Rendanggate or rendangate?

The source article (#84) uses rendangate in its title, but I think you'd generally use -ggate. Which spelling should be used in the article? Adrey (talk) 18:02, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Curry?

I don't understand why the article implies a "curry" must make use of "curry powder". 86.139.215.130 17:19, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't. It says: "rendang is nothing like a curry and does not contain curry powder" (Caniago 22:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]
How does that make it not imply that curry must use curry powder? The article appears to offer the fact that it does not use curry powder as evidence it's not a curry. Whereas in actual fact I would be very surprised if it used curry powder if it was an authentically traditional recipe, curry or not. 81.154.143.216 01:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How does it imply curries must use curry powder? If I said "elephants are nothing like birds and do not have wheels", you cannot infer anything about the relationship between birds and wheels - the two parts of the sentence are completely unrelated. (Caniago 02:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Black pepper or chilis?

Years ago I read somewhere that a real Sumatran Rendang contained no chilis, only (black) pepper. I've recently done some searching and found no indication of this, though I do have at least one recipe (in Malay) that stipulates only black pepper. Can anybody here shed light on this? Groogle (talk) 07:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In Malaysia rendang recipes are often (usually?) corrupted by Indian and Chinese influences, so anything is possible over there. "Authentic" rendang, the type you will find cooked in Minangkabau villages in Sumatra, according to the Indonesian cooking author Sri Owen and my own personal experience, revolves around the ingredients listed in this article - ginger, galangal, turmeric leaf, lemon grass and chillies. Pepper at times has been a commodity grown in the Minang highlands, but to my knowledge isn't a key ingredient in their cooking. I looked up my collection of academic papers covering Minangkabau society, and I found one comment that in certain regions of West Sumatra in the present day, in addition to the spices listed above, cloves, cinnamon, nutmeg, coriander and white pepper are used in rendang. (Caniago (talk) 14:15, 29 January 2008 (UTC))[reply]

This doesn't fit the facts very well. Neither Chinese nor Indian influences would explain the use of a spice typical of Sumatra, one that they don't use themselves in any great quantity. So what did the recipes look like before the arrival of chilis? Groogle (talk) 08:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So what are the facts? You have a recipe in the Malay language. You haven't stated if it is from Indonesia, Malaysia or somewhere else, and what period of time it is from. The Indian and Chinese influences are relevant to how rendang is prepared in Malaysia in the present day. As for what food in Sumatra, and specifically rendang, was like before the arrival of chillis I expect there is very little, if any, remaining evidence available. William Marsden circa 1780 mentions that Sumatrans prefer chillis to pepper in their cooking. He says that pepper is the chief produce and staple commodity of the island, but "never mixed by the natives in their food". Furthermore, "They esteem it heating to the blood, and ascribe a contrary effect to the cayenne". You seem to be assuming for some reason that because pepper was grown in Sumatra it was used as part of the local cuisine at some time. (Caniago (talk) 16:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Citations

Several vague citations. I removed one duplicate pointing to a bibliography rather than the text itself. There are two online references to Hikayat Amir Hamzah which seem to be different versions of the same c16th text. They are in Malay which I do not know. Would be great to work out if both are needed, get specifics of where in the text to look exactly, and, in an ideal world, get an English language translation. (Online book format resists a rough approximation via translate.google.com.)

Try1else (talk) 08:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)Try1else[reply]

  • Checked, it is mentioned in the Hikayat Amir Hamzah. I've rearranged the words into "history" section, emphasizing on the early claims. Also removed the duplicates. English translation, not yet. How should I do that, as notes in the references?--Rochelimit (talk) 12:36, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Origin

