Talk:Elizabeth Koch (publisher)
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Proposed updates for January 2025
Hi there - I have a few suggestions for updating and improving the accuracy of this page. I have a WP:COI as a consultant for WhiteHatWiki, which was hired by the subject of this article. Thank you for looking these over.
1. Please create a new section called “Early life and education” and include the first paragraph from the current “Biography” section, with a few edits.
From:
Koch is the daughter of American businessman Charles Koch, the co-owner, CEO, and chairman of Koch Industries, and Liz Koch.[1] She has a brother, Chase Koch.[2] Koch grew up in Wichita, Kansas, and is a graduate of Wichita Collegiate School. She earned a B.A. in English literature from Princeton University and an M.F.A. in fiction from Syracuse University.[1]
To:
Koch is the daughter of American businessman Charles Koch, the co-owner, CEO, and chairman of Koch Industries, and Liz Koch.[1] Koch’s brother, Chase Koch, is two years her junior.[3] Koch grew up in Wichita, Kansas,[3] and attended Wichita Collegiate School.[4] She earned a B.A. in English literature from Princeton University and an M.F.A. in fiction from Syracuse University.[5]
Reason: I’m proposing a new section name to replace “Biography” in order to follow the standard Wikipedia format established for biographies of living people, as per the Style Guide.
For the sentence about her brother, I replaced the New Netherland link, which is broken, with an article from The New York Times, and added that Chase is her younger brother. For the sentence about where Koch grew up and the school she attended, I added missing citations from The New York Times and Politico.
Partly done: I updated the language differently than suggested. I don't think the content of the article is long enough to justify separate sections. 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 06:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
2. Please create a new section called “Career” after the new “Early life and education” section. Begin it with the following sentence currently in the article, proceeding until the end of the current “Biography” section:
Koch is the editor of Opium Magazine.[1]…..
Reason: Updates the article to follow the Wikipedia style guide for sections in biography of living people.
Not done: There's not enough content to be worth breaking up into sections, in my opinion.🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 06:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
3. In the new “Career” section, please add a new first sentence:
In 2004, Koch worked as a journalist for Reason magazine.[6]
Reason: Adding information about Koch’s early work as a journalist, with supporting citations and dates from Quartz magazine.
Not done: I'm not sure it's noteworthy to mention specific publications. I could, for example, bring up other publications such as Los Angeles Review of Books, but I don't think it is helpful to the article. 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 06:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
4. Please replace these two sentences now in the “Biography” section:
Koch is the editor of Opium Magazine.[1] She is the cofounder of the Literary Death Match reading series, Black Balloon Publishing, and the publisher Catapult, founded in September 2015.[7]
with this sentence as the new third sentence of the first paragraph in “Career”:
Koch was an editor at Opium Magazine,[1] and cofounded the Literary Death Match reading series[1] and Black Balloon Publishing.[8]
Reason: I updated the tense in the sentence about Literary Death Match and Black Balloon. This will keep the content evergreen. I removed Catapult from this sentence, and addressed the changes in the next request.
Partly done: I made changes for tenses. I kept Opium Magazine. I removed Black Balloon Publishing as that doesn't have reliable sources WP:RS. 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 06:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- I brought back Black Balloon Publishing. 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 04:46, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
5. Please add the following as a new second paragraph in the “Career” section:
In 2015, Koch founded Catapult, a company that published books,[9] an online magazine, and hosted a writing program.[3] Catapult’s online magazine and writing program closed in 2023.[3]
Reason: The information about Catapult is already in the article. I suggest making this a separate paragraph, since it’s no longer about her editing and writing work for other publications. I added information about what the company published, and added a citation from The New York Times.
Not done: The sources say that Catapult is primarily a publishing company. I don't think information about additional programming is helpful to the article. 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 06:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
6. Please update the first two sentences in the third paragraph of the current Biography section
from:
Koch has launched two nonprofit organizations: Unlikely Collaborators, focused on self-investigation,[10] and the Tiny Blue Dot consciousness research foundation.[11][6]
To the following as the fourth paragraph of the new “Career” section:
Koch founded two nonprofit organizations: Tiny Blue Dot Foundation, a neuroscience[6] research foundation founded in 2014,[3] and Unlikely Collaborators, a nonprofit focused on self-investigation practices derived from eastern and western philosophy founded in 2021.[12] Unlikely Collaborators is centered around a concept Koch trademarked in 2021 called the “Perception Box.” Koch has led workshops on the concept, and her organization invests in companies and nonprofits that are focused on self-perception.[3]
Reason: I corrected the name of Tiny Blue Dot Foundation (from just Tiny Blue Dot) to reflect how it's referred to in the press, such as the New York Times/Quartz, and replaced the citation from the foundation’s website to articles from Quartz and The New York Times. I also added the years both nonprofits were founded, and clarified their purpose, with supporting citations from The New York Times.
Partly done: The text is updated, but not to this specific wording. Quartz uses "Tiny Blue Dot Foundation"; New York Times uses "Tiny Blue Dot". 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 06:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
8. Please update the “spouse” line in the infobox to:
|spouse = Jason Kakoyiannis (div. 2023)
Reason: Updating the infobox to reflect information in the body of the article (second sentence of the Personal life section).
