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I posted a copy from the section of Byzantine Empire as a guide by which to revise this article to make it unique. Get creative, change the maps, add a lot of original information! Monsieurdl 13:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I propose merging Macedonian dynasty into this article. Dynasties with their own articles (Komnenos, Doukas, Angelos, Laskaris, Palaiologos) are known as House of x, while articles on previous dynasties are about the country in the period of the dynasty's rule. Valentinian dynasty and Theodosian dynasty actually use the 'former country' infobox, which implies this too, even though they are named as if they were about the dynasty. Although Constantinian dynasty and Leonid dynasty are exceptions to this. The Macedonian dynasty is not conceived as a noble family in the same way as the Komnenoi or Palaiologoi so it should be merged with this article, which is of the 'historical period of former country' type. Violoncello10104 (talk) 04:45, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. There are no rules in Wikipedia about the naming of dynasties, either as "House of X" or as "X dynasty" or just as "X". And the Macedonian dynasty very much is as a royal family whose legitimacy was grounded in blood or familial relations, indeed the one that set the pattern for the subsequent Komnenian, Angelid, and Palaiologan dynasties. The very fact that two sisters could share the throne without a husband just because they belonged to that family against the usual norms of the time is ample testament to this. Either way, the dynasty itself is extensive and well documented enough to warrant its own article, beyond the history of the Byzantine state under its rule. Constantine ✍ 17:36, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for your input. Do you think that, ideally, all the dynasties should have their own separate articles from the 'Byzantine Empire under x dynasty' articles? I'm not necessarily opposed to this, I just think it should be consistent. Also, surely the term 'house' signifies a more developed model of aristocracy, such that the Komnenian dynasty is more similar to the Doukas than it is to the Macedonian and Amorian. Or, should we also remove all mentions of 'House of x'? Violoncello10104 (talk) 18:04, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Violoncello10104 ideally yes, a family should be distinct from the state that it governed, but of course there can be exceptions for very short-lived dynasties, or where not enough data exist on the family other than its ruling members. To give an example, the biographies of junior members of a dynasty are usually irrelevant for the history of the state, but relevant for the dynasty, although some aspects are of course still overlapping: e.g. any examination of the Byzantine Empire under the Komnenian emperors must make a mention of the dynastic basis of the ruling elite, and the close intertwining of noble houses that appeared during that time, and give some examples of what the junior Komnenian princes were up to. Constantine ✍ 10:29, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  The Komnenos family with its many cadet branches and an extended network of marital alliances is quite different than some early Byzantine dynasties. Some of them represent only one or two generations of a family line, and their reign was ephemeral. Dimadick (talk) 21:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]