There's a little argument going on about whether the origin of this dish is Malaysia or Indonesia. Three outcomes possible (it's not a problem to say "the origin of which is being debated between Malaysia and Indonesia") but what must not be done is to change anything without providing sources. If sources exist for both claims, then be it so (see above). Kind regards, Grueslayer 12:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is the most complete perspective with citations that I found about the Rendang topic, what is your opinion?
In Malay language, the word 'rendang' may carries several meanings; 1. to fry in general 2. to cook something with coconut oil until it dries out 3. to fry without oil 4. a specific dish made of different types of meat and cooked with spices and coconut milk until it dries out 5. 'rendang' with the 'e' pronounced as close-mid front unrounded vowel (/e/); 'exuberant' (for plants); example: 'plants with exuberant foliage'.⁽¹⁾
The history of rendang traces back to the era of 𝐌𝐞𝐥𝐚𝐤𝐚 𝐒𝐮𝐥𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞 in the 15th century,⁽²⁾ when its capital was a regional centre of maritime spice trade, attracting traders from east and west. It was from this melting port of cultures, that the sophisticated Malay culinary tradition, including in meat processing techniques, were developed. Modern Rendang shows a fusion of Malay, Indian, and Portuguese culinary traditions, where it incorporates the use of coconut milk, dry spices, and chillies.⁽³⁾⁽⁴⁾
The method of cooking called 'rendang' (to fry) have been mentioned in several Classical Malay literary texts associated with Melaka Sultanate, particularly 𝑆𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑢𝑠 𝑆𝑎𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛 (14th century). The first mention of the word 'rendang' as a specific dish can be found in the 𝐻𝑖𝑘𝑎𝑦𝑎𝑡 𝐴𝑚𝑖𝑟 𝐻𝑎𝑚𝑧𝑎ℎ (1500s) which recorded a certain 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑘𝑎𝑚𝑏𝑖𝑛𝑔 (goat meat rendang).⁽²⁾ In 𝐻𝑖𝑘𝑎𝑦𝑎𝑡 𝐻𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑇𝑢𝑎ℎ (1700s), the term 'rendang' was used as a catch-all phrase for meat dishes that are fried or stewed apart from curries (𝑔𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑖).⁽⁵⁾ A specific 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑖𝑠 (rendang made of a type of saltwater clams) is mentioned in Perak chronicle, 𝑀𝑖𝑠𝑎 𝑀𝑒𝑙𝑎𝑦𝑢 (1780s).⁽⁶⁾
In foreign records, the term 'rindang' appeared in the Dutch-Malay dictionary (1623) referring to a method of frying in clarified butter or oil,⁽⁷⁾ while in 1701, the term 'randang' was registered in the first ever English-Malay dictionary, meaning to 'to fry'.⁽⁸⁾ In A Dictionary of the Malay Language (1894), it is stated that a dry curry is termed 'rendang', while a wet curry is called 𝑔𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑖 by the Malays.⁽⁹⁾ Rendang is also defined as 'to fry with oil and spices'.⁽¹⁰⁾
Rendang is also recorded in the 𝑆𝑎𝑙𝑎𝑠𝑖𝑙𝑎ℎ 𝑀𝑒𝑙𝑎𝑦𝑢 𝑑𝑎𝑛 𝐵𝑢𝑔𝑖𝑠 (1865), where the Yang Di-Pertuan Muda of Johor served religious leaders 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑝𝑒𝑑𝑎𝑠 (spicy rendang) and 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑦𝑎𝑚 (chicken rendang) following a religious ceremony in 1738.⁽¹¹⁾ In A Royal Malay Banquet Menu extracted from Perak and the Malays: "Sarong" and "Kris" (1878), the Maharajah of Johor hosted a banquet where a plethora of Malay dishes were presented including 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑖𝑛𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑔 (minced meat rendang) and 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑔𝑖𝑟𝑖 (a type of fish rendang).⁽¹²⁾
Today, there are hundreds of rendang variants which vary depending on the region and ingredients, with new variations continue to be created. In 2009, Rendang was designated as one of Malaysia's national heritages by the Jabatan Warisan Negara (JWN).
Credit: Sandii Kama and Malay World
https://www.facebook.com/groups/796705698873524/permalink/830956125448481/
𝐑𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐬
⁽¹⁾ Kamus Dewan - rendang
⁽²⁾ A Samad Ahmad, p. 10
⁽³⁾ Boileau JP (2011), p. 228
⁽⁴⁾ Jackson, Annabel (2020), p. 70
⁽⁵⁾ Kassim Ahmad (1975), p. 507
⁽⁶⁾ Raja Chulan bin Hamid (1962), p. 177
⁽⁷⁾ Wiltens, Caspar., Danckaerts, Sebastiaan., Heurnius, Justus., Ruyl, A. C.., Hasel, Jan van. (1650), p. 6
⁽⁸⁾ Bowrey, Thomas (1701), Section 9
⁽⁹⁾  Clifford, Hugh Charles., Swettenham, Frank Athelstane (1894), p. 504
⁽¹⁰⁾ Clifford, Hugh Charles., Swettenham, Frank Athelstane (1894), p. 499
⁽¹¹⁾ Raja Ali Haji (1984), p. 258
⁽¹²⁾ McNair, John Frederick Adolphus (1878), p.211
𝐁𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐢𝐨𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐡𝐲
Ahmad AS (1987), Hikayat Amir Hamzah [Amir Hamzah’s chronicle]. Kuala Lumpur: Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka, Kementerian Pelajaran Malaysia
Boileau JP. (2011), Portuguese in Asia. In: Albala K, editor. Food cultures of the world encyclopedia (3rd volume of four volume). Oxford: The Greenwood Press
Bowrey, Thomas (1701). A Dictionary, English and Malayo, Malayo and English. United Kingdom: Sam. Bridge, 1701. https://books.google.com.my/books/about/A_Dictionary_English_and_Malayo_Malayo_a.html?id=qpheAAAAcAAJ&redir_esc=y
Clifford, Hugh Charles., Swettenham, Frank Athelstane (1894), A Dictionary of the Malay Language. Malaysia: authors at the Government's printing Office
Jackson, Annabel (2020) The Making of Macau's Fusion Cuisine: From Family Table to World Stage. Hong Kong: Hong Kong University Press
Kassim Ahmad (ed.) (1975),  Hikayat Hang Tuah,  Kuala Lumpur: Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka.
Kamus Dewan (4th edition) - Pusat Rujukan Persuratan Melayu. https://prpm.dbp.gov.my/Cari1?keyword=rendang&d=41812&#1
McNair, John Frederick Adolphus (1878) Perak and the Malays: "sārong" and "krīs.". United Kingdom: Tinsley Brothers.
Raja Ali Haji (1984) Salasilah Melayu dan Bugis,  ed. Mohd. Yusof Md. Nor,  Kuala Lumpur: Fajar Bakti
Raja Chulan bin Hamid (1962), Misa Melayu,  ed. R.O. Winstedt,  Kuala Lumpur: Pustaka Antara.
Wiltens, Caspar., Danckaerts, Sebastiaan., Heurnius, Justus., Ruyl, A. C.., Hasel, Jan van. (1650) Vocabularium, ofte Woorden-Boeck: nae ordre van den Alphabeth in't Duytsch en Maleys. Netherlands: ghedruckt door ordre van de E.E. heeren bewinthehebberen der Geoctroyeerde Oost-Indische Compagnie
Note: Some try to argue that Rendang in Hikayat Amir Hamzah is grilled or roasted goat meat, but this is invalid because in the manuscript roasted goat meat is called Kambing bakar. Audit2020 (talk) 14:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php/?story_fbid=1024932039025929&id=100045274280174
Infographic Audit2020 (talk) 14:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi All, I'm inviting other editors to comment on this NPOV edit by @MrCattttt to gain more opinion in order to achieve consensus. Thanks in advance! Audit2020 (talk) 16:09, 5 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rendang is originally made by Minangkabau people which are from Indonesia, but they went to Malaysia, Singapore, and other SEA country. But rendang is originally from Indonesia Mrasysyaani (talk) 02:46, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The mention of “rendang” “randang” “rindang” in Hikayat Amir Hamzah is often cited as early evidence of the dish’s existence. However, it’s important to question whether the word “rendang” at the time referred to the dish we know today, or a broader cooking technique. Back then, rendang may have had a more general meaning and didn’t necessarily refer to the specific dish we recognize now. The text also mentions that the Kristang people (descendants of the Portuguese in Malacca) adopted cooking techniques such as bafado (cooking meat until it turns black), which could (maybe?) be related to rendang. However, it should be noted that the rendang we know today, made with coconut milk and typical Sumatran spices, likely developed from Minangkabau culinary traditions, rather than being solely influenced by the Portuguese. Bafado is closer to a dry frying technique, while rendang involves slow cooking in coconut milk with spices.

