The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Spartaz ^Humbug! 20:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

BoND (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Sources exist that prove this business entity is in existence in New York, United States. Existence is not notability. Based on my evaluation of WP:NCORP, the sources present do not satisfy WP:ORGDEPTH.

Shortly after I PROD the article, someone objected it and dropped a NY Times aticle, as an external link. The Hunt is a column in which NY Times is acting in the capacity of a local paper covering house search in NY and the newly added article fails to provide any coverage of BoND as a business. per WP:INHERITORG, coverage on the proprietors do not permeate into their company even if they are individually notable for reasons other than the company in question. Graywalls (talk) 18:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and New York. Graywalls (talk) 18:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment searches for "BoND" generate a thousands of extraneous hits for "bond". I suggest searching using "Noam Dvir" +"Daniel Rauchwerger", the two partners. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 19:06, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All the coverage in the world about one of them individually, or about the pair have very little weight to establish notability for the legal entity; unless significant, in depth, independent coverage and analysis of them with relation to the company they've established, or about the company itself can be found. One has to be broadly circulated. Their house hunting endeavor in their personal life covered in The Hunt column of the New York Times acting in their agency as a local paper don't have any notability weight. The only thing that article did is to be a reliable source that the two men were correspondents for the Haaretz paper at one point. So, it is reliable source to verify that, but not to establish a grain of notability for their company. Graywalls (talk) 19:32, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

BoND is a two-man design firm. It could just have easily been named "Noam Dvir and Daniel Rauchwerger" - we have these sorts of BLPs that cover two closely-connected people together. I think we're wrong to focus on the "legal entity" alone. A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 21:04, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 19:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• I have notified Peoplelikeyoulikeme, the article's creator --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 19:17, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Some more sources I found online; I'm sure there are more out there; these 2 men are prominent:

  General:

  • Baird-Remba, Rebecca (2 February 2021). "How Two Israeli Newspaper Reporters Started Their Own Architecture Firm". Commercial Observer. Retrieved 10 July 2023.

  Reviews of their work:

  • Reginato, Noni (20 April 2023). "This tranquil New York loft was designed around a striking art collection". Vogue. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • Howarth, Dan (8 April 2023). "BoND uses pink scaffolding at New York "embassy" for fashion brand PatBo". Dezeen. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • Niland, Josh (16 December 2021). "BoND's new Company Gallery space offers a unique showcase for Queer artists and for themselves". Archinect. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • De Conti, Massimo. "Due architetti e un bilocale a New York trasformato nella casa dei sogni". Corriere della Sera. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • Yerebakan, Osman Can (5 January 2022). "BoND Designs Company Gallery's New Lower East Side Location". Interior Design. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • Goodman, Wendy (15 March 2021). "How This 1856 Chelsea Parlor-Floor Apartment Got Its Glamour Back". Curbed. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • "Two Architects Bring the Glamour back to their 1856 Chelsea Apartment". Yellowtrace. 3 August 2021. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • Howarth, Dan (28 April 2018). "BoND turns dark, divided Chelsea apartment into light-filled home". Dezeen. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • Gibson, Eleanor (26 July 2020). "New York hair salon Hawthorne Studio is designed for social distancing". Dezeen. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • Quigley, Annie (22 May 2023). "Beneath the Surface: A Railroad Apartment in Manhattan with a Surprising Amount of Storage". The Organized Home. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
  • Quigley, Annie (21 October 2019). "Urban Oasis: A Stone Orchard House in Tel Aviv, Redone by Two Architects". Remodelista. Retrieved 10 July 2023.

  --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 21:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  By the way, here's the link to that New York Times article mentioned above:

  • Cohen, Joyce (29 June 2017). "For Building Designers, a Customized Apartment". The New York Times. Retrieved 10 July 2023.

  Personally, I think it's more relevant than Graywalls says but I suggest others take a look and decide for themselves.

  --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 21:11, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 21:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  The said reference was already present as a source in the article when I stumbled upon it and I don't see the justification why a duplicate was copied into "further reading". This is in The Hunt column section of the NYT which you can see at https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-hunt which solicits people to contact them about their recent home purchase. The select few chosen gets in depth coverage about their home purchase. In the case of these two men, it was about their personal purchase. The article does not touch about the business they own. Any amount of notability the pair accumulated do not pass through to their business. This is made clear by inherited notability guideline which says ownership by notable people do not bestow notability into the business. Graywalls (talk) 21:57, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• See also WP:ARCHITECT item 3:
• ” The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series)”

—A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 22:11, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The guideline you're quoting is not relevant here, because this article is about their company. Similarly, bands or band members qualify through WP:NBAND, architects through WP:ARCHITECT. Architectural firms, recording companies are evaluated through WP:NCORP. Graywalls (talk) 22:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A few more. Some links are to Google translations into English. Starting to look sorta famous in interior design circles:

