Talk:For Your Pleasure

Good articleFor Your Pleasure has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 4, 2025Good article nomineeNot listed
June 15, 2025Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

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Judy Dench

The article repeats the common internet assertion that Judy Dench provided the female voice on the final track. This may indeed be true, but the ref for the claim is weak - it's a Pitchfork article which is little more than a personal essay. We need a better ref if we're going to state that this is other than an urban myth. Ef80 (talk) 14:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've tagged it. --Ef80 (talk) 15:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ref now improved, thanks. Must be true then :) --Ef80 (talk) 17:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:For Your Pleasure/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: LastJabberwocky (talk · contribs) 16:05, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 04:34, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]


Hello, I'll review this article within the next day or two. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 04:34, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, awaiting my firsts GA review (as a nominator) with terror and excitement! —LastJabberwocky (talk) 08:01, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
LastJabberwocky, a preliminary note before the full review: the article is very quote-heavy. The vast majority of the article should be written in one's own words. For example, Bryan Ferry wrote the "good portion" of the album within a two week writing spree doesn't need to be a quotation because you could write Bryan Ferry wrote most of the album within a two week writing spree. Compare ends with voice of Judi Dench saying "You don't ask. You don't ask why". where that really has to be a quote because the exact wording needs to be imparted. Would you be willing to go through and paraphrase most of the article's quotations (while also keeping WP:CLOP in mind) before I review the article? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 19:16, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, especially "background" and "production" sections (with music and reception would be more tricky). It' 22:35 my time so I would get to it tomorrow :) —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 19:35, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Thebiguglyalien: I rephrased some of the quotes mostly focusing on "background", "production" and release. If there any other quotes that feel awkward or can easily rephrased, let me know. Or if copyvios picks up anything. As a sidenot, I also want to add full record sleeve image, which will be the first image I'll add to wiki (so keep me in check :)). —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 06:59, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also I am aware about citation needed tags, I'll probably remove the info, but let me check another time if they are sources to support the uncited claims. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 07:05, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A sizeable amount of the article is still quotations. Besides the article not being entirely written when it's substituted with quotations, extensive use of quotes is a copyright violation because they are non-free content. Right now I don't believe it qualifies as a GA. If you're willing to go through and write the article in your own words over the next couple days then I can take another look at it afterward, or I can close the review so you can take your time to make whatever changes you feel appropriate and then have another reviewer give their opinion. It's totally up to you. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 14:54, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Thebiguglyalien:I rephrased all Pitchfork phrases picked up by copyvios and other adjacent quotes I grabbed onto; the blog with ~80% match is the wiki mirror. I really like to be closer to perfection, and it's slightly painful to ruin perfectly good sentence. BUT you don't need to explain the downsides of copyright violation :). I hope the changes are sufficient. We can further paraphrase if necessary. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 15:58, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we're going to come to an agreement on how an article has to be written to qualify as a GA. It wouldn't be fair of me to pull you through a WP:FIXLOOP, so I'm going to close the review and allow you to decide what to do with it. You're welcome to renominate it at any time you feel it meets the GA criteria, and a new reviewer can provide their own opinion on the article. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 17:20, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Moved from User talk:Thebiguglyalien
 – Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 18:03, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

I was really excited to work with because you seem to be picky. I'm also picky and often feel as if I bothering nominators with perfecting and polishing. In this case maybe you was too picky with the amount of quotes capped for an album article. They unavoidably OR should be investigated on a case-by-case basis with more patience. For example here are random approximately equally-sized good article (not only in name) by the number of question marks because I'm lazy to count quotes: Ghost in the Machine (song) (272), Autobahn (album) (332), "Heroes" (album) (585; and it's larger than FYP but not much). For Your Pleasure got 268 quotation marks. I don't the copyright policy is unreasonable, but if copyvios doesn't pick up anything and the quotes doesn't ruin the reading experience, I don't think it's major problem (especially with something that abstract as music). —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 17:48, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

LastJabberwocky, note that most of the quotation marks in those articles are from reference formatting or from the titles of songs. If you disagree with my assessment of the article, you can appeal it at WT:GAN or renominate it so it can be evaluated by a different reviewer. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 18:05, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Thebiguglyalien: I'm not disagreeing, I just don't think put due weight into an appropriate amount of quotations in a music-related article. Obviously some of the quotation marks are songs and refs, like with For Your Pleasure, and obviously almost all of the quotes can be paraphrased but in music the quotes are really important to carry not just a fact but a feeling of a song/album/performance nicely captured by a music reviewer who knows how to wield words. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 18:11, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