Furthermore, in many historical texts and cultural traditions, including in Negeri Sembilan, rendang has long been recognized as a traditional Minangkabau dish. Sayurasem (talk) 11:42, 3 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Grueslayer@Audit2020@Sayurasem Hi there, I have included both theories from both sides. Both are from verifiable and highly credible sources ie from Fadly Rahman, Khir Johari, Gusti Asnan, etc. MrCattttt (talk) 21:04, 3 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Austronesier the method of rendang has been traced since the 16th century according to Fadly Rahman, Khir Johari, and Tom G. Hoogervorst, these are a high credible person. Remember wikipedia’s NPOV? MrCattttt (talk) 21:21, 3 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot for your WP:NPOV editing effort @MrCattttt. I saw @Austronesier reverted @MrCattttt substantial edit and mentioned for a discussion.
@Austronesier I looking forward to read your opinion (which parts of the @MrCattttt edit that you disagree / agree) and participation in this discussion. Audit2020 (talk) 20:15, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Sayurasem your arguments are baseless, the mentioned of Hikayat Amir Hamzah is already in the history section for years, it’s an accepted facts by both theorists from West Sumatra and Fadly Rahman. Read in the article “One of the earliest written records of rendang is from the Malaccan Malay manuscript of Hikayat Amir Hamzah, which date back to the 1550s”. What I do is upgrading them using proper documentation by Fadly Rahman and Dodi Mawardi!
Source: Rahman, Fadly (2020), "Tracing the origins of rendang and its development", Journal of Ethnic Foods
Do not perform any original research, where whatever you claimed is not supported by any reliable sources or person. MrCattttt (talk) 22:34, 5 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Crispy" Chicken Rendang

