notability. That's listed under the following:
- The song made it to the top charts on UK billboard and on Billboard Hot 100 chart. So it meets the criteria Has been ranked on national or significant music or sales charts. and also has coverage by The Guardian and by Billboard, and Capitalfm, UK's No.1 Hit Music Station. RangersRus (talk) 02:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect to Mayhem (Lady Gaga album) this doesn't meet WP:NSONGS when the only credible sources outside of album reviews or artist commentary just give brief mentions that are less than a cumulative paragraph. Definitely not sufficient for a separate article, so the draft shouldn't have been accepted at AFC. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 01:42, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Please see my comment above. RangersRus (talk) 02:09, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- For reference:
꧁Zanahary꧂ 02:25, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
Songs and singles are probably notable if they have been the subject[1] of multiple,[2] non-trivial[3] published works whose sources are independent of the artist and label. This includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, television documentaries or reviews. This excludes media reprints of press releases, or other publications where the artist, its record label, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the work.[4] Coverage of a song in the context of an album review does not establish notability. If the only coverage of a song occurs in the context of reviews of the album on which it appears, that material should be contained in the album article and an independent article about the song should not be created.Notability aside, a standalone article is appropriate only when there is enough material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album. A standalone article about a song should satisfy the above criteria. Any of the following factors suggest that a song or single may be notable enough that a search for coverage in reliable independent sources will be successful.- Has been ranked on national or significant music or sales charts. (Note again that this indicates only that a song may be notable, not that it is notable.)
- Has won one or more significant awards or honors, such as a Grammy, Latin Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award.
- Has been independently released as a recording by several notable artists, bands, or groups.
References
- ^ The "subject" of a work means non-trivial treatment and excludes mere mention of the song/single, its musician/band or of its publication, price listings and other non-substantive detail treatment.
- ^ The number of reliable sources necessary to establish notability is different for songs from different eras. Reliable sources available (especially online) increases as one approaches the present day.
- ^ "Non-trivial" excludes personal websites, blogs, bulletin boards, Usenet posts, wikis and other media that are not themselves reliable. Be careful to check that the musician, record label, agent, vendor. etc. of a particular song/single are in no way affiliated with any third party source.
- ^ Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopedia article. The published works must be someone else writing about the song/single. The barometer of notability is whether people independent of the subject itself (or of its artist, record label, vendor or agent) have actually considered the song/single notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial works that focus upon it.
- Comment. The sources I agree do not have not enough coverage and the ones that do are not independent of the artist. But the song has made it on many charts that are national or significant music or sales charts. Per WP:NSONG, the song meets the criteria Has been ranked on national or significant music or sales charts. (Note again that this indicates only that a song may be notable, not that it is notable). The may be notable is presumptive but not denying notability. I will leave it to this. RangersRus (talk) 12:53, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- You appear to believe "may be notable" is synonymous with "probably notable". That is a common mistake among Wikipedians and is why the "not that it is notable" part gets included (even when often overlooked). Either way, whenever there is little to no coverage from sources that aren't album reviews or artist commentary, it becomes moot whether a song enters any charts. We thus shouldn't assume that charting can compensate for minimal depth in sources that discuss the song at all. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 16:59, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Probably TOOSOON for the song. The Billboard article about the dance trend is probably the best source. Rest are rather trivial coverage. The song was only released this month, probably needs time before the music-consuming public decides if it's the "killer hit of the summer" or some such thing. Oaktree b (talk) 14:49, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- That chart clause is in the context of things about a song that are positive indicators that a search for coverage would make a case for notability. The coverage is still what establishes notability. Charting does not presume notability. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 17:13, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- My point was that if the song gets popular, people will write about it. That's usually what I've had to wait for when writing articles in the past. The song is big, but not big enough as no one's written about it yet. Oaktree b (talk) 00:59, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- My reply was somehow misplaced—this was a reply to this comment, not yours. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 02:33, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Change to Redirect to the album’s page ꧁Zanahary꧂ 02:28, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- My point was that if the song gets popular, people will write about it. That's usually what I've had to wait for when writing articles in the past. The song is big, but not big enough as no one's written about it yet. Oaktree b (talk) 00:59, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. I'm voting the same as I did for the other recently-nominated Lady Gaga songs. I think a fork from the album article is appropriate given the charting, coverage, and amount of content here. I'd prefer to see this article expanded and improved, not deleted. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:23, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep Randompersonediting (✍️•📚) 14:19, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Please make an argument @Randompersonediting ꧁Zanahary꧂ 21:04, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- It is suggested that the article be moved to a draft for further improvement. Randompersonediting (✍️•📚) 15:27, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep. The article has enough verifiable content to expand further, including chart performance and critical reception. There's also potential for future updates on live performances and additional media coverage as the Mayhem era continues.--CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 15:59, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- @CHr0m4tiko0, were you canvassed here on your Talk page? ꧁Zanahary꧂ 21:06, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- While the message Another Believer left on CHr0m4tiko0's talk page was given neutral phrasing instead of asking for a specific stance, and thus technically wouldn't count as canvassing, I personally wouldn't be surprised if the intent was to obtain another "keep" vote here. I definitely got suspicious when seeing a quick follow-up complaining about AFD nominations. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 22:31, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- I'm more interested in getting editors to collaborate and help improve the article. I am not particularly worried about the outcome of this discussion or what happens to any of the Lady Gaga song articles. I think the topics are notable, but if the articles get moved back into the draft space, who cares. I am not going to lose any sleep over this. I am going to move on to other areas of Wikipedia -- working on Gaga songs hasn't really been enjoyable. Happy editing, ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:38, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- I've supported all the song articles from Mayhem because there's clearly a lot of sourced content—chart performance, critical reviews, and more—that can be properly developed in each case. As one of the main contributors to the album article, I’ve often tried to add more material, though some of it gets trimmed for relevance or length. That’s why I support this and the other song pages: to ensure that information has a place if and when it's appropriate to include it. Plus, the era is just getting started—there’s still a lot to come that will further expand these articles. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 02:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Not every song from the album warrants a page, also let's not perpetuate the misconception that charts entitle them to articles, and critical reviews only count towards notability when they're not just part of general album reviews. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:44, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Fair point—I'm not saying charts or reviews alone are enough. Just contributing to what's already there, not creating these pages from scratch. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 03:11, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Not every song from the album warrants a page, also let's not perpetuate the misconception that charts entitle them to articles, and critical reviews only count towards notability when they're not just part of general album reviews. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 02:44, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- I've supported all the song articles from Mayhem because there's clearly a lot of sourced content—chart performance, critical reviews, and more—that can be properly developed in each case. As one of the main contributors to the album article, I’ve often tried to add more material, though some of it gets trimmed for relevance or length. That’s why I support this and the other song pages: to ensure that information has a place if and when it's appropriate to include it. Plus, the era is just getting started—there’s still a lot to come that will further expand these articles. CHr0m4tiko0 (talk) 02:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- I'm more interested in getting editors to collaborate and help improve the article. I am not particularly worried about the outcome of this discussion or what happens to any of the Lady Gaga song articles. I think the topics are notable, but if the articles get moved back into the draft space, who cares. I am not going to lose any sleep over this. I am going to move on to other areas of Wikipedia -- working on Gaga songs hasn't really been enjoyable. Happy editing, ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:38, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- While the message Another Believer left on CHr0m4tiko0's talk page was given neutral phrasing instead of asking for a specific stance, and thus technically wouldn't count as canvassing, I personally wouldn't be surprised if the intent was to obtain another "keep" vote here. I definitely got suspicious when seeing a quick follow-up complaining about AFD nominations. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 22:31, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus here yet. We either need better sources or perhaps more support for a Redirect which is typically the outcome in AFDs about songs which have borderline notability.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:15, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: The track doesn't meet WP:NSONGS when the only credible sources outside of album reviews or artist commentary just give brief mentions. At least for now. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 14:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep In addition to meeting the non-binding indicia in WP:NSONG that the song "Has been ranked on national or significant music or sales charts", there are at least three articles in RS that meet WP:NSONG. The statements above that the only credible sources outside of album reviews or artist commentary "just give brief mentions" are simply false. As mentioned above, Billboard on March 18 and People.com on March 19 did a piece on how the song specifically is inspiring trends on Tiktok, and CapitalFM has a piece analyzing the meaning of the lyrics. Each of the three articles are clearly about "Zombieboy" specifically and the song's impacts on popular culture. Some editors allege that coverage about Tiktok trends and analyses of song lyrics do not meet the "non-trivial" requirement under WP:NSONG. Fortunately, NSONG provides a precise definition of what "non-trivial" means: "Non-trivial" excludes personal websites, blogs, bulletin boards, Usenet posts, wikis and other media that are not themselves reliable. Be careful to check that the musician, record label, agent, vendor. etc. of a particular song/single are in no way affiliated with any third party source" So, let's apply NSONG as it is written: neither of the three articles are a "personal website", "blog", "bulletin board", "usenet post", "wiki", or "other media which is not itself reliable". If users wish to import "coverage of song-related social media trends" or "lyric analyses" as a category of "trivial coverage", they should start an RFC and propose that those be added into WP:NSONG instead of litigating it at random through AfD nominations of individual pop songs. IMHO, the guidelines as written result in a clear keep outcome here. FlipandFlopped ツ 16:00, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: I agree with the points