• Beath, Joe; Price, Elizabeth (19 October 2021). "Chelsea Apartment". Never Too Small: Reimagining Small Space Living. Smith Street Books. pp. 113–119. ISBN 9781922754929. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Zamora, Francesc (16 February 2021). 150 of the Best Apartment Ideas. Harper Collins. ISBN 9780063018884. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Johnston, Georgina (29 January 2021). "New York's socially distanced hair salon solution". World Architecture News. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Baird-Remba, Rebecca (1 December 2020). "Swiss Energy Company Axpo Gets Minimalist Midtown Office". Commercial Observer. Retrieved 10 July 2023.
• "A Sense of Airiness Defines PatBO's New York Showroom, and Other News". Surface. 11 April 2023. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Gonzalez, Maria Francisca (1 December 2020). "Axpo Holding AG US Headquarters / BoND". ArchDaily. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Gonzalez, Maria Francisca (7 December 2020). "Hair Salon in New York / BoND". ArchDaily. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Bajić, Lorena Majcen (18 May 2023). "Ostavlja bez daha: Evo kako je Liza Tedeschi dizajnirala milijunašev stan u New Yorku". ("It leaves you breathless: Here's how Liza Tedeschi designed a millionaire's apartment in New York"). tportal.hr. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Queiroz, Luiza (3 August 2020). "Este salão de beleza em Nova York foi desenhado para manter o distanciamento social". ("This beauty salon in New York was designed to maintain social distancing"). globo.com (Brazil). Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Talawadekar, Vaishnavi Nayel (27 October 2022). "Step Inside This 470-Square-Foot Cozy Chelsea Studio: BoND infused the 1920s NYC rental with queer cheer". Architectural Digest. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Mahmud, Nurul Husna (31 July 2020). "Tata rias jarak selamat". ("Safe distance cosmetology"). Harian Metro (Malaysia). Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Gonzalez, Maria Francisca (20 December 2018). "Chelsea Apartment / BoND". ArchDaily. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Hunt, Grace Beuley (27 January 2022). "The Design Couple Shaping New Visions Of Home—For All". Luxe Interiors + Design Magazine. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• "At architects". Label Magazine (Poland). 27 May 2021. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Mather, Lindsey (6 September 2017). "You Won't Believe This 550-Square-Foot Apartment Remodel Was Done on the Cheap". Vogue. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Reggev, Kate (21 June 2018). "Vivid Accent Colors Turn This Tiny Abode Into a Dreamy Oasis". Dwell. Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Testoni, Paola (10 July 2018). "Buio e Frammentato, questo Appartamento di West Chelsea diventa un Open Space Luminoso". ("Dark and Fragmented, this West Chelsea Apartment becomes a Bright Open Space"). Elle Decor (Italy). Retrieved 11 July 2023.
• Salerno, Rita (28 December 2018). "Best of 2018: 10 Modi di Intendere la Parola Restyling". ("Best of 2018: 10 Ways to Understand the Word Restyling: The top ten most viewed renovation projects in 2018"). Elle Decor (Italy). Retrieved 11 July 2023.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 02:23, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Would you name the two or three out of those that you would suggest for the purpose of establishing business notability so other editors are not burdened with having to go through every single one of them? This is often a significant hardship in deletion discussion in people, product and company articles. Those authored by the same journalist, or from same publication counts as one. Those based on interviews with company personnel or press releases do not pass. WP:ORGIND Graywalls (talk) 03:19, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Graywalls, I appreciate your enthusiasm for keeping Wikipedia clear of unsourced articles. However, I think you're overly focused on establishing notability as a business independent of the married couple that are the business: Noam Dvir and Daniel Rauchwerger. There's just two people. BoND is short for "Bureau of Noam & Daniel"

There are no articles that are only about "BoND", a company.

Should we just rename the article "Noam Dvir and Daniel Rauchwerger", turning it into a people article? They've gotten coverage in multiple countries. Also, in their pre-BoND period, they did some noteworthy stuff at Harvard.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 03:41, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We can certainly chronicle their journey into forming the company in the background or history section; but those do not contribute towards notability. This article is about their architectural firm, a company. The proprietors chose to play off their names but coverage about them as individuals do not credit towards the business. In Wikipedia, a tuning shop owned by a renowned former race car driver can not piggy back notability off coverage that is not significant about the shop. It does not matter what how the business is named. If the coverage is not for the business, it does not count towards notability. We need CORPDEPTH and AUD passing coverage on the BoND, not about their proprietors outside of the article subject business. Graywalls (talk) 05:13, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:22, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep based on the above discussion. Oaktree b (talk) 01:25, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The standard to be met here is NCORP so standard notability is irrelevant. Please can we refocus on that and identify the sources that meet the standard.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 07:07, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I've just randomly selected three articles from the above (picked the clearly international ones) that don't pass WP:NCORP, but there's also a lot of press - what are the best WP:THREE articles please? SportingFlyer T·C 22:35, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.