I understand there's been a bit of a controversy lately in Malaysia because a British reality-show cooking competition featured a judge criticizing a contestant's chicken rendang as not being "crispy" and thus eliminating the contestant from the competition (see this BBC story). Although this may be mostly a reaction to ignorance about Malaysian culture being displayed by media in another country, it may have something interesting to say about the significance of rendang to Malaysians- or it may just be chicken rendang's 15 minutes of fame and be forgotten next month. I thought I'd mention it here, anyway. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:47, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Bold items in list

I find the bold entries in "Variations" distracting. Wouldn't italics be better here? –Austronesier (talk) 19:31, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is rendang is a stew?

I don't know what type of food is rendang? It is maybe a stew. 2001:448A:11A3:1039:892C:146:AE41:EA1D (talk) 13:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is, but not in the way that most places outside of Indonesia. In most Western stews, there is animal protein in a thick soup containing other vegetables, usually root veggies like carrots and potatoes.
In rendang, there is a sauce - not a soup - whose sole purpose is to be used to flavor the meet via slow-heated marination. It's considered more of a "dry" curry, which means the sauce is simmered down to a minimum. Because it is so distilled, the sauce sticks to the meat. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 17:50, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What the hell? I know it is wrong. But anyway, don't remove rendang as a stew in the list. 2001:448A:11A3:1039:C13F:1A6A:78BB:F566 (talk) 06:45, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unclear language

What does "Declined by household helps" mean? Tantalising! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.40.209.196 (talk) 06:20, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Typo

Hi, I'm a new editor, just want a typo fixed in line four. It should say, "Rendang is often described as a rich ... Dryadude (talk) 11:58, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. @Dryadude: Thanks for pointing this out. –Austronesier (talk) 12:12, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jawi name for rendang

Can anyone add the Jawi name for rendang? 2001:448A:11A5:1F2C:F087:E54E:60DF:F342 (talk) 14:29, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Etymological Section