GA review

Passed. Cattos💭 17:42, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:For Your Pleasure/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: LastJabberwocky (talk · contribs) 17:50, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Cathodography (talk · contribs) 00:47, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]


Hello, LastJabberwocky! I've decided that I would try experimenting in reviewing a GAN, since we've had a little bit of interaction in The Queen Is Dead and Nicolinas, I'll be your GA reviewer. I'm a very new reviewer, but I understand how frustrating that must be. Since this is only my first review, if you want a more experienced reviewer, please let me know. After learning from my GANs and stalking other GANs, I feel that I am confident for this review. For now, these are my initial comments. Cattos💭 00:47, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I get good vibes from your work (I stalked your BCNR nomination I want to pick up), so I think we'll perform a nice GA review. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 05:26, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've noticed that the article has many instances of quotes. Instead of acting picky, especially for my first review, like the last nomination, I want to try to give a few copyediting solutions. Cattos💭 14:26, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Only a spotcheck is left; I am really proud of myself of the result of this review! Please expect me to do so in a few hours. Cattos💭 13:09, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Very interesting album, one I enjoyed listening to while reviewing this article! Overall, a good article :) Prose-wise the article had some problems, but I'm glad I could spot the errors. Nice work on this seminal album! Cattos💭 17:42, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

· · ·

Lead

  • Wikilink synthesiser.
    •  Done
  • Is there a source that says that explicitly says it was the last to feature a synthesiser, or with Brian Eno?
    • I think it falls under the WP:SKYISBLUE; Eno left the band after For Your Pleasure tour and isn't credited on any of their future albums. After I removed "sound specialist", the sentence became clearer.
  • Would recommend eliminating false titles throughout the article (e.g. "and sound specialist Brian Eno" --> "and the sound specialist Brian Eno")
    • Removed
  • "featuring more elaborate production and experiments" could be made more grammatically consistent. --> "featuring a more elaborate production and experimentation"?
    •  Done
  • "The album proved to be even more commercially successful than their debut" carries a mildly promotional tone. Consider rephrasing it to a more neutral phrasing such as "The album was more commercially successful than their debut"
    •  Done
  • "peaking at number 4" --> "peaking at number four" MOS:NUMERAL
    •  Done
  • I believe that acronyms are generally discouraged per MOS:ACRO. try "British Phonographic Industry (BPI)" rather than just "BPI".
    •  Done
  • "and is today regarded as Roxy Music's best album" contains a MOS:DATED expression. Try "and has been described as Roxy Music's best album in retrospective reviews."
    •  Done

Background

  • Do you think that mood board can get a WL?
    •  Done
  • "1973 winter" avoid using seasons to refer to a particular time of year, as they are often unduly ambiguous per MOS:SEASON
  • I don't think "glimpses of modern sophistication" needs a quote. Try "elements of modern sophistication"
    •  Done
  • Can you confirm if Hamilton was prominent at the time?
  • "the better part of the album" may be too vague or needs attribution
    • The source doesn't say what songs exactly were finished; I assume all songs except the demoes they had for the debut. Don't know. It's safe to say most of them were finished. I use "better part of" to avoid using "most". These words seem synonymous but I'm not against paraphrasing. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 16:58, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Production

  • "Air Studios" --> "AIR Studios" (acronym)
    •  Done
  • "At first the band" --> "At first, the band"
  •  Done
  • "engineering side" --> "audio engineering?
    •  Done
  • "but the project with John" which John? Only refer to surname.
    •  Done
  • "wasn't" --> "was not" MOS:CONTRACTION There are more instantes of contractions, excluding quotes.
    •  Done
  • "realized" --> "realised" British spelling
    •  Done
  • "In Every Dream Home a Headache" does not need to be linked since it is already linked in Background.
    •  Done
  • "Ferry told the Melody Maker" the Melody Maker?
    •  Done
  • "that initially the lyrics were twice as long in parts reciting an idea rather than accumulating into a song, and he had to cut them in half" --> "that, initially, some of the lyrics were twice as long, focusing more on reciting ideas than forming a cohesive song, so he had to cut them in half"
    •  Done

Artwork

  • Italicize confidante and protégée
    •  Done
  • "The image has been described 'as famous as the album itself' " by who? Is Eurodancehits.com a reliable source?
    • Removed
  • Try "and ranked by Rolling Stone and Billboard among the '100 Best Album Covers of All Time' "
    •  Done
  • Attribute the Pitchfork author
    •  Done
  • "feeling it was glamorous and pretentious, and too obvious" is this an exact quote?
    • The quote that I tried to rephrase: "..it's all becoming too stereotyped. Personally I'd prefer a nice unpretentious unglamorous picture of the band, wearing false beards and denims and standing around a tree, with 'Support Ecology' on the back of the sleeve." I changed "too stereotyped" to "obvious".
  • I think the Eno quote is rather lengthy. Could we paraphrase it or cut it down? Note that the combination of "unpretentious unglamorous" needs a [sic].
    •  Done: Cut it
  • I'm not sure if the original pressings commentary is worthy of a standalone paragraph?

