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• Archives: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, January-July 2009

I saw that a month back you began taking red linked names (actors, voice actors, etc.) and began turning them into redirects for whatever particular television series you found that they were a part of. This is not helpful. I went to look up the actress Rin Asuka and found that you had made a redirect to List of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni characters because she was in that show. It is better to have red links than redirects that are not helpful.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:10, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A redirect is better than nothing because it gives some information about the person. If I only know about one series they have been in then I direct to that series. If someone notices that someone has worked for more than one thing then with 2 notable things someone has participated in I think that is enough grounds to create an article about the person. I didn't have the time to do any googling for Rin Asuka to find out if she had done anything else. Since you were looking for her, do you know of any other things she has acted in which have articles here? I am definitely interested in upgrading this from a redirect into a full article about the actress. I think this is better than just deleting it. If you would tell me how you found out about her and wanted to look for her then we could use that to create an article.

If there is not actually an article about a person then people should not make their name into a link. Redirecting the person's name to where they are mentioned on Wikipedia (a notable role) is good, but linking to their name when there's no article (creating a red link) and just leaving it would not be good. Shouldn't the dispute be with the person who made it into a link without checking if something was there first? Anyway, I'll take the initiative to do a little research about her to create an article. When people bring this to attention it is good because it encourages article creation. I would like to take similar steps with other actresses. The redirects are basically a starting point for an article, something I would link to once the article is fully realized. Tyciol (talk) 03:17, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are not aware what the purpose of the red link is. That is why I linked you to WP:Red link, a policy/guideline/whatever on Wikipedia. Having these actors who could possibly get into more notable roles (as I believe Rin Asuka has done, I just need to see if it is the same Rin Asuka) have their articles as red links is more useful than having them as redirects to articles that have absolutely nothing about them other than one role they portrayed. That is why these redirects you ahve created are useless to the project. At least users can see where the red link goes and comes from using Special:Whatlinkshere rather than have one page that is not about them define them.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay I started off Rin Asuka. I can't find any information on whether or not she has done anything since the 2 Higurashi movie adaptations. I found listing of some previous work on IMDB but none of them have articles. Some other films are listed on this asian wiki but I couldn't post a link to that (must be a banned site) so I fact-tagged those until they can be confirmed. What work do you think she's done since then? It's possible that IMDB hasn't been updated yet, if we could find some news articles maybe? Anyway, I wouldn't call the redirects 'useless' to the project, but I can see your point about how a red link can be more useful due to the 'what links here' feature. I will consider this in the future and see if any other articles also link to the red link first, that way if more than one does I will try to create the article. It is just that a lot of people only get a single role so in cases like that (not saying Rin Asuka is) if someone is interested in the significance of the name they'd be able to find information. A lot of people's names aren't red links, and in those cases (especially fictional characters) it makes sense to redirect to where they're described right? Tyciol (talk) 03:55, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you looked at the Japanese Wikipedia pages for these actors, it will be a lot easier to start off their articles. Rin Asuka is here. There are many more roles listed there.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:59, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have to leave that up to those who can read Kanji, I'm still only literate in English at the moment :( Pretty much have to rely on the bilinguals. Tyciol (talk) 04:04, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's still a way to get more information. For example, I've found her birthdate, place of birth, and other roles she's been in. IMDB is a sucky way to get information on Japanese only actors.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:06, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah true, IMDB is mainly just a start (and an English site I can understand and something that can be listed as an external link). I'm glad you were able to find some info from the Japanese wikipedia article on her. Being able to consult that would be useful for adapting things into English Wikipedia. It's hard to enter them though since the articles are in Kanji. Do you think they may have redirected their Romanized/Romaji names to the kanji for retrieving stuff like birth dates? Even then, I am not sure if I'm allowed to list sites in Japanese as a source. I have seen that on some articles but usually people post a translation if possible. Also, for discussing her we can probably do it on the talk page now (thanks for expanding it). Tyciol (talk) 04:13, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they usually do not use Romanized names. And you can always rely on Google's translation tool to kinda understand what the pages say. Anyway, in the future, redirects bad red links good.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tyciol, please have a look at Wikipedia:One sentence does not an article make. In this case, these redirects are even worse than a single-sentence article, since they can't provide any information on the subject, and the redirects may lead people to believe that they were originally articles that were later merged. These redirects are more harmful than redlinks would be (and please change your attitude towards redlinks; they should not be discouraged except for very specific circumstances). Redlinks encourage article creation, while bluelinks (especially where they are merely redirects) discourage people from taking the time to research a subject and contribute to its article here (or to expand it past a redirect). 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 18:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I fully understand the logic of this. Redirects aren't sentences, of course not. Rather, they're code. Code which I use to direct people to an article which already mentions a subject. In the majority of cases (like an obscure actor) someone will find that person's name listed in the cast. They will find out what role the person played, sources of information about the movie (it's popularity, region). These are launching grounds on locating information about a person. Since the articles redirected to are longer than a sentence, I do think that it is more beneficial than a single sentence. Other people have already provided information: they've explained why the name is notable at all (establishing notability is one of the major hurdles of starting an article about a person, redirecting to something notable is a good introduction to this).

I don't quite see how blue links or redirects discourage contribution or expansion. If someone has a mind to create or expand something they will. Whenever redirected there is always the button at the top to click to go to the source without redirecting and to change it, if someone wants to create an article. This is a basic skill and something it would be valuable for editors to figure out how to do. Frequently, I expand other people's redirects (if not into a full article, sometimes into a disambig) and even expand my own redirects. I think if someone finds a name they think is important just redirected they will think "hey, this person deserves an article, how dare they not give them their own!" and it will push them to do research on the person and help create a great article in the future. I think people are apprehensive about starting off articles ("what should this article look like? Will I get in trouble for starting it" and more apt to create one that was initiated as a redirect. I think I can understand both perspectives here... basically whether or not blue/red encourages/discourages may depend on the sort of way an editor thinks about topics. Tyciol (talk) 05:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't referring so much to the "one sentence" aspect as I was the blue link aspect. I'm perfectly aware redirects aren't sentences. I have to disagree with your opinion that redirects don't discourage further contributions, as well. If a visitor with some knowledge of a given voice actor visits Wikipedia and sees that voice actor's name as a link and then clicks it, only to be redirected to a page on a tangientially related topic (and, oftentimes, to a specific section of that page), they probably aren't going to understand that they were redirected, much less be able to figure out how to get back to the redirect page, or that they can replace the stub article with a redirect once they do get there. Unfortunately, it's also not likely that they'll know or be able to figure out where to go to get help with it. In short, having redirects doesn't discourage contributions so much as present technical hurdles to potential contributors. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 06:03, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Tyciol. You have new messages at WacoJacko's talk page.
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13:39, 18 July 2009

I answered your post on my talk page! Lyrical Israfel (talk) 02:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]