dictator?

Why isn't he labeled as a dictator, despite multiple sources refering to him as such and him conforming to basically every single elements of a dicator? Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 16:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See [1] and other previous discussions.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I guess this will go to a RfC when I'll have the time. Or it would be pretty easy to say that there never was a "true" dictator with "absolute" powers. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 11:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Its ridiculous to call him as a dictator. First because its not his official post, and second because its BIASED concept. An encyclopedia of respect should not embrace BIASED opinions. ROK president is accused to stage a coup but he isnt labelled as dictator. 2804:7F1:E241:F635:88FF:C55F:78DA:B347 (talk) 03:55, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He has been impeached, that is one of the hallmarks of not being one, there is outside oversight of your action. Slatersteven (talk) 11:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This person is right. It makes no sense unless you're looking at this from a biased american perspective to call him a dictator. Especially when not calling america's leaders and it's allies leaders like south korea the same. We might as well go ahead and label hamas, hezbollah and the vietcong a terrorist organization on those wiki pages while we're at it (sarcasm) oh and how about blm too. since we're gonna be clowns and call kim a dictator. This was a hasty and biased decision on the part of a few pro-America anti-communist wikipedia users with a clear political agenda Yousername69 (talk) 19:23, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

NK News, used in the original argument, was partially blocked in South Korea because some reports originated from North Korea.[1] Given the overwhelming number of sources calling him a dictator and the use of the term on similar leaders pages that also have sources disputing their control on power, such as Kim Il Sung who is on the front page of the wiki article dictator, I believe it should be included. ZebulonMorn (talk)

NK News is not North Korean!--Jack Upland (talk) 00:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ZebulonMorn: It's best practice to sign your comments with your username. Most users have links to their user page and their user talk page. It's possible to customize your signature, but please at least include your username. —Eyer (he/him) If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message. 00:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The idea that South Korea censored one of the sources is not compelling to me in terms of the content question.
I recommend where we can to avoid labels like this and speak in more concrete terms. We already address concentration of power more concretely elsewhere in the introduction, so to add a less specific additional label is not something I favor. JArthur1984 (talk) 00:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On his father's and granfather's intro, they both have the word "dictatorship". If we change the line "the same cult of personality as his father and grandfather." to "the same personalist dictatorship as his father and grandfather." then I would agree. ZebulonMorn (talk) 00:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both a label that precisely pin points his rule of power and concrete descriptions can and should be used. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 11:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's considered unreliable by the Government of South Korea, so I don't think it's reliable enough to overshadow the deluge of reports referencing Kim as a dictator. ZebulonMorn (talk) ZebulonMorn (talk) 00:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Specialist sources like NK News that have actually considered the topic are more reliable than sources that just slap on labels.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:43, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You have one questionably reliable source to support your argument. An argument that's disputed by nearly every appropriate source. We definitely need far more reliable evidence fist to remove "dictator" ZebulonMorn (talk) 01:49, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You could at least make it less repetitive: "Kim Jong Un is a North Korean politician and dictator who has been supreme leader of North Korea since December 2011".--Jack Upland (talk) 01:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's fair enough ZebulonMorn (talk) 07:13, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There isn't any consensus here to remove Supreme leader. Supreme Leader is a position in the North Korean and dictator is the role played by him. See Supreme Leader of Iran, Supreme Leader of Afghanistan and Ali Khamenei. Furthermore, he is the third Supreme Leader of NK. Theofunny (talk) 11:58, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you to all editors that made the addition stick. I was very surprised to see how many dictators were not even remotelly refered as such on the opening paragraphs in Wikipedia.
Generally, I have no issue in either having dictator as a label or having a formulation like "ruling xxxstate in a dictatorship since xxx". I do not believe that "dictator" has the same type of vague moral tone that MOS:CRIMINAL strives to avoid. But I could be in the wrong and "politician" as a general term plus a specificity of the dictatorship rule can also work, as long as it is in the opening paragraph. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 11:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The most egregious case of Vladimir Putin not being referred to as such still exists. Theofunny (talk) 12:30, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would need more work, possibly a different phrasing, since sources will not be so unanimous. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 12:45, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Kim, Young-jin (6 January 2014). "US-based website on NK blocked". Korea Times. Archived from the original on 1 February 2014. Retrieved 21 January 2014.

Image of Kim

you must update the image of Kim Jong Un, from 2019 into 2024 Gorabels147 (talk) 08:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a comment next to the image that you've ignored twice now asking you to get consensus before changing it. Please do not alter the image without consensus. — Czello (music) 08:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have changed the title of the portrait from "official portrait". This is not an official portrait. We do not have access to an official portrait. Government photos in North Korea are covered by copyright. This image is available because it was produced by the Russian government.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:05, 12 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus on "dictator"?

Hi, @Czello! I agree that we should come to a formal consensus before things escalate further. I, along with @GreatLeader1945, believe that the usage of "dictator" goes against WP:NPOV. I suggest checking here for the previous discussion, and getting more people to weigh in on this decision - OpalYosutebito (talk) 20:53, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

He is an absolute monarch, just like his father and grandfather before him. Mztourist (talk) 05:31, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Right. I think the one of the reasons why people like Hitler and Pol Pot are considered dictators (contributions to society aside) and not Kim Jong Un is because they didn't inherit their positions (Jong Un is the grandson of the founder of the DPRK, Il Sung) - OpalYosutebito (talk) 16:07, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Allikas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kim_Jong-un
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