Music and lyrics

  • I feel that including genres in this section is very necessary instead of citing it in the infobox. Consider something like: "For Your Pleasure has been categorised by critics as an art rock and glam rock record."
    •  Done
  • was composed by Ferry "practically by himself" --> was composed primarily by Ferry
    •  Done
  • "but his vocal delivery sounds as if he's proposing to her" --> "but his vocal delivery conveys an intimacy that recalls a proposal"
    • Partly done
  • The "Editions of You" lyrics reminisce on "the beauty of pining for someone long gone". --> The lyrics of "Editions of You" reflect on the experience of longing for someone who is no longer present.
    •  Done
  • The song features "1950s R&B sax invocations" --> The song features saxophone parts reminiscent of 1950s R&B.
    •  Done
  • I don't think that in "pitch-bending synthesizer solo", "synthesizer solo" should be quoted. This is a weird inconsistency given the British spellings throughout the article.
    •  Done: ~Rephrased
  • favorably --> favourably
    •  Done
  • "and remarked that "The Bogus Man" displayed" --> "and remarked that the song displayed"
    •  Done
  • Link Riff
    •  Done
  • "He called it" --> "He claimed it was"
    •  Done
  • "Roxy Music's saxophonist Andy Mackay thought the song's drum beat drew inspiration from reggae drum beat" --> "Saxophonist Andy Mackay believed the song's drum beat was inspired by reggae rhythms"
    •  Done
  • "The versions of it has been performed live" --> "The versions of it have been performed live"
    •  Done
  • "Minimalistic" is often better replaced with "minimalist" when describing style.
    •  Done
  • "in the stop-start rhythm" --> "in a stop-start rhythm".
    •  Done
  • "At the tailend, the song accumulates a "panoramic disorientation" " --> "Toward the end, the song builds into a sense of "panoramic disorientation" "
    •  Done
  • Wikilink reverb, tremolo, and studio as an instrument
    •  Done
  • "ends with voice of Judi Dench saying "You don't ask. You don't ask why"" --> "ends with the voice of Judi Dench saying, "You don't ask. You don't ask why""
    •  Done
  • "in a way to create, what Brian Eno later favourably dubbed" only refer to him as Eno (MOS:SURNAME)
    •  Done

Release and promotion

  • Atco Records --> ATCO Records
    •  Done
  • "in the UK and Atco Records and" --> "in the UK and by Atco Records and"
    •  Done
  • "The non-album single "Pyjamarama", backed with "The Pride and the Pain", was issued in advance of the album in Britain" can we replace Britain to the UK?
    •  Done
  • "peaking at number 10" --> "peaking at number ten"
    •  Done
  • "Roxy Music, promoting the album, toured UK" --> "To promote the album, Roxy Music toured the UK"
    •  Done
  • What does "to fill in on bass" mean?
    •  Done: Rephrased
  • Unlink "Pyjamarama" on the third paragraph
    •  Done
  • "Tony Palmer of The Observer, who was not a fan of their album, applauded their presentation, calling it "demonic, sinister, apocalyptic, monstrous, dazzling, flashy"." this does not have a citation.
  • I don't think the note is necessary, neither the claims are cited.
  • I'm not a fan of one- or two-sentence long paragraphs. Can we merge the last two into one paragraph?
    •  Done: Merged