raised by User:Flipandflopped – enough coverage to warrant its own article. --Sricsi (talk) 22:42, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep per Flipandflopped's sources, plus at least Stephen Daw's article linked in the article is a discussion of the songs on the album including this one and not an album review per se. Rlendog (talk) 14:34, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . Liz Read! Talk! 02:02, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Killing of Sulivan Sauvey (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This is technically now a copyright violation because the original frwiki article this is a translation of was deleted (for failing their quite different notability rules). Even if it wasn't I am not sure this passes NEVENT. Coverage is mostly just when it happened, afterwards there's some but not a lot, so idk if WP:LASTING is satisfied: [73] [74] [75] idk if that is enough. Also aforementioned copyright violation PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:38, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete : per nom Lord Mountbutter (talk) 19:04, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . Liz Read! Talk! 00:56, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Bathinda military station firing (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not pass WP:NEVENT. There's news he got sentenced but basically nothing else between or since. Though, I do not know what the names of the event and people would be in the native language, so I could not search that. If notability proving coverage does exist there feel free to present it. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:25, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete. From reviewing news coverage of the event, it seems like an unfortunate outgrowth of a fight amongst soldiers with no lasting significance or broad coverage. I couldn't identify a suitable WP:ATD target either. Longhornsg (talk) 03:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 00:54, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Laura Barton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The subject fails both WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. Notably, out of the four articles on the page, two are self-published by the subject. TheWikiholic (talk) 01:20, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Keep: have expanded with book review, radio series review, photo-essay and forthcoming memoir, all sourced. PamD 09:20, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- The article currently has 8 references, with 4 from The Guardian and 1 from The Independent, both of which the subject has written for. Additionally, 2 references are written by the subject themselves. However, the article still lacks WP:SIGCOV]] as the sources primarily focus on reviews related to the subject, lacking the in-depth coverage essential for a BLP. TheWikiholic (talk) 16:57, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: Based on improvements by PamD, I have removed the older January 2013 and December 2020 tags. Let's see how this goes. — Maile (talk) 15:49, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep Evening Standard has a substantial review of Twenty-One Locks, "Jeannie's dreams of escape" by Rosamund Urwin, 8 July 2010. That adds to the other reviews and is independent. duffbeerforme (talk) 01:10, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Added that review plus another Independent one. Best I can tell she started writing for the Independent circa 2019, nearly a decade after the reviews in that publication so they had no problems with being (small i) independent. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:30, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:HEY. It's much better sourced than it was 36 hours ago. Bearian (talk) 02:02, 28 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:01, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Dominic Presa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable credits, likely to fail WP:N/CREATIVE KH-1 (talk) 01:03, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- All credits may be reviewed as noteworthy, with sources directing to IMDB to prove legitimacy DOANPR (talk) 03:27, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
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- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 01:17, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete – Per nom. Using an IMDb profile and being listed on a festival line-up as sources shows the lack of in-depth coverage. Svartner (talk) 01:41, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete No coverage found. This seems to be a case of WP:TOOSOON. RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:46, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was redirect to List of people executed in Ohio. Liz Read! Talk! 00:52, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- Donald L. Palmer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Neither the criminal the victims nor the event pass any notability guideline we have, whether for execution or the crime. There are also two criminals and two victims here so if it was notable it should have been written as "Murder of Charles Sponhaltz and Steven Vargo" but it's not notable that way either (unless, I guess, you're using the execution as the claim of notability, but the article doesn't do that successfully either). Redirect to List of people executed in Ohio, where he is listed? PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:58, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
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Delete - Nothing notable about this case, run of the mill execution. Inexpiable (talk) 19:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- I wouldn't even bother leaving a redirect behind. Straight up delete. Inexpiable (talk) 21:55, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- I tend towards recommending a redirect for people who have been executed because they tend to often reappear, which a redirect dissuades. It also gets you where you want to go so the purpose of a redirect is fulfilled imo PARAKANYAA (talk) 20:16, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can . Liz Read! Talk! 00:39, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
- 2025 Meerut Merchant Navy officer murder (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not pass WP:NEVENT. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime and India. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:40, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events and Uttar Pradesh. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:36, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. Wikipedia is not a repository for news articles. It would only be appropriate to create this article if the murder went on to receive significant secondary coverage beyond news coverage. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 03:39, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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