Talk:David Taylor (snooker player)

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Untitled

Swapped old subst'ed infobox for new one and removed newinfobox tag RWardy 17:24, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:David Taylor (snooker player)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 16:39, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Barbalalaika (talk · contribs) 07:09, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]


Greetings and salutations! Will strive to review it by the end of the month. Barbalalaika (talk) 07:09, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for taking on the review. Let me know if you have any questions about the offline sources. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:01, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it well written?
    A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
    Comment: I did some minor copy-editing, including standardising comma placement. I opted for no commas after temporal adverbs and for the oxford comma. Feel free to challenge that choice, I'm happy as long as it's standardised. A couple more questions:
    Thanks. I have no preference as long as it's standardised. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:17, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    "After leaving school, he took up a career as a hairdresser." - You could expand that sentence a bit with a quote from the source as to why he was interested in the profession.
    Added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:17, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    "Taylor was a commentator when Steve Davis made the first televised maximum break at the 1982 Lada Classic." - can you tell me what exactly the source says? I'm thinking there may be a better way to place Taylor in the spotlight of this sentence.
    There is potential. The source has "David was part of the commentary team when Steve made the first televised 147 break during the 1982 Lada Classic. His fellow commentator was former world champion John Pulman, who was a little put out by David's 'over enthusiasm'as Steve approached the climax of his record making break. [Taylor said to the article author:] 'Yes, in excitement, the voice did tend to rise in pitch and volume, but it was a magic night.'" BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:17, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks! I edited the snippet to "Taylor was part of the commentary team when Steve Davis made the first televised maximum break at the 1982 Lada Classic, which he later described as “a magic night" -- To be honest I'm not sure why I felt this sentence needed a little more "oomph", and I admit this was just nitpicking. You can change it back (or to something else) if you want Barbalalaika (talk) 18:48, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I like that, thanks. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:50, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    "Taylor entered the property business using money from a winning bet on John Spencer to win the world championship." - is there a date by any chance?
    The source only says it was "a few years earlier" than 1987. I'll see if I can find another source; my guess is that it would be 1977. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:17, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    All right! Section 1 A will stay on hold meanwhile, that would be the last point here. Barbalalaika (talk) 18:49, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've had another look around sources and not found anything more precise, unfortunately. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:21, 4 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll do a second round of reading when I check the references to see if anything else catches my eye, but I think that's all for this point. Barbalalaika (talk) 21:22, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @BennyOnTheLoose your Manchester Evening source claims Taylor was (at the time) the youngest-ever World Champion. Even if it's not the case anymore (I learnt it from your Guiness source), can you include this information?
    I had skipped over that previously, on the basis that there had only been one other world amateur champion so this wasn't impressive. However, I checked and Taylor was also younger than any winner of the professional championship had been at the time; the youngest of them was Joe Davis in 1927, who was 324 days older. I've added it. AFAIK the youngest champion to date in the amateur championshp was 14. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:08, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Further, could you explain what "Pro celebrity snooker" was about (seems like it was a game show)? And under the game show Big Break, the source cites him as a featured guest but also twice as a producer, for the two last episodes. Is this correct? I'd include that if so. Barbalalaika (talk) 20:02, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the producer was most likely a different David Taylor - perhap this entry at IMDB which lists similar sorts of shows around the same period. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:50, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Ahh I didn't think of that, you're right Barbalalaika (talk) 07:32, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I added a few words to describe "Pro celebrity snooker". BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:21, 4 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
    A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
    Comment: I removed an instance of duplicate references. There are some dead external links improperly tagged, can you go through the forge and double-check if anything needs corrections? Barbalalaika (talk) 21:22, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I had a go at this - never seen that handy tool before. For some reason the ones marked as dead still include the original url link, did I miss something? The BBC Programme Index ones are tricky as there is now a Captcha which I think means they can't be archived. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:58, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Interesting, the tool says some original links aren't properly marked as "dead" but all of them have the proper "url-status=dead", so I'll guess it made an improper judgement. It couldn't open the BBC Programme URLs due to the captcha, which is why it flagged those, but I confirmed them. So there was nothing wrong in the end! Barbalalaika (talk) 18:36, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