@Austronesier you can find an etymological section on all major pages like ramen, kimchi, curry, ceviche. I have included sources in the statement—very high-quality ones, in fact. The word rendang has been traced back to the 16th century. Just because it doesn’t fit the “popular” narrative doesn’t mean it should be excluded. MrCattttt (talk) 23:51, 3 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Gusti Asnan’s theory is a theory, not facts

Based on Asnan, Gusti (2021), SEJARAH RENDANG Disajikan pada “Semiloka Penyusunan Naskah Akademik Randang Menuju Warisan Dunia” (PDF) by Gusti Asnan himself published by Andalas University and Rahman, Fadly (2020), "Tracing the origins of rendang and its development", Journal of Ethnic Foods by Fadly Rahman - both works by Indonesian historians - it's important to present Gusti Asnan's arguments as opinions rather than facts. Similarly, Muhammad Nur's theory and Nurmatias's theory. These are theories from different people.

It’s wikipedia policy that Wikipedia should assert facts, not opinions

@Austronesier agree? MrCattttt (talk) 10:11, 5 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think you listed fair and reliable sources for a discussion.
I read the Gusti Asnan document; he did admit the Rendang written record as a dish in Minangkabau context started from the Toorn dictionary (1891), and before that year, his theory was based on his interpretation (which, in my opinion, is applicable to the Malacca theory too since the area of Sumatra-Malacca was flourishing with business trade and cultural exchange between West and East (Portuguese, India, etc.). Audit2020 (talk) 08:21, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
thank you for your comment but beware of Wikipedia’s no original research or personal opinion, whatever not being said by the author, should not been assumed. That’s the reason why this happened in the first place. We do not combine, mix and match different theories into one, all theories should be presented on their own! Cheers! MrCattttt (talk) 13:14, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have simplified and summarised for everyone

Theories:

1. rendang from West Sumatra: Gusti Asnan, Muhammad Nur, Nurmatias (all three suggest different narratives)

2. rendang from Portuguese influence: Fadly Rahman, Janet P. Boileau and Ary Budiyanto

Historical documentation (there are a lot more, but here are the mains):

  1. rendang in malacca sultanate early 16th century - Rahman, Fadly (2020), "Tracing the origins of rendang and its development", Journal of Ethnic Foods
  2. rendang etymological traced in 17th-century Malay-Dutch dictionary - G. Hoogervorst, Tom (2024), "Seventeenth-century Malay wordlists and their potential for etymological scholarship", Journal of the Humanities of Indonesia
  3. rendang in local documentation in 17-18th century - AZIZ, ABD. RAZAK (2018), HIBRIDISASI MASAKAN MELAYU: KAJIAN KES DI KUALA LUMPUR and Johari, Khir (2021), The Food of Singapore Malays: Gastronomic Travels Through the Archipelago, Marshall Cavendish Editions, ISBN 9789814841924 (only physical)
  4. rendang in Malay royal banquet in 1873 - Johari, Khir (2021), The Food of Singapore Malays: Gastronomic Travels Through the Archipelago, Marshall Cavendish Editions, ISBN 9789814841924 (only physical)
  5. first trace of rendang in Minang documentation in 1891 - Asnan, Gusti (2021), SEJARAH RENDANG Disajikan pada “Semiloka Penyusunan Naskah Akademik Randang Menuju Warisan Dunia” (PDF)
  6. rendang recipe in The Mem’s Own Cookery Book (1920) - "The Curry Chronicles".

let me know your thoughts too @Audit2020, since we are the ones who actively in the Talk Page.