Critical reception

  • This section follows a large "A said B" format. Perhaps you could use WP:RECEPTION or this article as a reference? Try to find similar things that reviewers noticed and enjoyed/disapproved of in the album. Since this format is used in other good articles, although discouraged, I can let it slide, but I would advise moving away from it.
    • I have thought about it and couldn't come up with anything merge-able. The common element I noticed is the "conflict between Ferry and Eno" mentioned in both the contemporary and retrospective sections. However, I don't think it would be good to merge them. Maybe I'll get my hands some more reviews (e.g., Mojo? Spin, Select), there will be more content for thematic grouping. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 16:10, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • I found a Mojo ranking listing For Your Pleasure but the format looks dubious; like a second-hand reprint of Mojo's rankings. —LastJabberwocky (Rrarr) 16:36, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1973, For Your Pleasure made No. 4 on UK Albums Chart and remained in the chart for 27 weeks, while reaching No. 193 in USA." --> "In 1973, For Your Pleasure reached number four the on UK Albums Chart, remaining at the chart for 27 weeks, while reaching number 193 in USA." Additionally, which USA chart did this album reach?  Done
  • "NME' Charles Shaar Murray wrote the new Roxy Music album is" --> "NME's Charles Shaar Murray described For Your Pleasure as a"
    •  Done
  • "Robert Christgau also reviewed the album" "also reviewed the album" is already clear. No need to mention it.
    • Removed
  • "saying they have a" Who's they?
    •  Done
  • In the second paragraph from Contemporary reviews, the Rolling Stone review could be moved at the top.
    •  Done
  • and saxophone solo on "Editions Of You" --> and the saxophone solo on "Editions Of You"
    •  Done
  • "In later interview Eno" --> "In a later interview, Eno"
    •  Done
  • "and lamented they did not" the album or the band?
    •  Done
  • '50s music sounds informal, try 1950s music
    •  Done
  • Specify the dates of the two Pitchfork reviews in the body
    •  Done
  • WL Stephen Thomas Erlewine  Done
  • Un-italicize AllMusic  Done
  • "creating a middle ground between glam and prog with" --> "creating a middle ground between "glam" and "prog" with" (glam rock is already linked); The "prog" side; while the "glam" part  Done
  • "noted" is neutral voice while this is a subjective opinion (MOS:SAID)  Done
  • The last three paragraphs on Retrospective reviews could be merged into one.  Done
  • Unlink art rock in NME's quote  Done
  • "Radio broadcaster Mark Radcliffe and journalist Richard Williams called For Your Pleasure their favourite album." For the average reader, this may seem uninteresting or WP:FANCRUFT Removed
  • "Bryan Ferry said the album" MOS:SURNAME  Done
  • "Bryan Ferry said the album is his personal favourite, if he had to choose a favourite, lamenting that "it's awful to think that that's his high spot" after just two years of involvement into the music industry" The hypothetical ("if he had to choose a favourite") outside quotes may suggest WP:UNDUE Removed

References

  • All sentences and claims in Background and Accolades seem to be verified. Assuming good faith on the Q source.
  • [2]c The full record sleeve art features a limousine parked on the left side from Lear, with awaiting Ferry acting as a chauffeur.
  • [2]e and glam-rock[2] record
  • [2]f additionally featuring American R&B and European avant-garde music.
  • [6]a Roxy Music recorded For Your Pleasure in February 1973, at London's AIR Studios in Oxford Circus. Bassist Rik Kenton left the band shortly before the sessions. John Porter agreed to play bass temporarily, working on the album and the subsequent tour, but turned down an offer to join permanently. On the album gatefold, he is credited as a "guest artiste".
  • [15]a Brian Eno disliked the choice for the album's cover art, feeling it was too stereotyped and pretentious.
  • [16] For Your Pleasure has been categorised by critics as an art-rock I understand how this supports being an art-rock record, but is there a better source that explicitly says that this record is art rock?
  • [18] Additionally, Eno loved the song's duality, creating ominous feeling, but touched by a relatively happy sounding riff. He claimed it was "probably the most successful track", drummer Paul Thompson favoured the song, as well. The versions of it have been performed live before its official release on For Your Pleasure.
  • [20] "The Bogus Man", an eerie song about a sexual stalker, is played within a metronome rhythm and recognised as a blueprint for trance music years before the genre's conception. It builds up into a long, minimalist beat with instrument mutating overtime within "some mysterious cycle". Eno liked the repetition saying "repetition is a form of change" None of these claims are cited in the 2012 Pitchfork review. Did you mean Pitchfork's 2019 review? Please make sure to check instances of this citation, since it is only covers a mention of the album.
 Done
  • Spotcheck is verifiable and easy to conclude thanks to quotes.

Other

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Grammar errors?

The retrospective reviews section seems to include a few mistakes. For example, the section regarding "a similar-sounding rock music" doesn't sound right. Also, the Morrissey section with "only "truly great British album"" doesn't seem to make sense either. Chayse571 (talk) 10:43, 10 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:For_Your_Pleasure