    Comment: I'll check some sources and get back to you for help with some offline ones :) Barbalalaika (talk) 21:22, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @BennyOnTheLoose since I can't access many sources, I hand-picked some to review. Can you please help me with the following:
    Source 8, about Taylor missing pots
    Billiards and Snooker was published by the Billiards and Snooker Control Council but was editorially independent at this time, with Clive Everton as editor. The match report cited has "Taylor... showed only glimpses of top form and carelessly missed a number of easy pots." and "it seemed to me that many of his misses stemmed from playing too hastily." BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:50, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Source 6, especially why you show it together with the Guiness Book of Records.
    The Gouge source has "He also performed a memorable feat on the exhibition circuit when in June 1978, at Butlins in Minehead, he made three consecutive total clearances of 130, 140 and 139." The Guinness Book of Records has "David Taylor (b. 29 July 1943) made three consecutive frame clearances of 130, 140, and 139 at Minehead, Somerset, on 1 June 1978." BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:50, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Hope you don't mind me replacing the Gouge source for Hamlyn's Who's Who - it says the same thing, mentions the world record on top, and is one everyone can access through the Open Library. Barbalalaika (talk) 07:40, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Source 25, can you show where Lowe coins the term "Silver Fox"?
    The Ted Lowe book has "David Taylor, unrelated to Dennis, is known as the Silver Fox—a name I gave him in commentary." (Trying to find another source, I came across this in Donald Trelford's Snookered: "Taylor, in his rimless glasses, looks less like a fox than a pedagogue or the doctor, Chebutykin, in Chekhov’s Three Sisters. (In fact, he was a hairdresser in Manchester.)" BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:50, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The one source is fine! I just wanted to confirm that it attributed the origin of the nickname to Ted Lowe. FYI, I replaced the Birmingham Evening source (it was just referring to Taylor as "silver fox" with the Reardon & Hennessey one (a second source explaining the reasoning behind it) Barbalalaika (talk) 07:35, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Sources 38, 13, and 39 - I'm interested in their comments on Taylor (which you wrote about in the past paragraph of "Professional finals and later career")
    Virgo has been a BBC snooker commentator for many years, and was previously a professional player. The quote is discussing the 1978-79 season when he faced Taylor in a quarter-final: "Taylor, in practice, was one of the best players I’d ever seen, second perhaps only to Higgins. However, after winning the English and World Amateur titles in 1968 he hadn’t really set the professional the game alight." (The book is available on the Internet Archive). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:08, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Roger Lee was an entertainer, but also a well-known collector and exhibitor of snooker and billiards memorabilia. link link. He wrote a number of articles for Snooker Scene over the years. I can email you a copy of the article if you use wikimail. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:08, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The Reardon and Hennessey book is available on the Internet Archive. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:08, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for those. I added the ISBN of the Reardon and Hennessey book to the citation since the OCLC wasn't directing me to the archive. The Virgo source I unfortunately can't access online, it only shows libraries where I could borrow them. You're welcome to e-mail me the Roger Lee source, my user page should have the wikimail option (I admit I never used it)! Barbalalaika (talk) 08:06, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Barbalalaika (talk) 20:02, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    C. It contains no original research:
    D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
    Comment: any content that could go into a "legacy" header, by any chance? Barbalalaika (talk) 21:22, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think there is enough material out there for a legacy section. I haven't seen him cited as a particular inspiration. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:08, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
  4. Is it neutral?
    It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
  5. Is it stable?
    It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    Comment: no images to assess, point will stay neutral. All in order after the editor added an image. Barbalalaika (talk) 21:22, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
    Comment: Having images or not isn't a GA criterium, but can you think of any photos you could insert in the article (if not of the player, then maybe of a relevant place or event)? I always images they make articles more attractive, but that's not obligatory. Barbalalaika (talk) 21:22, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The twp best possibilities that I could think of were Hordern Pavilion (venue for the World Amateur championship final) and Steve Davis, but I didn't really think either were relevant enough. I saw Taylor play a couple of times at exhibitions in the early 1980s - too bad I didn't take the opportunity to grab a picture. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:28, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I assume his local youth club or the guest house in Little Bollington are unknown/have no pictures. I'll leave it to you if you want to add the Pavilion, it is rather significant since his performance there encouraged him to go professional (from what I understood?), but if you think it's forced you may leave it :) Barbalalaika (talk) 18:42, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Added venue image. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:37, 2 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    Comment: The article is of good quality as it is and I won't have a problem passing it once all comments are discussed and/or adressed. Barbalalaika (talk) 21:22, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    All comments have been adressed appropriately and I'm happy to give this article the GA status. Congratulations, @BennyOnTheLoose! Many of my points were minor, but I felt you were very open to feedback, so I deemed it ok to mention them. It was fun collaborating with you! Barbalalaika (talk) 06:51, 5 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:David_Taylor_(snooker_player)