Not done: Since the information was based on a legal document that I could not verify, I took that information off and marked the married information to be "as of 2023" based on New York Times sourcing. 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 06:34, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- @PacificDepths: Could you reconsider #1 and #2? Proper structure can encourage future editors to contribute to a page, so its initial length shouldn't matter as long as there’s even partial information to begin a section. It can also help assure that future editors place information in the correct order.
- I suggested the structure change in order to comply with MOS:AT: “A title should be … consistent with those of related articles.” and MOS:HEADINGS: “Section headings should generally follow the guidance for article titles (above).” I also used the following WP:GA as related-article references for structure: [1] and [2]. Obviously these have the benefit of not only being related in topic but also being given the second highest Wikipedia rating on article quality, which affirms this is the proper structure.
- Also here is proposed rewrite of #3 for your consideration:
- "In 2004, Koch covered the trial of Martha Stewart for Reason magazine."[6]
- Why is this different from her other freelance work? Because it was noteworthy enough that it was included in a profile of Koch by a prominent publication. I was not just choosing a random publication she has written for. Adding the detail that this as the Martha Stewart trial makes it more noteworthy..
- And here’s a different and much more abbreviated take on #5 for your consideration. There is only a highly vague description (“publishing company”) of what this company she founded did. There are so many variations of publishers. Biographically speaking, the type of publisher she became in 2015 is highly relevant to understanding her. (E.g. News magazine vs. book publisher.)
- "In 2015, Koch founded Catapult, a book publisher."[3]
- This change also has the advantage of replacing what appears to be a press release with an article from the New York Times.
- Thanks for taking a look! Brucemyboy1212 (talk) 16:25, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
- Headings: sure, done.
- Martha Stewart trial: declined. I don't see it as very important.
- book publisher vs publisher: done.
- Also be advised: I may source some criticism of the subject from the NYTimes profile, Salon The Nation, in the interest of neutral point of view. — 🌊PacificDepths (talk) 23:16, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
References
- ^ a b c d e f g Maloney, Jennifer (September 10, 2015). "A Literary Koch Launches New Publishing House". The Wall Street Journal. Retrieved March 31, 2016.
- ^ "Koch, Charles (1935)". New Netherland Project. Archived from the original on December 13, 2010. Retrieved April 18, 2016.
- ^ a b c d e f g Barnes, Brooks (23 February 2023). "The Billionaire's Daughter Knows What You're Thinking". The New York Times. Retrieved 9 November 2024.
- ^ Severns, Maggie (14 December 2018). "The Next Koch Doesn't Like Politics". Politico. Retrieved 12 November 2024.
- ^ "Elizabeth Koch". Los Angeles Review of Books. Retrieved March 31, 2016.
- ^ a b c d Livni, Ephrat (December 14, 2018). "Here's why Elizabeth Koch, the daughter of a GOP megadonor, chose science over politics". Quartz. Retrieved November 14, 2020.
- ^ Swanson, Clare (February 3, 2015). "Founders of Electric Lit, Black Balloon Launch New Publishing Venture". Publishers Weekly. Retrieved March 31, 2016.
- ^ Swanson, Clare (February 3, 2015). "Founders of Electric Lit, Black Balloon Launch New Publishing Venture". Publishers Weekly. Retrieved March 31, 2016.
- ^ Swanson, Clare (February 3, 2015). "Founders of Electric Lit, Black Balloon Launch New Publishing Venture". Publishers Weekly. Retrieved March 31, 2016.
- ^ Barnes, Brooks, "The Billionaire's Daughter Knows What You Are Thinking", The New York Times, February 24, 2023
- ^ "Our Team". Tiny Blue Dot Foundation. Retrieved November 14, 2020.
- ^ Barnes, Brooks, "The Billionaire's Daughter Knows What You Are Thinking", The New York Times, February 24, 2023
Brucemyboy1212 (talk) 23:18, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
Cite source no. 9 (about court case)
UniCourt is only a raw docket aggregator. Per WP:PRIMARY and WP:RS, it isn’t considered a reliable secondary source. Please replace or supplement it with an independent source (e.g., court’s own docket, reputable news coverage, law‑review article). Thanks! IHitmanI (talk) 14:07, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- Legal filings and court cases are not allowed as references for BLP articles. DMacks (talk) 16:47, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- I have added a notice template on the section, i hope somebody will (or the main editor) will try to fix issue. Meanwhile, Thanks! IHitmanI (talk) 23:14, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- However, When I reviewed this article found out that this is heavily promotion (the editor is only focusing on person's success e.g. multiple founding) also there is no amound of noticeable NPOV. I think we should put this article on draft until somebody fixes it. IHitmanI (talk) 23:23, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
- Tagging in @Revirvlkodlaku regarding court case source about divorce and this edit. Until we have a different source, it may make the most sense to omit. 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 02:59, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
- @🌊PacificDepths, yeah, I suppose that's fair. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:00, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
- For reference: prior Help Desk discussion 🌊PacificDepthstalk|contrib 03:03, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