Don't WP:CANVASS editors who haven't edited the article at all. I will outline in due time (WP:NODEADLINE) my objections to the de-Minang-ization that you try to portray as "NPOV" when it actually creates WP:false balance. –Austronesier (talk) 07:26, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
there should not be "Minang-ized" portrayal of the page at all in the first place. It's wikipedia policy to provide neutral point of view and to assert facts, not opinions or theories. That is the point of this discussion.
Also, please assume good faith. In the spirit of wikipedia, can't wait to hear your thoughts (and other users)! MrCattttt (talk) 13:08, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have never not assumed good faith. I have said – and I will double down on it whenever necessary – that you have engaged in utterly bad practice against the "spirit of Wikipedia" (= collaborative work) by stubbornly, or rather: obtusely, insisting on your additions instead of gaining consensus in the face of disagreement. You have a track records of edit warring and the only thing that has saved you (and @Sayurasem) from not being blocked (again) was the full lock of the page; the choice of the tool to prevent disruption from Wikipedia lies in the hand of the admin who handles an intolerable situation.
So what's good and what's wrong about what you've been trying to add here? In a nutshell: Fadly Rahman's article Tracing the origins of rendang and its development is definitely a welcome inclusion here. But while you emphasize that it's a work by an Indonesian historian, the actual significance lies in the fact that it is the only scholarly work in an international peer-reviewed journal that covers Rendang as its main topic. So whatever we want to say about Rendang, it is the preferred choice of model for this article.
Your last version[1] indeed cites Fadly Rahman quite heavily, but while Rahman writes that in present times, Rendang is "identified with the Minangkabau culinary culture", you build a completely different false balance narrative: Rendang is [...] popular across Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and the Philippines [...] a signature dish in Southeast Asian Muslim cuisines — Malay, Minangkabau [...], and Moro.... Fadly Rahman is very clear about his hypothesis of the ultimate origins of Rendang with the introduction of Portuguese cooking techniques in Sumatra and the Malay Peninsula, but is also clear about the current popularity and distribution of Rendang as a direct result of the Minangkabau migration or rantau culture (referred to as "wandering" by Fadly Rahman). So your version of the lede and the excessive details of attestations in Classical Malay texts reads as if it primarily aims at what I have called the de-Minang-ization of the dish that completely distorts what is written in the source that you yourself have cited most heavily. –Austronesier (talk) 14:58, 15 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I put the Fadly Rahman conclusion in his journal here for others to see too:
---
Like the overseas culture inherent in the Minangkabau tradition, rendang tradition also has a long overseas trail in culinary history in the Malay region and West Sumatra. The history of rendang cannot be separated from the historical setting of the Malacca Strait for centuries as a strategic geographical area for Malay people in establishing political, economic, social, and cultural relations with various nations. Not surprisingly, foreign culinary influences from India, Islam (from Arabic, India, and Persia), and Europe helped shape hybrid culinary styles in West Sumatra.
After the Portuguese conquered Malacca in 1511, gradually the Iberian cultural influence also developed in various regions around Malacca Strait complementing the preexisting Indian and Islamic culinary influences. The influence of Portuguese cuisine then blends harmoniously with Malay cuisine, especially in West Sumatra and generally in Malay regions. Rendang which has now been identified with the Minangkabau culinary culture is characteristic in terms of processing and it is actually very identical to the tradition of food preservation in Portuguese culinary culture.
(My comment: Until this part the author agreed Rendang did not originate solely from Minangkabau culture, but rather evolved through a mix of foreign influence (Malay, Islam, Indian, Portuguese) and local adaptation.
In the Minangkabau culinary culture, rendang is not the food name, but rather the derivation of dwelling, which is a term to refer to the technique of preserving food in covered cauldron with a little water. Obviously, this is very suitable with the preservation technique in Portuguese culinary culture. The tradition of merandang is increasingly attached to the Minangkabau culture in line with the development of wandering culture since the eighteenth century. Rendang as a durable food is clearly needed by Minangkabau wanderers who migrate to various regions by taking a long time of travel for the purpose of trading, studying, and preaching. Wandering culture has become a connecting chain in attaching rendang as an important identity for the life of Minangkabau people.
(My comment: I agreed that Rendang was popularized by Minangkabau due to wandering culture but the dish itself is not originally Minangkabau but originated from broader Malay culinary tradition, influence by Indian spices, Islamic dietary laws, and Portuguese preservation techniques.)
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Hence, the current Rendang article (1) exhibits certain biases by predominantly highlighting the Minangkabau origin and not sufficiently acknowledging the multifaceted cultural influence that have shaped the dish especially in the History section compared to the last edit by @MrCattttt (2). Audit2020 (talk) 12:27, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Austronesier@Audit2020 See, as I mentioned in the beginning, there is no compelling reason for your and Sayurasem's reverts. Your only concerned about the de-minang-ization of the page, which has never been supported by any scholarly sources. lmao. As per the title of this section, do you people agree that gusti asnan's theory should fall under fringe theories since this is an idea that is not broadly supported by scholarship and has been debunked?. As per Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Giving "equal validity" can create a false balance we should not imply that “theory” be presented along with commonly accepted mainstream scholarship as if they were of equal validity? MrCattttt (talk) 23:42, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I will repeat here what I have written in @Hemiauchenia's talk page, where you delusionally cited me in support of your revision.
Yes, Fadly Rahman's article (the only scholarly source from an international journal that treats Rendang as its main topic) is a perfect source for bringing nuance to the article, but I fully object to the way you distort its content to downplay the role of the modern, Minangkabau-origin version of rendang that is the source of all kinds of rendang whereever they are served now (including Malaysia). Fadly Rahman is very explicit about it: The widespread culture of wandering among the Minangkabau people in the nineteenth century unwittingly helped spread their unique rendang to each region they visited. With no exception, Negeri Sembilan in Malaysia, which since the fifteenth century has been a migration destination of Minangkabau people, has also received the influence of rendang. I see nothing of this in your version. –Austronesier (talk) 09:53, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Minangkabau-origin version of rendang that is the source of all kinds of rendang whereever they are served now (including Malaysia) - I believed this is only your opinion since it is not mentioned in the journal. If not, how you would like to explain the continuous existence of Rendang dish on 1500, 1600, 1700 and 1800 century in the historical record?
The widespread culture of wandering among the Minangkabau people in the nineteenth century unwittingly helped spread their unique rendang to each region they visited. With no exception, Negeri Sembilan in Malaysia, which since the fifteenth century has been a migration destination of Minangkabau people, has also received the influence of rendang. - We can put this in Theory from Sumatra/Minangkabau or Popularization section in @MrCattttt version
Please also take note that Fadly mentioned this in his final conclusion:
The history of rendang cannot be separated from the historical setting of the Malacca Strait for centuries as a strategic geographical area for Malay people in establishing political, economic, social, and cultural relations with various nations. Audit2020 (talk) 23:58, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Audit2020@Austronesier@Hemiauchenia good, we agree that Fadly Rahman's journal is indeed a good source.
To answer your @Austronesier question, Fadly Rahman wrote The widespread culture of wandering among the Minangkabau people in the nineteenth century unwittingly helped spread "their unique rendang" to each region they visited. and not
"Minangkabau-origin version of rendang that is the source of all kinds of rendang whereever they are", so, don’t be delusional. "their unique rendang" here means
"minang-style rendang" served in Minang restaurant.
do you purposely ignored the next sentence? The rendang influence as a result of the meeting of Malays and Portuguese in the seventeenth century is not impossible to spread and shape a common of Malay cuisine culture with their characteristics which has scattered in Malacca Strait.
clearly rendang has already in Malaysia before the nineteenth century. whatever you required me to write is definitely your own personal opinion not Fadly Rahman. Peace.
so are we good now? MrCattttt (talk) 03:47, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi All, I'm inviting/tagging other editors who have edited Rendang page to notify them about this topic and in case they might want to contribute for some comment or opinion.
Proposed version.
@Grueslayer @Shuipzv3 @Revirvlkodlaku @Daniel Case @Sayurasem @AyyanD @Gunkarta Audit2020 (talk) 05:48, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Audit2020 This discussion aims on the inclusion of the scholarly sources mentioned above and to remove the fringe theories in the current version. The inclusion of the above sources have been agreed by all users currently in this section. Please do not prolong the discussion. If necessary create a separate section. MrCattttt (talk) 04:47, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Allikas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rendang
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